cmoulder

Rick, all the above.

I live very close to my local flying club, but unfortunately the largest planes permitted there are 2-stroke .91 and 4-stroke 1.20, so I can't fly the bigger gassers. I have a 50cc AW Yak and am getting later this year a 100cc Extra.

However, the Phoenix Extra is good, as you mentioned, for learning the IMAC routines and practicing maneuvers and wind compensation, etc. It's great for working out stick sequences for new maneuvers such as transitioning from an upright flat spin to an inverted flat spin, and then using that to hone the maneuver with the bigger planes.

That is why for me it is worth a little effort to get this model flying in a nice, neutral manner.

cmoulder

Hey, Russ, I really hate to say whether or not you're ready for the Phoenix Extra, but I can say without reservation that I would not have been ready for it after 3 successful flights with my trainer.

When I first started (about 4 years ago) I flew the crap out of my trainer and got to the point where I could land it dead center on the runway in a controlled manner every time. Must've been about 500 flights, and I wore out a couple of 2100mah PolyQuest LiPo's in that little Hobby Lobby Liberty trainer.

The NexStar is a great second step. Remove the NACA droops and the flaps and it becomes an excellent advanced trainer. Still well behaved, but it lands a little quicker and is a lot more maneuverable for aerobatics. Get really good with that model and then there will be a much greater chance for success with the Extra.

cmoulder

Russ, I forgot to mention...

Just follow the break-in procedure as described in the OS manual. 1-2 tanks is plenty, then run it slightly rich for the first gallon or so.

The k1460 designation on the MA prop means it is a 14x6, and it is fine for break-in as well as general flying as long as you use the break-in procedure in the OS manual. Later you may want to get an APC prop because they are stiffer and therefore more efficient. Take your time breaking in and tuning the engine, and it will be well worth it in the long run as this is a fine engine. Also pay special attention to the section on adjusting the fuel mix for idle until you have a good transition.

As far as other people being around, it is good to have one experienced flier with you when you maiden. Don't worry about what anybody else thinks!

russmhunt

thanks bob im gonna fly the crap out of my trainer this weekend and possibly maiden my nexstar as well. I've been flying for 2 years but the past year was spent in iraq so no flight in 08 anyways I will have this extra on hand for when I get the balls to maiden her until then it is simulator and trainer /nexstar

jib

Perfect. I tend to favor lower pitch props for the thrust, acceleration and deceleration they provide anyway. I don't need ultimate speed anymore. I guess I'm getting old(er).

Jack

cmoulder

Russ, good decision to get very comfortable with one plane before moving on to the next.

I was once a young man in the military (in the 1970's![X(]) and I remember how difficult it was to maintain continuity with hobby activities. I don't know if you are military or with a civilian contractor, but in any event long absences away from a "real" home have the same effect!

russmhunt

arkansas national guard

cmoulder

Russ, Glad you're back safe and sound.

I have found at every RC flying club I've seen that there is no shortage of guys willing to help with plane/engine/radio set-up and flying. If possible, it works well to find an experienced flier as an instructor, and then stick with the same instructor as you work your way up and gain experience and confidence.

richlstubbz

I can say I’m fairly new to the flying world. I have several years of experience driving RC cars when I was younger.

I think I have about 20-30 flights under my belt and now feel extremely confident in my abilities.

I had a good trainer and we used a flight training box to get me started.

Though early in my training I purchased a Flight Training system with a Cessna and RF G3.5. I won’t recommend getting this system to anyone though. The plane in it is garbage.

What was golden about that system is it came with RF G3.5 (I think just it alone is $120?). This simulator has helped me go a long long way in training. I have no idea how many hours I have put in on this thing but it’s a lot of help if you don’t make it to the field other than on Sundays.

All you need to do is practice on that simulator well past the point of which you are board to death. You also need to know how to set up the wind. I have several hours playing with the turbulence, win direction, and speed changes that makes flying a plane in 20mph+ winds in real life easy.

Simulators are not the same but it sure does help and it’s a lot cheaper to hit that Rest button than to buy a new plane. But at the field you should have a good pilot helping you along or have a Junker you can fly around with until you can do it confidently.

Flying around others is hard. I am new at that and all I can say is stay 100% focused on what you are doing and try and tune out the other planes. Just keep an eye out for the others (don’t look for them just have a feel of where they are) and until you get comfortable with flying with others just stay in a predictable path. On direction, altitude and speed.

RICKSTUBBZ

Russ,

First off let me say welcome home. Most of the advise I would give has been given. I would not want to discourage you from taking on a bigger challenge. But do it with the right help and when the time is right.

FAST-J

Hey cmoulder, your not going to believe this..I moved the c.g. to 105mm and the plane fly's great, it will hover without a fight, it's like a whole other plane, I can really enjoy it now.. It still how ever favors the left wing for tip stall but not as bad, I will be playing with the incidence some more to try to help correct that as well..Oh!! The elevator is now level..

Jay

cmoulder

Hmm... where was your CG before, Jay?

I think the recommended is 120mm, so while the plane may fly more solidly at 105mm (and at an aesthetically better attitude) it is going to make it less maneuverable for aerobatics, and likely it will require a LOT of down elevator when inverted.

Essentially, the forward CG is "masking" the little design glitch with the wing incidence being a skosh too much. Raising the wing TE 3/32" solves this, as I have discovered in 2 of these planes already. As the old saying goes, "once is a coincidence, twice is a pattern."

Believe me, I would never hold forth as an expert on aerodynamics, but the absolute measured relative incidences are practically irrelevant in this case. Raising the TE (and moving the CG back to 120 or 125mm) is an easy fix, and it is also easy to move it back if you don't like it.

Sometimes a little conservative Trial-and-Error is better than "paralysis by analysis"!

FAST-J

Hows the hover, Do you have to fight with it? It was late so was limited on the amount of flight time. Landings were a little hotter, would hold a knife edge blender was the same and thats about it. Hopefully if the weather holds out I will get to fly again sunday afternoon..

cmoulder

Hover is okay, but of course a lot more work than a UCanDo. Pull-out is minimal with the .91 4-stroke, so practicing torque-rolling 2 feet off the deck is not a good idea, at least not for me. I've got a lot more work to do to get to that point!

RICKSTUBBZ

For what it is worth here is some wing area/ wing loading information. My curiosity was getting the best of me and I wanted to know what the wing loading on this bird is.

I think someone computed the wing area earlier in this thread. Rather than look for it I did the math with my numbers. The wing area comes out to be just under 700square inches (4.8588 sq ft). This does not include the area of fuselage between the wings. For grins, here is a sketch of what is computed with aileron hinge line not shown.

Anyway at 7lb 8oz (120 ounces) that makes the wing loading about 24.70 ounces/sq ft.

Since I had the info, why not post it-FYI-.

cmoulder

Sounds pretty close. I remember reading somewhere around 680 sq/in, so that's close enough, anyway.

Mine weighs 7 lb 0.7oz with the .91 4-stroke, and with the .91 2-stroke I had in the previous plane it weighed 6 lb 8oz.

Very respectable wing loading for a nitro model, for sure.[8D]

Somebody did an [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781613]e-conversion[/link] and reported a weight of 126 oz. AUW.

russmhunt

well guys I had 2 succesful flight by my self and then decided I was going to go for another one and did good until I was turning for my runway and killed the throttle I still managed to correct it but it came in just a little heavy and bent my landing gear I am on my way to fixing it I took those crummy metal rods off that have a lot of bounch in them and upgraded to a solid landing gear so I am getting better and also playing that old g4.5 did u guys know you can go to swap pages and get free airplanes for that sim as well

cmoulder

Very rigid LG will transfer shock straight to the airframe, likely damaging the fuselage instead of the landing gear in a hard landing.

RICKSTUBBZ

Admittedly the assembly of my extra will drag out for a while. There are just too many things needing my time. Not to mention maintaining the existing fleet and getting to the flying field weekly.

By now you guys have probably figured out I am one of those that can not leave well enough alone. I always have to change something.

Anyway, the last couple of evenings I have messed around with my covering additions for the stabilizer and elevators of this thing.

cmoulder

Very nice! That's gonna be one snazzy looking plane.[sm=thumbup.gif]

How did you do the checkers - individually cut??

RICKSTUBBZ

Hey Bob, Thanks,

Yep, individually cut one at a time is the way I make the checkered patterns. It is a bit time consuming. But with any luck it will look nice when done.




In the case anyone would like to see how I go about this I have added a few pictures from were I am doing the wing to help show the method I use. This is not the only way to do this but it is what I used on this plane.

For this plane you can see that I had to make a fudge factor on the left side of the pattern(two lines close to each other) shown since both wing halves were not exactly the same. The way I trimmed out the red I could not make the necessary adjustments. Anyway, I cut the larger part first for one side then trimmed the pattern down to make the second side. Once the three left parts of the pattern were done everything else is the same from the right to the left.

1) First I draw out a paper pattern as seen. Cut the individual squares out one at a time.

2) Using strips of masking tape I’ll tape the pattern piece to some monokote and a piece of glass.

3) With a decent scale and razor blade cut out the patter leaving the side with two pieces of tape for last.

4) The main pattern sheet can be used to help line up the piece of covering.

5) Using a trim seal iron set on low I attach the covering.

6) To make the left wing I just flip the pattern over.

russmhunt

RICKSTUBBZ nice work post the finished product

cmoulder

You are a lot more patient than I!!

That's going to be a work of art when it flies.

russmhunt

quick question on aileron and elevator servo will i need to buy this harness http://cgi.ebay.com/Rc-Expert-6-Y-Ha...1%7C240%3A1318 or can i use a standard y harness and just turn one servo the opposite direction

cmoulder

Russ,

I think the Phoenix is set up so that the elevator servos are physically reversed in the tail, so a regular Y harness will do, and also only a regular Y harness is needed for the ailerons.

What kind of radio TX are you using, and how many channels on the RX?

While the above set-up will work, it is not exactly ideal because it requires all tweaking (beyond basic trim) to be done mechanically. It is much more convenient to have ailerons and elevator halves on separate channels if at all possible to allow very fine tuning of control surfaces with the TX. Getting elevator travel to match can be very frustrating.