monkeygutz69

torombolo, check this out... I have had the Seagull Super Decathlon NIB for almost a year. Had never heard of Phoenix Models till a month ago.I hear their Decathlon is way lighter.The Seagull Models are reported to be heavier than most. Before I got rid of My Saito 100, I'd contemplated putting that badboy on the Seagull SD!!!!!!. Was told it would probably rip the wings off of it. I have a Saito 82 from My Funtana 40, but decided on a Super Tigre .51 for the SD. If I like it ( I think it is beautiful) and the way it flies, I will maybe make it into a hot rod.I was hoping at one time to make it a 3D Machine. Oh, didn't mean to hijack this thread but all Decathlons must be flown properly to survive...Regards, TJ
p.s... good luck on the storm..we have lots of wind and rain for days here

preparation_h

Looking for a little help here.

I've got an issue or maybe it's just my lack of knowledge about how this planes reacts at low speed/stall speed. In level flight, with minimal power to stay afloat, when it starts to stall IT PITCHES UP!!! In past experience (trainers, ultrasport, chipmunk) the planes I've had have always pitched down when stalls approach.

Is this a balance issue or just characteristics of this plane?

Much Thanks!

playntraffic

Sounds like mine. Nose pitches up and the left wing drops. I am a tad tail heavy and I like it that way. How are your landings? Does your tail drop when you land? If so you might be a little tail heavy.

The trainers and high wing planes that I have just mush forward in a stall and then pick up airspeed. The stall you describe is pretty typical of aerobatic planes. Some are better than others.

preparation_h

Yeah landings is where the problem exists, try to slow down, nose pitches up, then I get in all sorts of trouble. Do you think moving some weight forward would help? I think the only thing I coud move is the receiver, but after thinking about it, even with it full of fuel it manages to do this.

playntraffic

Check your CG again. It is difficult to build this plane tail heavy. I had to add weight to the tail. I am running a 90 two stroke.

Move weight to get your GC near the recommended. Go on the nose heavy side to be safe.

If you are still having the same problem then check your ailerons.
Are they both level with the wing? If they droop down like flapperons then you can have a pitching. The only other thing I can think of is wing incidence and since this is an ARF, I doubt that's it.

gdryer

I have ordered the Extra 330 with a Rimfire 50-65-450 per the suggested e-conversion in this thread. Prior to the model arriving I wish to order a wing bag. Can someone tell me the three dimensions of half a wing.

Thanks

monkeygutz69

gdryer,
Root: 16-3/4 in.
Tip: 8-3/4 in
Length: 28 in
Thick: 2 1/2

gdryer

Thanks much for the numbers. I will report in when I start the build.

skip1320

Hello,does anyone know the wing area of this extra,thanks

monkeygutz69

skip1320, yep... 831 sq.in.
Regards, TJ

monkeygutz69

gdryer, Kool..I still have not gotten to Mine yet. Looking forward to it though. keep us up on Your progress,and if there is any way I can help, feel free to ask. Regards,TJ

skip1320

Hello,can anyone give me the bare airframe weight,w/gear and hardware,trying to get auw before buying,engine is on heavy side so want to be sure,thanks

monkeygutz69

skip1320, go to post 308... You should be able to find all needed info... Regards, TJ

skip1320

Sorry,found weight on prior post,i am looking at 8.2 auw w/gasser,dry13lbs thrust,any sugestions would be great,i will go back and look for heaviest auw and performance again,thanks. P.S.tork roll?

gdryer

Hello Electron;

I received my Extra in great shape. This certainly is rather complete ARF. I also bought the same Rimfire motor and motor mount that you used. I was wondering how many degrees of down and right thrust did you set with respect to the firewall?

Crashtruk

My Extra flies perfect with a ST G23 up front. I had to move the RX battery as far back as was humanly possible (right up near the tail) and still had to put lots of lead up the back to make her slightly tail heavy ( I don't know how much, just some till it balanced). It flys really well and has way too much power. I spend most of the time under half throttle. I did have to get rid of a fair bit of the downthrust that is built into the firewall. When I chopped the throttle she climbed sharply, it now has 1/2 a degree of downthrust. I also have a tiny bit of up elevator mixed in with the rudder to stop the plane turning away from the canopy during knife edge flight. I find it interesting how some folks seem to sweat about weight. Ok sure a light plane flys better but some guys I know left off the wheel pants to save weight. Is a little bit of weight really that important. I have no idea how much my Extra weighs, but I know it flys well. I love it

cmoulder

Some questions about this model:

What are the diameter and length of the wing tube?

Are the control surface horns already installed?

Will an OS .91FX mounted at 90 degrees require cutting the cowl for engine head clearance?

playntraffic

Bob:

What are the diameter and length of the wing tube?
3/4" O.D. x 19 1/8"

Are the control surface horns already installed?
Control surfaces are pre-hinged with pinned hinges. The horns and linkages are not installed.

Will an OS .91FX mounted at 90 degrees require cutting the cowl for engine head clearance?
Most likely yes. But, you can mount at the stock 270 degrees and the head will be hidden and the stock exhaust should fit in the channel. Just mount it in the stock location and you should be fine. In the attached photo you can see that using the stock motor mount location everything fits inside the cowl nicely. I have a small cutout for the glow igniter and a rubber exhaust diverter keeps the plane clean.

cmoulder

Thanks for the info! Nice looking plane you've got, clean and squared away.[8D]

I have a CF tube from a Fliton Extra that I think will work. I will find out when the model arrives in the brown truck Monday or Tuesday.

I have the OS .91 and a Pitts muffler that I am hoping to use. Would be nice to get the engine and muffler all under the cowl. I also have the stock muffler and haven't decided yet. Man, that stock muffler is huge.

Just wondering about the horns because I would like to position them myself, so it's good to know they're not pre-installed. The control surface hinges look pretty good right out of the box.

Thinking about making a CF joiner for the elevator halves and using just one servo for that, probably a HS-5645, and do a direct link on the rudder and not the pull-pull. I've done pull-pull and just prefer direct linkages.

gdryer

Phoenix Extra 330 Electric Conversion

I have just completed the build of my Extra for electric flight. I hope to fly at the end of the week assuming that the weather cooperates.

The electric conversion was straightforward and the only issues that I had were general problems with the ARF.

Per Electron’s suggestion I used the Rimfire 50-65-450KV motor. Other major components used were:

Electrifly Large motor mount (aluminum)
Hyperion Titan 80 Amp Speed Controller
Hyperion CoolBEC
JR R790 Receiver
4 - JR DS821 Servos
1 - Hitec 5625MG Servo (rudder)
4 - 6 inch Servo Extensions
1 - 12 inch Servo Extension
1 - 6 inch Server Y Adapter
8 - ¼ inch Rare Earth Magnets (canopy)
Heavy Duty Switch (receiver and servos)
Deans Plug (shunt to power motor)
6S – 4100 mah LIPO Battery

Total weight: 101.5 oz, 2885g (126 oz, 3575g with battery)
Static test with APC 15x8E Propeller: 58 amps, 1240 watts


The only issues that I had were that the wing tube was about ¼ inch too long and too tight of a fit in the wing. I needed to shorten the aluminum pipe and sand the tube in the wings a bit.

I also found the servo linkage hardware a little suspect. I decided instead to use a metal rod threaded at one end to a threaded clevis and a soldered clevis at the other end. I then covered the rod with a carbon fiber tube to make it a little stiffer. I used this method for the two elevator and two aileron servos. I used the supplied hardware for the pull-pull rudder.

The blue stripes did not line up with the cowling. This was easily fixed by repositioning the covering on the fuselage with my Monokote iron.

I changed the blind nuts for the landing gear to ¼-20 and fastened the gear with nylon bolts. I prefer to have the bolts as the point of failure rather than the bottom of the plane. I upsized all the wheels to accommodate our grass field. Wheel pants have also been an issue at our field.

After an initial balance test with the 6S-4100 battery I decided to move the rudder servo further back. This also made access to the rear wing bolts easier. I also built a reward extension to the tray that would normally hold the fuel tank. The plywood was slotted for the Velcro to hold down the battery.

I enlarged the hole in the firewall to force more air over the batteries. I also opened up a hole on the bottom rear of the fuselage to let the air out.

Instead of bolts for the canopy I instead used rare earth magnets at the four corners (eight magnets in all). This should be sufficient to hold the canopy in place and a lot quicker to change the battery.

Overall this conversion was quite easy. I like this model because it has a removable canopy and there was a good place for the battery. I can’t wait to fly.

Crashtruk

What did you not like about the wing tube that came with the plane? You should have no problem getting the muffler inside the cowl. there is a big channel in the fuse for it. I have a ST 2300 mounted at 270* with a stock muffler and it all fits nicley.
Great flying plane

cmoulder

Turns out the Fliton tube diameter was a bit too big, so I won't be using that. (It is a lot lighter in weight than the aluminum tube.)

The cowl would likely have to be cut to accommodate the head of the OS .91, so I will also go with the stock engine position and use the stock muffler. I had doubted that the big muffler would fit, but that is indeed a generous channel in the fuse. Now that's a first!

So I will have to make only a small cutout for the front of the muffler and a little hole for the engine needle valve. I like to keep cowl cutting to an absolute minimum!

I'm probably going to keep it pretty much stock. I even like the stock control linkages, which is rather rare (at least for me).

gdryer

Phoenix Maiden Flight (Electric)

It was beautiful weather this afternoon so I took the Extra out for the maiden flight. Sorry no video but there was nobody available to film.

Takeoff was perfect it leapt into the air before I got it to half throttle. Plenty of power in this Rimfire motor. A couple of clicks of elevator and aileron was all that was required. My CG was set a little bit forward of the recommended 120 mm which seemed just about right. Very little down elevator was required for level flight. As little bit of up elevator required for knife edge. I may need to take a bit of down thrust out of the motor but I will wait a few more flights before deciding. I bounced the first landing a little. I put back in about 2100 mah of the 4100 mah battery for a five minute flight.

The second flight I got a little braver. Hovering is easy (at 1/3rd throttle. Harriers are very steady. It mushes forever before a very gentle dip of a wing. This plane will also be great for pattern type maneuvers as it tracks very straight.

This plane is great fun. Hope to get some video on the weekend to share.

cmoulder

Sounds like a very well-mannered, predictable model.

Except for the bad weather and wind forecast for the next couple of days, I could maiden mine tomorrow. Looks as if I will have to wait until Sunday. Mine is nitro, O.S. 91FX.

hamshog

HELP. I JUST BOUGHT ONE ALREADY SET UP WITH A BRAND NEW AX 120. I DID THE CG WITH THE TANK EMPTY AND AT 120 MM BACK IT WAS 6 OZ NOSE HEAVY. I PUT A 6 OZ WEIGHT ON THE TAIL TO CHECK THE BALANCE. FAIRLY NEW AT FLYING WHAT CAN I DO????? I HAVE A NEW AX 75 BUT THAT ISN'T LIGHT ENOUGH TO COMPENSATE FOR THE NOSE WEIGHT.