ameyam

Bille,

with a standard cam you will have trouble keeping the thing in the imagefinder. RC airplanes fly too fast for a standard video camera. I would recommend you borrow one of the superzoom cameras (you know, the ones that look like DSLRs) and a good camera operator. Best to use the viewfinder rather than the LCD as it keeps handshake to a minimum

Ameyam

ameyam

By the way, what prop are you guys using on the dle20? I had a 16x8 MAS in and it had a lot of speed but not enough punch. I have put in a 16x6 for now. 17x6 is just too big

Ameyam

jstanton

My Feedback: (14)

I have 3 DLE-20's and I have found a wood 17x6 prop to be the best for the way I fly. I use a Xoar 17x6 when I can find one or a APC 17x6 if a wood 17x6 is not around.

I just finished breaking in my APC S91a 2 stroke engine and I am getting 10500 RPM with a EVO 14x6 prop. That is pretty good for a 2 stroke 91.. I am really looking forward to this weekend when I can take this Extra 330s to the field and put her threw the ringers The plane weigh's in at 8 1/4lbs so I should get pretty good performance.

jstanton

My Feedback: (14)

I have 3 DLE-20's and I have found a wood 17x6 prop to be the best for the way I fly. I use a Xoar 17x6 when I can find one or a APC 17x6 if a wood 17x6 is not around.

I just finished breaking in my APC S91a 2 stroke engine and I am getting 10500 RPM with a EVO 14x6 prop. That is pretty good for a 2 stroke 91.. I am really looking forward to this weekend when I can take this Extra 330s to the field and put her threw the ringers The plane weigh's in at 8 1/4lbs so I should get pretty good performance.

ameyam

My problem is the stock landing gear keeps bending out due to bouncy landings which in turn are due to excessive speed I cant seem to scrub off. I have had several ground strikes with the MAS 16X8 thats why I am persisting with a GRP prop. MAS doesnt have 17x6 in GRP

Ameyam

BilleFly

YES 17 X 6 is the True Call !!!
I use a 17 X 6 VESS. It's good for nearly 14lb Thrust.

ameyam, try dumping the wheel fairings, and place a really large set of tires on her.

Secondly, go back to my other posts about cupling Ruder & ailerons with elevator & 15% flaps.
don't forget about the wing-tip gates and Expo ! Your reluctant ; but i can't help Ya if your complaining
about your stock settings. They "Ain't" gonna work on this plane at our weight.

Thanks for the video advice !!

Here is More on the DLE-20 Search This : Flying Giants , Giant Scale Planes , Gas Engines , DLE-20




Bille

wingboz

Why don't you JUST use the prop that is right for the plane. You are making something easy real hard. Just use the engine size and the right prop that the model calls for!!!! If you want something bigger, then go to the model shop and buy a larger plane, then you can maybe use the bigger engine along with the larger prop.

Isn't that simple enought !!!! DO THIS and go to the flying field and enjoy our self!!!!
Winbboz

ameyam

Actually, my issue is with the throttle reacton of the DLE20. I initially found that in the approach, if I add a click of power, the airplane simply flies off. With the tach, I had 4000rpm at just 20% stick. We ended up adding nearly 100% expo to get the throttle response to somewhat linear. Now it doesnt slow down. I start the downwind leg of the approach with about 30% power and then once I am into the wind approaching the strip I go down to 20%. I observe if it is loosing height and add power as required. Its the last foot of the approach where I cant add power that causes the bounce

My 9C doesnt have a direct throttle curve, only expos. A better TX is here (8FG) and will be debuted this weekend.

The stock gear with the Extra is very soft for this weight. My engine has already shut down a few times after the prop scraped the ground. To add to that, the gear has also moved out of whack as it was twisted in one landing and the airplane is nose heavy making it nose down after landing. I am flying the old version of the airplane. 17x6 wodd would break if I prop-striked it.

I have HK's CF 20cc gears but arent they more brittle than aluminium? I have ordered larger CF gear, it will reach any day

BTW, there are very few 3D capable airplanes out there that can take a DLE20. The smallest is the AW Extra 300 30cc which is just a couple of incles larger. Thats waiting in the wings

Ameyam

BilleFly

I Do Not want something Bigger.

Lots of guys are putting the DLE-20 in a 60" profile ; I Can't Stand those type planes .
I DO like my Extra though ; the Perfect size airplane !!!

Even With the beefed up sheer-web, sheeting in front of the spar and rib-caps, along with
the glass-job on the firewall and landing gear box ; my Extra came in at a smidgen more than
1/3 lb more than stock. the sheeting & tip gates made it MORE than capable of handling that
Lil extra weight.

If Ya Look, the DLE fit's just FINE in the stock engine cowling. You may think i made something
HARD, that shoulda bin Easy ; but I Really enjoyed myself while doing it. And enjoying myself
is kinda important to me ; just because you don't like building then don't Bash me because
i enjoy making stuff.

It Didn't cost much money to Mod my plane. What i Did spend making it DLE ready, i'll MORE
than make up in the cost of Nitro fuel. What's that going for now $20+ a gal and i can go through a gal in
one day . My unleaded gas is $3.80 a gal + the OIL and (ameyam) and myself are getting 18 to 20 min flight
time on a 10oz fuel tank.

The Waco Biplane in the back-ground ..
It's about to get a new covering job ; along with Flaperons for the inboard section on the wings. Add maybe
4oz weight but it will land Way slower with flaps, and Look good doing it. Will also fly better with full span
ailerons.


Bille

dmoody19

My Feedback: (24)

Friend I take it that you do not either have this plane or at the least you do not fly it 3d or even simple patterns? I mean you no disrespect at all so please understand that people buy this plane and others like it for several reasons that you haven't considered. One is that the .60 airframe is fine with a .60 2 stroke nitro (which sells here for around 14 dollars a gallon) as long as all you want to do is take off, go in a circle and land (yet the plane is still a floater). For those that want more than just flying in a circle the cool thing about this plane is that with a few simple and minor mods it can handle a engine twice the size (in power) than the .60. What that does is allows for a flyer to make this plane really come alive. The 76 pages of discussion on this plane proves one thing.. it is versatile and worth taking the time to make it become loveable in 3d. WHile reading these 76 pages I have learned a tremendous amount not just about hte plane but a huge variety of possible engine and propellor combinations. In the future I may go with a DLE 20 myself since I have learned that my Webra 1.20 speed is too much for the machine. If there were room I could be running an 18 size prop with no problem but would (and do ) have issues with bleeding off speed as well as issues with the prop and ground strikes if I don't get feathered out perfectly as it is with a 17.
Why go to a bigger plane and end up with the same issues there for making it perform like we want this guy to perform? THis size is easy to transport, flys great and will do anything you ask of it as long as you reinforce it in the right spots... (hence 76 pages on this little plane).
I am assuming you are new to flying these types?
Just reading ameyam and BillieFly and the way they are working things out can teach you much. Not to mention the cool reality that they life a half a world apart. The answer to your original question is found in the taking time to study what is going on here and why. If you aren't interested then just stay silent since this specific thread is about making this particular plane work better than just "okay". SO... why not just go with the design recommendations?
Well... because we don't have to and others like us want to learn how to fly better and make more out of what we have...

BTW.... BIlliefly.. your waco should be fun. Ihave one on my wish list for this year...I have the great planes Stearman with a 1.25 at the moment and it has the potential to do some nice flying as well.. Ijust need to figure a larger engine and all the stuff needed to make sure it handles it well.Just not quite finished with building it. I also just bought a ASP 5 cyl radial for a Top Flight p-47 giant scale that I am building from a kit. Should be a blast as well...
I have a brand new DLE 55 that I need to put into something since I went the radial way instead of the dle.... Any suggestions?
Have a great one

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________
Dave

BilleFly

THANKS : Dave !!
Couldn't have said it Better myself !!!!!

OK PROP STRIKES :

You guys DO realize that you Can place a balsa spacer with hard-wood dowels, a bit
bigger than the bolt holes to keep the balsa from crushing. Then go with larger bolt's,
that are made from Nylon, so they Snap-Off on a Really Bad landing.

You can easily get 1/2 to 3/4 inch, (12.7 to 19.05mm) by doing that !!

Bille

ameyam

Or we can put in large gears. I mean LARGE. The post just delivered 50cc CF LG from HK that are positively massive. I ordered two so I could use one on my 30cc AW Extra but thats a different story. These are heavy and 4mm thick. I will take the stock off to weigh them against the CF ones and inform tomorrow. Getting a bit late and I need the sleep (If I hadnt proofread this, you guys wouldnt have understood a word)

Ameyam

Wrangler1

Hello people, last saturday i went to fly again, took the just repaired Extra and after i flew my other 2 planes (TRAINER AND A T34 MENTOR) i decided it was time for the extra. I went with a very smooth take off and climb then some flybys and loops, when it was time to land i noticed it was more windy than when i tooked off. I tried 4 times to land but as soon the mains touch ground, the plane went to air again. ggrrr. So i tried one more and this time i came as near the stalling speed i can, but as soon the mains touch the asphalt the new CF landing gear separated itself from the gear space causing an immediate belly land.

This is the third time that this thing is happening to me. So i'm asking for someone to help me with new ideas on how to reinforces the area were the landing gear is attached to the fuselage.
photo of the damage attach.

ameyam

What make CF gear were you using?

I reinforced the original LG Block with tristock. Its difficult to have a single piece of tristock go through the two small holes in the rear bulkhead. Also, the block is not exactly 90 Deg to the bulkhead, dont ask me why. So I cut pieces just long enough to go through the holes, applied a thick paste of 30 min epoxy and filler and then placed it inside. I also tacked it in place with CA so it wouldnt move while the epoxy dried. Further, I fibreglassed over the block from outside. That reinforced it quite a bit. When I had a deadstick last week and landed downwind, it was the fastest landing I have ever had. I had only a few meters before the end of the field after the wheels touched so I ruddered hard left. This is a 4.2kg airplane (9lb), it completely flattened the stock aluminium gear. But the LG Block remained intact

Dont know whether you can do something similar though

Ameyam

Wrangler1

Hi Ameyam, thanks for the info. It's there any chance that you can post some photos so i can have a better idea of what you did?

ameyam

There is little chance- the holes in the back bulkhead behind the LG Block are just big enough to put my fingers in. I will make something in cad and try to explain

Ameyam

jstanton

My Feedback: (14)

I did the maiden flight of my Phoenix Extra 330S last weekend. I have a ASP S91A 2 stroke engine and it had plenty of power for this plane. My Phoenix Extra is the new one where the CG is at 100mm. I set my CG at the 100mm make and the plane balanced perfectly. I am getting 10500rpm with an evo 14x6 prop and the plane has unlimited verticle I know some are using a DLE-20 in this plane and I have 3 DLE-20's but after flying this plane with a ASP S91A I think the DLE-20 is just a little to much engine for this plane I mean with the extra added weight of the DLE-20 the plane will not be as aerobatic as with a good 91 glow 2 stroke[] Just my 2 cents since I have both of these engines. The DLE-20 is better suited for a plane in the 70" area like the GP Revoler-70

Wrangler1

Hi Guys, i was checking my extra for the next weekend fly, but i found (somehow) the two wing screws of my right wing are lost. So i'm trying to find some nylon screws identical to the original ones, but i can't find none. Is there someone that had the same problem and how did it fixed it?.

I want an easy to screw and unscrew by hand.

Thanks people.

BilleFly

Reinforce the landing gear but use nylon bolts, better it snaps off in a screw-up !

Actually better to make it stop nosing Up on landing. Can the wheels go Back 1/2 Inch ;
maybe turn the landing gear arround , change the angle of the bulkhead ...

This places the center of effort from the tires, closer to the CG on the Fuce ; hopefully
stop that nose-up thing on landing. Don't go more than 1/2" to start !

Bille

min$2crash

Hey Wrangler 1, just reading your post now, sorry about the delayed response. If you can find a metric nylon bolt to match the thread in the wing's blind nut, which is an M6 x 1.25mm pitch when I measure mine, Standard coarse pitch is (M6 x 1.0). But I checked it twice with my caliper, 8 threads in 10mm = 1.25mm pitch,in other words- coarser than coarse.
If you can find a nylon bolt and matching nuts, you could thread and tighten/glue one or two nuts all the way to the head of the screw and leave it there for easy gripping when you put the plane together. That nut is tightened against the bolt head, and will stay there forever, esp if you use a little glue on it.

PS mine came with a couple of extra wing bolts, check your box/hardware bag....

PPS, I found that the bolts tended to work loose easily after the first 20 flights. I drilled a hole in the finger tab off to one side and lock wire the bolts to the airframe after wing mounting it to keep them from coming loose. That way I do not have to overtighten the bolts to keep them from unscrewing in flight. I used to lockwire the front bolt to the rear bolt on each side, but that was too tedious. Now I just lockwire the rear bolts to the crossbar and if the front bolts come loose, I just shake them out of the fuselage later. One rear bolt is sufficient, if not perfect, as the rear bolts are further from the tube and have better mechanical advantage.
Now, if that one bolt came loose, you'd need a new plane...[]

PPPS last resort: knock out the nuts in the wing and replace with a T-nut of a thread size that you CAN find a nylon bolt for! You will need to make an access hole in the root rib for access to the T-nut which is lightly glued in. I knocked one T-nut loose by mistake, storing the wing bolts in the nut and bumped the bolt, so then I had to make a hole for epoxying the factory (brown plastic/nylon) T-nut back in place.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...74/key_/tm.htm Post #1835 shows a picture of the 5/8" hole that I drilled, no problems in >30 flights since then. That was barely big enough to remount the T-nut, you can go bigger if you have fat fingers! The root rib is pretty thick, ~5mm so a hole there is not a big deal.

min$2crash

Wrangler1- your march post...
I had the same problem until I started using 10-15mm of spoilerons (both ailerons up, or negative flaperons) on a switch for landing. That keeps it from having that tendency to nose up as it slows down for a landing.
This makes the wing act like it has less area, so it lands a little faster and is much less sensitive to cross winds especially as it slows down.
You can also use a bit of down elevator, but that just feels WRONG at 1 ft altitude!!!

PKa

I have an issue with my extra. Pretty much stock setup with a 91 os FS. The issue is when I pull back into a tighter loop, the plane just seems to loose all sense of direction. The elevator servos seem to be set perfect on the ground, the travel Is uniform, but in flight everything falls apart in a tighter loop. When I try a wider diameter loop, the plane will not track straight, it is pulling off line. My initial thought is to switch out the elevator servos and see what happens. I. Am running a Futaba 7C. And the servos are futaba standard digital 3151? Any thoughts as to what is going on?

nrad2000

Pka,

I have the same engine as you w/ pump. My extra is set up stock. For the longest time my plane did weird things when looping, especially when coming out of a loop. Extra would drop right wing. Had an expert buddy fly my plane and he said there was really nothing wrong with it except it does some unexpected moves during a loop. He tried both inside and outside loop. Same result. He suggested since my cylinder head is on one side that perhaps its not balanced side to side. Sure enough when he picked it up it tilted towards the cylinder. I ended up placing bunch of weights on the tip of the wing (opposite of the cylinder head). Walla, plane now tracks much better in all orientation.

Jimmy

min$2crash

PKa:
You are not the first to have these problems....there are many possibilities.
How heavy is your plane? What elevator throw? If you have a heavy enough plane, and enough elevator throw, it will snap out when you pull it....
In a snap roll, the plane is jerked up violently, and can lose some of the rudder/fin effectiveness and yaw stability. Which is why a good snap looks so cool.

If it is only 7.5 lb and your elevator is about 20 degrees or less, it shouldn't snap out of a 20 foot radius loop, IMHO.
My plane is unusually light at 6lb 10 oz and doesn't snap out at ~30 deg of elevator. Instead it loops on about a 15 foot radius.

In that case I would look at what nrad2000 said for sure.... lateral balance is probably the most neglected setup detail when building a plane or modding a plane. Another front runner would be wing incidence: differences of a degree or more, which could cause one wing to stall sporadically, depending on wind, airspeed, etc.
The instructions in my new one (yep finally gave the original one a terminal dirt-bath on Monday!) suggest that you check lateral balance by hanging the bird upside-down using a string running from the tailwheel wire (pivot) to the crankshaft..... I would suggest that you start there and see if it helps. Another check for lateral balance and Front-rear balance simultaneously is to put a screw eye right at the desired F/R CG, right in the L/R center and hang it from that point upside down. Maynardrupp had to add a popsicle stick to his so that there was something to attach the screw-eye to.
If you have a lateral balance problem, flipping inverted is also a good test if you are comfortable flying upside down. A "Left Heavy" plane will have some right aileron trimmed into it to hold up the extra weight. When you flip it over, and try to fly straight, the heavy Left wing is now the right wing, and the compensating right aileron will make it roll off of horizontal repeatedly to the right..... seeming out of trim.

Also, leakage of one side's airfoil surfaces at the aileron or elevator joint.... i.e. RH side tight, LH side has a 3/32" gap..... could cause sporadic response in an up elevator condition. One wing might stall sooner.

I seem to remember Maynardrupp talking about this ca. 2010 on his .75 powered Phoenix Extra- I think keeping a little power over the top helped maintain direction. Start reading here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...57/key_/tm.htm
thru at least page 59... notice Da Rock's comment about limiting throws to avoid snapping out. Reducing weight helps as well.....

Some other things to think about.... is this a new type of plane or flying for you? I remember in early hovering practice I used to trim the rudder for "no rudder" hovering... but that rudder setting made the loops kind of wonky!

PKa

Thanks for the reply. I checked lateral balance and found it out quite a bit. I tried the wings & fuselage individually and found the wings fairly close, but the fuse was noticeably heavy on one side. I wil try and move the battery to compensate and hopefully can avoid adding any weight.
I will start here and let you know how it reacts. Thanks again.