Flyinhi1

knormang, I was going to use the Zenny G20 ei but I got to looking at other people's reviews of it and I had second thoughts. The G20 seems to have a bit less power than I think I want on this plane, plus reports are saying it's ignition is a total power hog. I returned the engine and ordered the Zenoah G26. If it doesn't fit in the cowl I will rethink my engine choices, maybe even the airplane too, but I really like Yaks, so we'll have to see. I want this to be my move into gassers, eventually getting my hands on a DA 75 and/or larger for giant scale birds. But that's serious bucks that will have to be acrued over time. Something to look forward to someday

I like the idea of spats too, instead of the pants. So I'll be watching to see what you come up with. If I see anything, of course, I'll let you all know too.

69 roadrunner

Capthis when do you think you will madon your yak hope to fly mine this weekend if weather is good

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

I doesn't look good weather wise for this weekend either. It's killing me too as I have two planes ready to maiden, and can't fly either one. But it is winter time! [:'(]

69 roadrunner

capthis what prop will you use on your plane and what is your elvation runner

JWQ500RC

My Feedback: (2)

Put first flight on mine today. It flies great, only had time to get in one flight. Powered by OS 108 with 15 X 8 prop. Didn't try much 3D but will hover. I hope everyone that is waiting for good weather gets it soon. You don't know what your missing.

69 roadrunner

Capthis how does your weather look to maidon the yak please email me at [email protected] when you get that first flight runner

rtn9105

My Feedback: (35)

Anyone else gotten to maiden this plane yet? I'm really interested to hear how it performs with the Saito 125, I've been looking at this airframe for a YS 110 which should be pretty comparable to the 125.

s. wallace

My Feedback: (24)

Mine is completed with a Saito 1.25 but it will be at least two months before any flying takes place in upstate NY. The model is built like a tank, I've nicknamed mine "Iron Curtain"...a huge contrast from the last ARF I put together, a Fliton Edge 540.

I will look into lighter LG, and I agree with others that the wheelpants are (aside from not scale) too big in proportion to the rest of the plane.

Overall though it looks sharp; I don't expect it to excel at 3D but should be a nice scale aerobatics model.

Chumley

Hobbico makes a 61" Sukhoi that has spats and 3" wheels. Tower sells the spats for $20 and they're red, so they may look OK as is. I ordered a set for mine and when they come in I'll post a picture. I also have a Funtana Carbon Fiber main landing gear on order. I'll let you all know how this experiment turns out.

Chumley

sowega flyer

Can anyone tell me the wing loading on this plane? I just looked at the CMP (nitromodels) Yak 140 for the same price, and the wing loading on that one is stated to be 32.89 oz. I'm trying to decide which one to get.
Thanks
Jason

Chumley

sowega,

capthis wrote in an earlier post in this thread "I figured my wing area at 850sq inches, with a weight of 8lbs 8ozs. This gives me a wing loading of 23.05oz/ft2."

Chumley

water.boy

I've started to buld mine and have noticed something that I might miss later on...no spot in the tail for rudder servo. I like having the option to keep it in the front for light engines, and have a spot in the rear for heavy ones. I'm sure I can fab one up, but with the level of thought that seems to have gone into the plane, you'd think it'd be on there.

In my case, I'm going to try and fit the EVO 26 w/ pitts on it, as it seems to be only a few more oz than the G20 they recommend. I'll also be dropping the pants,spinner, swapping the landing gear w/ CF, going w/ Kavan tires, and probably L-ion packs. I figure if it'll balance, it should be slightly heavier than a glow setup with all the factory parts on it, and should have INSANE power! I'm really excited about having a Yak this size as I've been eyeing the Somenzini which is a little bigger, and doesn't have the power that this combo should have. Worst case scenario, I can swap the Saito 125 from the Showtime and stick w/ glow.

sowega flyer

Thanks, Chumly- I completely missed that info.

Chumley

sowega,

No problem. I've been watching (and committed to memory) everything capthis and runner have posted as they are a whole lot better at this than I am!

Chumley

Flyinhi1

Yay! just picked up my Zenoah G26a today. It'll fit with maybe a little vaseline and a shoe horn! Got a JR pcm receiver coming any day so I think I'll begin assembly this week. This is going to probably be the heaviest one of the bunch here, but this motor is capable of 17 lbs of thrust or more so I ain't sweatin' it. Did anybody seal their hinge lines? Does anybody know if Ultra Cote comes in clear? I was thinking I'd like to use it to seal all my gaps.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

Pull out power won't be a problem, but wing loading will be a problem. I still think a gas engine is way to heavy for this size of bird if you want good performance. If all you want to do is fly around in a race track pattern, and have it land like a warbird it might be ok, but for aerobatic performance gas is simply too heavy for this bird. IMHO This plane is a little on the porky side to begin with. It could have ben built close to a pound lighter.

Yes they have clear ultracote. Or at least they used too! It's been a shile since I bought any as all I ever did with it was seal hinge gaps. It's also hard to tel which side is the covering, and which is the backing! you'll evetually be trying to iron the backing to your plane and wonder why it isn't sticking!


Chumley thanks for the kind words. It's nice to at least 1 person is reading what I've typed about this plane! [8D]

av8r1

I can't wait to hear how some of these gas engines work out on this plane. I understand what you're saying about the weight, just hoping you're wrong about that. I really want a gas-powered plane that's not too big. I hope there's a way to pull it off with this one. I'd like it to be able to do at least some basic 3D too, like torque rolls and harriers. It caught my eye because they're advertising it for the Zenoah 20 and it has a big round cowl.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

Per Horizon's posted spec on the engines. The Zenoah G26A weighs 59oz total. (53ozs bare) The Saito 125 I have weighs 25ozs Total (22 ozs bare) Best I can figure that's a difference of 34ozs, or 2lbs 2ozs.

Props for both engine will be about the same size, and therefore weight. So the only advantage the zenoah setup will have is the Saito plane has to use the supplied mount. Which doesn't weigh much. So best case senerio is the zenoah setup is going to be roughly 2lbs heavier than a 1.25 setup.

My plane weighs 8.5 lbs with lightening mods. If I switched to a lion battery and carbon gear I "might" get it down to 8.25lbs. So even with lightening mods, and carbon gear, lights battery etc with a zenoah, your still going to be 10.25lbs!

At 10.25lbs the wing loading will be 28ozs/ft2
Mine at 8.5bs is 23 ozs/ft2


28ozs/ft2 is too big of a number to do 3D with a plane of this size. The plane will fly heavy on it's wings, and will have to be flown faster to keep the wings flying. Which means faster landing speed, most likely nasty stall characteristics etc... I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using a G26A on this plane, but just want to show what the numbers are showing. It's your money so do with as you please, but I wouldn't get my hopes up to have a "good flying" plane with a gas setup on this size of plane. Not with these wings anyway!


Even the Zenoah 20 is a good pound heavier than the Saito 125 again per the Horizon website. much better than the G26A, but still to heavy for this plane IMHO.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

Here is a link that explains wing loading pretty well. http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ng_loading.htm

av8r1

I didn't say I doubted you, just hoping you were wrong.

Thanks for the details even though they're not what I wanted to hear.[:@] I understand wing loading.

I won't be putting any money into it until I see someone smarter than me figure out a way to do it.

Just hoping there's a reason Horizon is marketing this plane for gas because I'm not doing glow. Been there, done that. It was great at the time, but I don't think I'm going back. I'm all electric now and loving it, but I want to try gas. If this isn't the one, I'll keep looking.

water.boy

Capthis, I'm with you as far as the glow being a better setup for 3D and not having to worry about being too heavy. I have a Saito 125 that I can pull off my Showtime if needed. I bought this plane because I have an EVO 26 w/ inverted BCM pitts muffler needing a home, and figured I'd put the plane together with all the electronics and then see where I'll be weight wise. I like the idea of having a gasser this size, which I'm sure horizon is banking on, since most of their newer planes list the G20ei as an option, even if it's not the ideal setup with the parts that come in the kits.

I'm assuming that since horizon's weight range is 8.4-9.9lbs, that the glow of course is on the lighter end and the G20ei is at the top. Based on that, I rounded up to 10lbs, which I'd agree is NOT where I would want to be for 3D or landing. I also calc'd the wing area to 846sq in. I weighed all the parts and substituted the listed weights of alternative parts and here's what I came up with:

wheel pants - 2.125oz, substitute - no pants (they're not scale anyways)
spinner - 1.75oz, sub - no spinner but rounded nut - 1oz
motor mount - 3oz, sub - radial mount - 1oz (guessing since it's not listed)
LG bolts - 1.125oz, sub - nylon - 1oz
LG - 7.125oz, sub - funtana or other CF gear - 4oz
tank w/ stopper - 2.75, sub - smaller tank - 2oz
wing tube - 3.625, sub - CF tube - 1.7oz
battery(s) - figuring they're basing their specs on the typical 600-1100mah - 3.125-4.625, sub L-ion pack - 2oz
Total weight loss about 13oz, not including canopy mod or the lightweight muffler option for the EVO (it's new and I haven't weighed it).

These numbers aren't the gospel as I haven't put more time into weighing ALL the parts, but I figure it's a good starting point.

Based on the published weight and wing area specs I came up with a loading range of 22.86-26.94. If I take out the weight I saved by not running the factory stuff, and adding a little in for the 1.5 oz weight difference between the EVO and the G20ei, the loading goes down to about 25oz, give or take a little.

I then figure that since the Saito is kind of pricey, some may opt for cheaper mills like the recommended EVO 1.00 2 stroke (28oz), the OS 120AX (30oz), or the Magnum 120 4 stroke (which weighs 31oz vs 25 on the saito), which someone here chimed in and gave it a 9 out of 10, and figure that I should be more than ok. I sure hope I'm right and I'll let you guys know if I ever get it going.

I'm not trying to get a "glow vs gas" debate going, but if you already have a gasser or want to get into one fairly cheap, I don't think this is a bad combo, but I'll reserve judgement until we get some more feedback from the field. So back to building I go, I go.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

All this copied from my previous posts just for comparison's sake.

R. Wing/Ron 9.90
L. Wing/Ron 9.20
Fuse 25
Fin/Rudd 2.15
Stab/Ele 3.08
Canopy 7.79
W Tube 3.23
Cowl 4.27
Gear 6.54
Motor Mount 2.75
Hardware 2.97
Misc ply .50
Wheels/tailwheel 3.13
Spinner 1.67
Wheel pants 3.57

The first thing I did was lighten the canopy. That brought the weight down from 7.79oz to 4.66ozs. A savings of 3.13 ozs. Well worth the effort.

So all the kit components minus the wheel pants, and spinner weigh 4lbs 13.38ozs. That's with the canopy lightening mods. Without lightening the canopy it would be right at 5lbs even.

Another thing to think about when choosing gas, is my airplane came out just a little nose heavy with the light motor up front. My rudder is on the factory pull pull setup, so if you stick a heavy gas engine in this your most likely going to have to move your rudder servo to the tail as well as figure out a way to shift the weight back some.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

If you really want to go gas, and want to stay on a budget here is a good plane to get you started. There's a few different 45cc gas engines on the market now that are very reasonable. They make a good powerplant for this plane. Also Tower has these on sale, and if your a memeber of the Tower Hobbies Club you can have one shipped to your door for 215.00-220.00 bucks. They are advertised at 77" but actually measure 79". I built one because I picked up a CRRC 45cc gas engine for next to nothing, and needed a plane for it.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJUV1

I actually have more $$ in the Seagul yak, than I do the CG Extra! Go figure! Not counting servos etc, that I already had on hand.

Here's the build thread on the extra as well.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3132667/tm.htm

water.boy

Thx capthis. I was a little disappointed they didn't include a rudder servo spot in the tail, as I figured I'd prefer to move it back there not only to balance, but for simplicity. I noticed that a lot of the yaks have a longer nose on them now, which will help lighter motors balance. I was hoping that by using the EVO radial mount I could snug it up against the firewall a little more than a standard mount, so I'd lose weight with the mount while also moving it back to offset the weight of the gasser. I also was hoping they considered the G20ei when they decided to only build in the forward rudder servo, so maybe I'll get lucky. Another concern for me will be making sure I can fit a muffler up against the firewall without getting "creative". It's hard to tell without having different mufflers in had to see.

I also checked out the extra and it's a nice looking setup. I have a Brillelli 40gt that I'm putting in a Giles and I bet it would fly that extra too, but their advertised weights make me wonder how much 3d power it'd have. As far as your crrc 45, I've been thinking of picking one up but haven't decided between the one that westernhobbies.com sells, or the thor 45 that hobbypeople.net sells. At $300 it's a pretty good deal, but I'd have to run one a while on the stand before I get comfy with putting it in the air.

I'm sure in the end I'll have as much in my yak as a much larger plane, but my goal was to have a gasser 3d planes and to use my EVO 26 since I've heard they are little power houses, but most of the slightly bigger planes are just a little heavy for the EVO to have awesome pullout power. With all the cool stuff coming out these days, I'm excited about a couple of things.....stuff will get cheaper and the smaller gasser market should have more offerings. This is nice since I have flying site nearby that most people don't fly larger than 40-60 sized planes, and my Showtime 90 was the biggest people had seen there in a while. I also have a 1/3 GP Cap 580 w/ a DA100 for the bigger sites, but the closest is 30 mins away.

Flyinhi1

Thanks for all opinions you guys. This is my first gasser and I don't expect it to be the perfect bird ( but it'd be cool if it was even in the neighborhood...), I'm learning about all the differences between glow and gas equipment on this one so that my next one will be a better informed foray. I chose a heavier gas engine because the lighter one seemed to have some issues concerning power and ignition reliability based on what I read on these (RCU) and other forums. I'm thinking with a higher thrust (17lbs?) to weight ratio I'd be able to fly like I like to fly once I'm airborne and if I have to land her hot......well then......OK. I know my next one will have at least a DA85, (love to support the locals here,) and all the things I do/did wrong on this one will be corrected or improved. The More I Know . . . . . . . . . . . .uh, the more It'll cost. Amen.