Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
01-30-2009, 08:47 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
ORIGINAL: cmoulder
Just curious, but why post the manual??
Just curious, but why post the manual??
Usually on Tower the manual is on there for you to download too, but wasn’t for this plane.
02-04-2009, 10:20 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
So I have been working on mine a little at a time.
Few things:
The fuse had a part that was broken loose. Simply glued it back on. (I blame shipping)
There was a rib in one of the wings that was cracked but nothing major.
The covering was a bit loose/wrinkled and in some places where not aligned well, so some time has been taken to make it all look pretty. The covering though seemed to be very friendly to work with. It took some time to find the right heat to get a good flow going.
I am adding in some yellows to the plane because I decided I didn’t want to use many (if any) of the decals. Without the decals everything just looked somewhat bland. I am a rookie at covering so it’s been fun. Well this is actually my first real plane and I wont count the lovely RTF Flyzone Cessna I have nor the 3 Target "Air Hogs"..
As I said I will be using a ST-G90 w/ standard muffler and will probably end up trying either a 15x6 or a 16x5 Zinger prop.
Ruder Servo: Futaba S3305
Alerons/Elevator Servos: Hitec HS-475HB
Few things:
The fuse had a part that was broken loose. Simply glued it back on. (I blame shipping)
There was a rib in one of the wings that was cracked but nothing major.
The covering was a bit loose/wrinkled and in some places where not aligned well, so some time has been taken to make it all look pretty. The covering though seemed to be very friendly to work with. It took some time to find the right heat to get a good flow going.
I am adding in some yellows to the plane because I decided I didn’t want to use many (if any) of the decals. Without the decals everything just looked somewhat bland. I am a rookie at covering so it’s been fun. Well this is actually my first real plane and I wont count the lovely RTF Flyzone Cessna I have nor the 3 Target "Air Hogs"..
As I said I will be using a ST-G90 w/ standard muffler and will probably end up trying either a 15x6 or a 16x5 Zinger prop.
Ruder Servo: Futaba S3305
Alerons/Elevator Servos: Hitec HS-475HB
02-04-2009, 01:40 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hey richlstubbz, Was just readin your post and the props that you want to try will be a little to much for that engine,I am running the O.S. 91FX turning a APC 14x4w, a zinger 14x6 also works well but i seem to prefer the apc.
02-05-2009, 07:24 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
ORIGINAL: FAST-J
Hey richlstubbz, Was just readin your post and the props that you want to try will be a little to much for that engine,I am running the O.S. 91FX turning a APC 14x4w, a zinger 14x6 also works well but i seem to prefer the apc.
Hey richlstubbz, Was just readin your post and the props that you want to try will be a little to much for that engine,I am running the O.S. 91FX turning a APC 14x4w, a zinger 14x6 also works well but i seem to prefer the apc.
I have been going off of a "Real World" ref engine (ST-90 w/ 0% nitro) that has a 14x6 3blade maybe a 14x7 3blade running at about 10.5K RPM at full. I have taken that known ref and tuned it into the RealFlight and modified the engine with a 2 blade prop @ the same RPM. I came up with 15x6 or 16x5 in the same RPM range.
I don’t care for the engine to be a screamer (ideal 10-11k range) though I might end up doing a 15x4 or 16x4 beings "X"x5 is somewhat uncommon, from doing a tower search.
Also 16 may be out of the question too depending on how well it works at our field (I am not to sure what the clearance will look like yet)
I guess the question is what is the RPM’s like on the smaller props?
All is subject to change though and I plan on doing some experiments with it to find out what will work out best.
02-05-2009, 07:45 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Just trying to help! here is what's real! your Super Tigre does not have the power of the O.S., Therefore it will turn even less rpms with the props you say that will work. If you run to big of a prop you will damage the engine and the performance will be poor.
02-05-2009, 08:31 AM
#585
RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hey Rich and FastJ,
One thing that is great about these forums is the opportunity to share info.
I know this thread is about a Phoenix Extra 300 and not engines. But I'm throwing in a couple pennys worth of experience here. My Supre Tigre 90 (the real world reference that Rich mentioned) Turns a 14X7 three blade Master Airscrew and a wooden (forgot which brand zinger top flight) 15X6 two blade at about 9,500 static measured with a tack. running 0% nitro. Using a 14X6 two blade the engine turned in the neighborhood of 10,250ish. Been long enough now I don't remember exactly. My 13X6 two blade ran in excess of 11,000 rpm. What I do know is the 14X6 would not pull my 9lb plane with unlimited vertical. With both the 14X7 three blade and the 15X6 two blade the plane will climb vertical forever, albiet slowly. If I am after speed the 13X6 pulled faster flat and level. As to the load I am putting on my engine, again measured static, I used a temp sensor pointed at the glow plug. The smaller props ran between 290°- 310° were as the 15X6-2 and the 14X7-3 run in the 280° - 300° range.
I will not attempt to say what the OS 91 can or can not due since I do not have one. However, I agree that it is a good engine.
After digging out my notes I found that the RPM numbers I wrote above were 1000 RPM too high[:@]. Everything else is/was correct. The RPM are now correct. I'll be re-testing soon with a test stand set up to measure thrust.
One thing that is great about these forums is the opportunity to share info.
I know this thread is about a Phoenix Extra 300 and not engines. But I'm throwing in a couple pennys worth of experience here. My Supre Tigre 90 (the real world reference that Rich mentioned) Turns a 14X7 three blade Master Airscrew and a wooden (forgot which brand zinger top flight) 15X6 two blade at about 9,500 static measured with a tack. running 0% nitro. Using a 14X6 two blade the engine turned in the neighborhood of 10,250ish. Been long enough now I don't remember exactly. My 13X6 two blade ran in excess of 11,000 rpm. What I do know is the 14X6 would not pull my 9lb plane with unlimited vertical. With both the 14X7 three blade and the 15X6 two blade the plane will climb vertical forever, albiet slowly. If I am after speed the 13X6 pulled faster flat and level. As to the load I am putting on my engine, again measured static, I used a temp sensor pointed at the glow plug. The smaller props ran between 290°- 310° were as the 15X6-2 and the 14X7-3 run in the 280° - 300° range.
I will not attempt to say what the OS 91 can or can not due since I do not have one. However, I agree that it is a good engine.
After digging out my notes I found that the RPM numbers I wrote above were 1000 RPM too high[:@]. Everything else is/was correct. The RPM are now correct. I'll be re-testing soon with a test stand set up to measure thrust.
02-05-2009, 08:35 AM
#586
RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hey Rich,
By the way, I like what you have going with the colors. I still say it needs a bigger Pilot
I can't wait to get __my__hands on the sticks[8D]. Like I said before if it flies as good as everyone says I will have to bite the bullet and buy one[:@].
By the way, I like what you have going with the colors. I still say it needs a bigger Pilot
I can't wait to get __my__hands on the sticks[8D]. Like I said before if it flies as good as everyone says I will have to bite the bullet and buy one[:@].
..
02-05-2009, 09:29 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Even more off topic, but I wish I had enough money and access to the Temp/Humidity Altitude chamber here at work to do some test.
For the tests
I would buy a few OS 91s and a ST 90s and put them in a jig that would measure there thrust inside the chamber.
I would run them at temp ranges from 0-40 deg C (32-104 F). RH% ranges @ 25C: 10-95%. Altitudes ranges 0 ft to 10k ft above sea level. (no idea how high these engines will work in altitudes)
I would also take and mount Thermal Couples in multi locations on the engines to test there temperatures.
I would run 0% - 30% nitro mixes.
Different size and number of blades props.
I would also like to run a long term test to determine durability (might be expensive though, with fuel costs).
Hardest part would be making sure they are running at optimum (not to lean or rich)
I am sure that some tests like this have been done already but I wouldn’t know where to find the data/reviews.
For the tests
I would buy a few OS 91s and a ST 90s and put them in a jig that would measure there thrust inside the chamber.
I would run them at temp ranges from 0-40 deg C (32-104 F). RH% ranges @ 25C: 10-95%. Altitudes ranges 0 ft to 10k ft above sea level. (no idea how high these engines will work in altitudes)
I would also take and mount Thermal Couples in multi locations on the engines to test there temperatures.
I would run 0% - 30% nitro mixes.
Different size and number of blades props.
I would also like to run a long term test to determine durability (might be expensive though, with fuel costs).
Hardest part would be making sure they are running at optimum (not to lean or rich)
I am sure that some tests like this have been done already but I wouldn’t know where to find the data/reviews.
02-05-2009, 12:57 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Great Thread
I have an older Goldberg Extra, very similar in size. It has an OS 1.08 in the nose with a Pitts Muffler and required some lead in the tail just like these. The power is way too much and it will go verticle to almost out of sight, well maybe out of sight even but I have not tried it. Currently my plan is to change out the 1.08 to a Saito 100 and lighten it up a bit.
I'm seriously thinking of buying the Phoenix and putting it on the shelf for the day my thumbs go dumb with the Goldberg. Has anyone here also had a Goldberg and can give a comparison between the two?
Dave
I have an older Goldberg Extra, very similar in size. It has an OS 1.08 in the nose with a Pitts Muffler and required some lead in the tail just like these. The power is way too much and it will go verticle to almost out of sight, well maybe out of sight even but I have not tried it. Currently my plan is to change out the 1.08 to a Saito 100 and lighten it up a bit.
I'm seriously thinking of buying the Phoenix and putting it on the shelf for the day my thumbs go dumb with the Goldberg. Has anyone here also had a Goldberg and can give a comparison between the two?
Dave
02-06-2009, 08:40 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ
Hey Rich and FastJ,
One thing that is great about these forums is the opportunity to share info.
I know this thread is about a Phoenix Extra 300 and not engines. But I'm throwing in a couple pennys worth of experience here. My Supre Tigre 90 (the real world reference that Rich mentioned) Turns a 14X7 three blade Master Airscrew and a wooden (forgot which brand zinger top flight) 15X6 two blade at about 9,500 static measured with a tack. running 0% nitro. Using a 14X6 two blade the engine turned in the neighborhood of 10,250ish. Been long enough now I don't remember exactly. My 13X6 two blade ran in excess of 11,000 rpm. What I do know is the 14X6 would not pull my 9lb plane with unlimited vertical. With both the 14X7 three blade and the 15X6 two blade the plane will climb vertical forever, albiet slowly. If I am after speed the 13X6 pulled faster flat and level. As to the load I am putting on my engine, again measured static, I used a temp sensor pointed at the glow plug. The smaller props ran between 290°- 310° were as the 15X6-2 and the 14X7-3 run in the 280° - 300° range.
I will not attempt to say what the OS 91 can or can not due since I do not have one. However, I agree that it is a good engine.
After digging out my notes I found that the RPM numbers I wrote above were 1000 RPM too high[:@]. Everything else is/was correct. The RPM are now correct. I'll be re-testing soon with a test stand set up to measure thrust.
Hey Rich and FastJ,
One thing that is great about these forums is the opportunity to share info.
I know this thread is about a Phoenix Extra 300 and not engines. But I'm throwing in a couple pennys worth of experience here. My Supre Tigre 90 (the real world reference that Rich mentioned) Turns a 14X7 three blade Master Airscrew and a wooden (forgot which brand zinger top flight) 15X6 two blade at about 9,500 static measured with a tack. running 0% nitro. Using a 14X6 two blade the engine turned in the neighborhood of 10,250ish. Been long enough now I don't remember exactly. My 13X6 two blade ran in excess of 11,000 rpm. What I do know is the 14X6 would not pull my 9lb plane with unlimited vertical. With both the 14X7 three blade and the 15X6 two blade the plane will climb vertical forever, albiet slowly. If I am after speed the 13X6 pulled faster flat and level. As to the load I am putting on my engine, again measured static, I used a temp sensor pointed at the glow plug. The smaller props ran between 290°- 310° were as the 15X6-2 and the 14X7-3 run in the 280° - 300° range.
I will not attempt to say what the OS 91 can or can not due since I do not have one. However, I agree that it is a good engine.
After digging out my notes I found that the RPM numbers I wrote above were 1000 RPM too high[:@]. Everything else is/was correct. The RPM are now correct. I'll be re-testing soon with a test stand set up to measure thrust.
02-10-2009, 09:57 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
In what position did you mount your Saito F100
180, 270 degrees, or what
Am planning to put my Saito 100 in the Extra
Would appreciate you comments
180, 270 degrees, or what
Am planning to put my Saito 100 in the Extra
Would appreciate you comments
02-10-2009, 11:50 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hey, Jack, it looks as if the guys you are responding to - who used the Saito 100 - may not be monitoring the thread these days.
You can mount the engine inverted, 90 deg or at the 45 degree angle that has been pre-drilled and blind nuts installed. The 45 deg angle provides for the least cutting of the cowl and positions the muffler to exit in the little channel in the bottom of the fuselage.
I have an OS .91 4c installed in mine, using the stock mount and the 45 degree stock position, and it runs fine. I assume the Saito would also run well in this position. As you can see, all that was needed was a very small cut for the rocker cover.
You can mount the engine inverted, 90 deg or at the 45 degree angle that has been pre-drilled and blind nuts installed. The 45 deg angle provides for the least cutting of the cowl and positions the muffler to exit in the little channel in the bottom of the fuselage.
I have an OS .91 4c installed in mine, using the stock mount and the 45 degree stock position, and it runs fine. I assume the Saito would also run well in this position. As you can see, all that was needed was a very small cut for the rocker cover.
02-11-2009, 04:21 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hey Everyone,
Cmoulder, can you tell me what your propeller brand is please? And the size? Is it a rigid prop? Compared to a Master Airscrew I mean.
Because MA props are very flexible and I think I must loose some power...
Can you climb infinitely with your extra? Because I have the same engine and would like to compare!
Thanks a lot in advance.
Nico
Cmoulder, can you tell me what your propeller brand is please? And the size? Is it a rigid prop? Compared to a Master Airscrew I mean.
Because MA props are very flexible and I think I must loose some power...
Can you climb infinitely with your extra? Because I have the same engine and would like to compare!
Thanks a lot in advance.
Nico
02-11-2009, 07:51 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Am confused about your pictures
The picture of the cowl with the Saito 100 installed appears that the position of th engine
is somewhere between 180 to 270 degrees - not 270 as you mentioned
Can you enlighten me on this
The picture of the cowl with the Saito 100 installed appears that the position of th engine
is somewhere between 180 to 270 degrees - not 270 as you mentioned
Can you enlighten me on this
02-11-2009, 08:07 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hi, Nico:
The prop in the photo is a 13x8 Zinger Pro (wood) that I modified to make it useable.
The basic prop is poorly made, with squared edges and a very inefficient airfoil shape. However, I sanded the leading edges of the blades until they were smooth and a better aerodynamic shape (at least to my eye), and I sanded a lot off the top/rear edge of the blades which were waaaayyy too thick and had squared-off edges. Much thinner and sharper on the back edge. Then painted and balanced.
I flew the Zinger before and after the modification, and I can tell you it is noticeably quieter and has better pull after all the re-working.
If you want to save a lot of work, just get an APC 13x8 sport prop, which pulls the plane well and doesn't require all the effort to modify the Zinger! APC is also much better than MA because it is stiffer - you can hear the change in pitch with MA.
Vertical is very good - not spectacular - using either of these props and 15% nitro fuel.
The prop in the photo is a 13x8 Zinger Pro (wood) that I modified to make it useable.
The basic prop is poorly made, with squared edges and a very inefficient airfoil shape. However, I sanded the leading edges of the blades until they were smooth and a better aerodynamic shape (at least to my eye), and I sanded a lot off the top/rear edge of the blades which were waaaayyy too thick and had squared-off edges. Much thinner and sharper on the back edge. Then painted and balanced.
I flew the Zinger before and after the modification, and I can tell you it is noticeably quieter and has better pull after all the re-working.
If you want to save a lot of work, just get an APC 13x8 sport prop, which pulls the plane well and doesn't require all the effort to modify the Zinger! APC is also much better than MA because it is stiffer - you can hear the change in pitch with MA.
Vertical is very good - not spectacular - using either of these props and 15% nitro fuel.
02-11-2009, 08:12 AM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
ORIGINAL: JackMcAfee
Am confused about your pictures
The picture of the cowl with the Saito 100 installed appears that the position of th engine
is somewhere between 180 to 270 degrees - not 270 as you mentioned
Can you enlighten me on this
Am confused about your pictures
The picture of the cowl with the Saito 100 installed appears that the position of th engine
is somewhere between 180 to 270 degrees - not 270 as you mentioned
Can you enlighten me on this
This shows the engine mounted using the factory-supplied engine mount using the pre-drilled firewall holes.
02-11-2009, 12:27 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Jack, while you're at it, you might want to get a [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBC35&P=7]remote glow igniter[/link] because those 4-stroke glow plugs are very hard to get at, and because you have to make a huge hole in the cowl to access them.
02-11-2009, 06:42 PM
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RE: Phoenix Extra 330S 60-90 Size
Hi Cmoulder,
thanks for your answer.
I think I'll try the APC prop and see if it pulls better!
Have a good afternoon or evening... It is high time to go to bed here...
Nico
thanks for your answer.
I think I'll try the APC prop and see if it pulls better!
Have a good afternoon or evening... It is high time to go to bed here...
Nico