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Seagull Yak?

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Old 12-06-2011, 02:13 AM
  #1326
RCplanman
 
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

rowdyjoe,if it,s too thin to insert your new hinges-how will proceed ?
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:25 AM
  #1327
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

So for those who have been flying this plane for a while with a 20cc engine, how do they fly overall and how well are they holding up? I have been looking at getting something to go along with a G20 as a backup plane to what it is currently flying.

thanks.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:42 AM
  #1328
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCplanman

rowdyjoe,if it,s too thin to insert your new hinges-how will proceed ?

Iused an exacto knife to carefully widen the slots. They were so tight in some areas that the no. 11 blade was almost too thick to fit in the slot.
In addition to the elevator, Imounted the ailerons last night. The wing slots were very tight and it took a while to trim them out without getting them too wide.
Iused 30 min. epoxy to make sure Ihad plenty of work time.

RJ

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Old 12-06-2011, 11:45 AM
  #1329
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Got this model last christmas, did not start flying it till say april. Rcg 20 beam mount with a 17 6 xoar and gotabout 50 flights on the plane.
The 20cc engine and plane is a good combo and flys well, for some one looking for a good start to acrobatic gas flying this is a good step up from glow.
Not a all out 3d set up due to the airframe being a bit beefy but will hold a hover and has unlimited vertical.
Ditch the ca hinges, they will fail and add some tri stock or whatever to the engine mount box as it will through time move a bit, pour some ca into the fuse where you can and that is about it. Oh lost tail wheel, glue that sucker on.

The plane has held up well for me, recommend one to anyone, great value plane.

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Old 12-06-2011, 04:21 PM
  #1330
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

The text for the UBEC says it is for nitro planes. I am not sure it was designed for the same use as a BEC, but saving $35 may be worth experimenting.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:34 PM
  #1331
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

I'm not sure what the "U" stands for but, a BEC is commonly built in to most ESCs for electric planes & heli's. A "UBEC" usually indicates it is separate from the ESC ...which is what you want.
Yes, it will work with a glow or gas powered airplane. If you run one battery & UBEC to your receiver and another battery & UBEC to your ignition you'll be fine.
Just make sure you're buying quality equipment ....and don't run both pieces of gear off one battery.

RJ
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:18 PM
  #1332
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

The BEC is utilized to allow one battery to power both the servos and the ignition. It is commonly refered to as a battery eliminator.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:25 PM
  #1333
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

Yes. Now, please tell me what the "U"in UBEC means.
BEC = Battery Eliminator Circuit
UBEC = U??? Battery Eliminator Circuit

RJ
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:33 PM
  #1334
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

I don't fly electrics. The battery elimator (BEC) is sold specifically to eliminate the need for a second battery on a gas plane. It filters interference while allowing the receiver to supply power to the ignition. There may be similar mechanisms used with electrics, but the item I am referencing was specifically designed for gasoline powered planes utilzing a electronic ignition.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:16 PM
  #1335
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Slow and Steady

I don't fly electrics. The battery elimator (BEC) is sold specifically to eliminate the need for a second battery on a gas plane. It filters interference while allowing the receiver to supply power to the ignition. There may be similar mechanisms used with electrics, but the item I am referencing was specifically designed for gasoline powered planes utilzing a electronic ignition.

It doesn't matter whether you fly electrics or not ...you're mis-informed about the purpose of BECs.

BECs do the same job for electric flying machines. They are not exclusive to RC gas engines.
Most ESCs (Electronic Speed Control) for electric airplanes have a built-in BEC ...or you can install a separate BEC (UBEC?). The ESC controls the motor RPM and the BEC controls the voltage.
The BEC (UBEC?) regulates the input voltage down to the correct output voltage. In the case of a receiver or ignition, the output is between 4.8 volts and 6 volts ....some are voltage selectable.
In the case of electric planes/helis, etc., the ESC/BEC combo does eliminate the need for an additional receiver (or motor) battery. The BEC is there to reduce the voltage for the receiver as most (all?)are rated for a max of 6 volts.

If you want to use a 3 cell LIPO (11.4 volts nominal) or a 2 cell LIPO (7.4 volts nominal) for the ignition on your gas plane, use a BEC rated for an input of 12 to 13 volts (or more) and, if it's programed for 6 volt output, it will drop the voltage to 6 volts and no more. If you want to use a 6.6 volt (nominal) A123 battery, you can plug it directly into your ignition and gamble that it will take 7.2 volts (at full charge) ORyou can use a BEC with a rated output of 6 volts to make sure you don't damage your ignition.
A BEC is a step-down transformer/voltage regulator. It does NOTeliminate the need for an extra battery.

If you need any further help understanding this, please feel free to reply to this post or PMme.

By the way, you're making a big mistake if you plan to run your receiver and ignition from the same battery. You're airplane will be much safer using a separate battery (and BEC)for each system.
You can run two 2 cell LIPOs at 2100mah each and together they will be lighter than one 6.6 volt 2300mah A123.

RJ

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Old 12-07-2011, 09:30 PM
  #1336
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

There is more than one way to address a concern. But out of concern for others on this thread, I would like to clarify one thing. The BEC I am refering to is specifically designed to allow one battery to power both the ignition and receiver. It is available from Chief, 42 Percent Products and Syssa. Its primary function is to filter noise eminating from the ignition. It has nothing to do with electric planes. It is commonly refered to as a "battery eliminator". Syssa refers to it as an IBE or "ignition battery eliminator" and here is the link:

http://www.syssaaircraft.net/cart/pc...5&idcategory=2

Due to the weight of this plane, it is a worthwhile option.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:38 PM
  #1337
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

Good luck

RJ
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:02 AM
  #1338
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

Slowand steary, Might I ask ? How long have you been flying with one battery for both ?
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:50 AM
  #1339
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

I am doing the same as slow and steady and so are many others with 20 cc gas engine in that I run the ignition off the rx on some of my models. Many now use the syysa battery eliminator bec with filtering/opto and a single a123/life battery to do this especially on the 3d 20cc size profiles where weight is a issue. This unit has been around for over 6 months and so far I can not think of a single person who has reported interference, the system is only advised for 2.4 ghz radios at the moment.

Rowdyjoe is correct that the most isolated way to avoid interference is the two battery set up, I dont think anyone will argue against that but as technology moves on there is other options out there. In the case of the seagull yak the airframe will handle the weight of a gasser and two batterys no problem, thats how I fly my yak.

I am not selling this product to anyone and personally 30cc and up models were weight is not so much of a issue there is no reason not to have two seperate batterys.

But having said that with the syysa battery eliminator and a 30cc model I would prob run two batterys through two switches both to seperate rx ports then run the ignition of the rx via the syysa battery eliminator giving me full rx redundancy, full optical ignition isolation and a ignition kill with only two batterys on board instead of three.

There is people who would run a 30cc with one a123 battery and the eliminator and people who would only fly with three batterys, the end of the day it depends on how much redundancy and failsafe you want.

Nobody is wrong, its a personal choice.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:23 PM
  #1340
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

I appologize if Iappear to have been trying to prove anyone wrong or right. My intent was to educate concerning the electronic components we use in our planes. I learned what little I know from forums just like this one (and trial and error) and I try to pass on the "intel" whenever I get a chance.
When I make a decision on how to power my birds and what to use, Ilike to have all the relevant info so I can make an informed decision ...not because "Joe" at the field said it was good, bad, etc. I've found that some of the "Joes" in the world don't know what they're talking about.

A BEC with "filtering"is still a BEC. You can put lipstick, ear rings, and high heels on a pig but, it's still a pig.
However, when used alone, in a situation other than electric powered planes, Ithink they should be called what they are ....Voltage Matching Circuit or Voltage Regulator Circuit ...or how about "Receiver/Ignition Over-voltage Protection Circuit".

RJ

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Old 12-09-2011, 09:27 AM
  #1341
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

I use a single "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) on my Funtana and 50 cc yak; both are gas powered. I have approximately 60 plus flights on the Funtana and over 280 on the Yak. The Funtana is powered by a single Life 6.6 Volt 2100 Mah battery, which is easily good for 5 to 7 flights dependant on the Mah used per flight. The Funtana has consistantly used around 200 Mah per 10 minute flight, while the Yak uses 310 to 360 Mah per flight. The Yak has two of the same batteries described above and they feed the receiver through a Smart Fly regulator, which has battery share technology and failsafe capacity. "Battery share" means it continually draws from the battery with the higher existing voltage; in otherwords it it pulls from both, one at a time as they both draw down. The failsafe capacity, means it will disregard a battery that has failed and draw from the remaining battery.

The batteries have a deans connector and 18 gage wire, which is good for at least 8 amps; way more than either plane require. On the Funtana, the 18 gage wire has two pigtails with Futaba type leads entering the receiver, to ensure the amps are available at the receiver. The Yak is similar, but contains an additional pigtail that feeds directly to the rudder.

I have known 3d flyers who fly 50cc planes with only one receiver battery, to keep the weight down. But I like redundancy on a plane that large and dangerous (if control is not maintained). On the other had 20 or 30 cc planes are likely fine with a single battery and IBC, if properly set up.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:09 AM
  #1342
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

OK, Isee my problem now. The term "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) is confusing. That piece of equipment doesn't eliminate the ignition battery and it doesn't eliminate the reciever battery either.
What it does do is "regulate" the voltage to each piece of equipment whether the voltage supply is one two, or five batteries (there's probably an input voltage limit though).

I use a Smart Fly Sport regulator in my 50cc size bird and power is supplied by two A123 2300 mah 6.6 volt batteries. This regulator works just as well with one battery but, it drains a single battery faster because it has to power the receiver and ignition. Ialso like the redundancy. Idon't know anyone who is flying "giant"scale with less than two batteries to help protect their investment.

I wish we could all get on the same page with terminology. If the mfgs would cooperate we would all benefit.

By the way ....LIPO packs (2 cell) are much cheaper and lighter than A123's. Ibought two 2-cell 2100mah packs from HKfor about $30 shipped (USA warehouse). The switching UBECs (voltage regulators) from Hobby Partz were less than $15 each and they are voltage selectable (5 volts or 6 volts).
I run two of these LIPO packs through a Smart Fly Regulator in my Spacewalker II 120 (26cc gas) and plan to run the LIPO/UBEC combos in my Yak. They work great and seem to last forever.

Merry Christmas to all ...

RJ
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:14 PM
  #1343
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?


[quote]ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

OK, Isee my problem now. The term "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) is confusing. That piece of equipment doesn't eliminate the ignition battery and it doesn't eliminate the reciever battery either.
What it does do is "regulate" the voltage to each piece of equipment whether the voltage supply is one two, or five batteries (there's probably an input voltage limit though.

LOL rowdy I stillnot sureyou have understood what this product does, yes it is a simple bec BUT instead of running it straight offabattery it plugs into the rx for its feed, it doesNOT regulate the power from the battery to therx but DOES regulates power from the rx to the ignition.

The feature that makes this different from a normal becis that the feed it takes from the rx is fully optically isolated and the unit can be switched on and off by the rx to act as a ignition kill.

It is termeda battery eliminator as it allows for the ignition battery to be removed safely from the plane and still run a fully optically isolated ignition from the rx.

Rowdy you have more experience than me and have clearly been flying longer so please dont think im trying to outsmart anyone, only trying to make clear the features that make this different from a normal bec, if I missread your understanding I apologise.

All the features of this unit are explained on the tech aero or syysa website.

Anyway back to seagull yak talk lol.



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Old 12-09-2011, 02:41 PM
  #1344
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

Yes. Now, please tell me what the ''U'' in UBEC means.
BEC = Battery Eliminator Circuit
UBEC = U??? Battery Eliminator Circuit

RJ
Seems like I remember the U = Universal

Could be wrong...
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:46 PM
  #1345
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?


[quote]ORIGINAL: raydar


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

OK, Isee my problem now. The term "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) is confusing. That piece of equipment doesn't eliminate the ignition battery and it doesn't eliminate the reciever battery either.
What it does do is "regulate" the voltage to each piece of equipment whether the voltage supply is one two, or five batteries (there's probably an input voltage limit though.

LOL rowdy I stillnot sureyou have understood what this product does, yes it is a simple bec BUT instead of running it straight offabattery it plugs into the rx for its feed, it doesNOT regulate the power from the battery to therx but DOES regulates power from the rx to the ignition.

The feature that makes this different from a normal becis that the feed it takes from the rx is fully optically isolated and the unit can be switched on and off by the rx to act as a ignition kill.

It is termeda battery eliminator as it allows for the ignition battery to be removed safely from the plane and still run a fully optically isolated ignition from the rx.

Rowdy you have more experience than me and have clearly been flying longer so please dont think im trying to outsmart anyone, only trying to make clear the features that make this different from a normal bec, if I missread your understanding I apologise.

All the features of this unit are explained on the tech aero or syysa website.

Anyway back to seagull yak talk lol.
Wow, I'm really confused now. If this device doesn't regulate power to the receiver, what does? Additionally, I can understand the need for an isolation/filtering circuit between the ignition and receiver but, a voltage "regulator" should not be necessary. The voltage output of the receiver is 6 volts max (as is the input) and the ignition requires (usually) 6 volts or less to operate. So what needs to be regulated if not the receiver?

No offense intended or taken.

RJ
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:57 PM
  #1346
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

Nothing regulates the rx, it gets the full life/a123 power which is 6.6volt, most rx and servos can handle this.

The ignition feed is regulated because alot of ignitions cannot run above 6 volt, this voltage is selectable with this unit, you can run 4.8, 5.0, cant remember and 6 volt lol.

I will point out that I do not use life/a123 batterys yet and only use the ubec to run the ignition off the rx supplied by 6 volt nimhs, so although im sure what I posted above is correctit would be nice for someone else toconfirm.
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Old 12-09-2011, 03:12 PM
  #1347
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: raydar

Nothing regulates the rx, it gets the full life/a123 power which is 6.6volt, most rx and servos can handle this.

The ignition feed is regulated because alot of ignitions cannot run above 6 volt, this voltage is selectable with this unit, you can run 4.8, 5.0, cant remember and 6 volt lol.

I will point out that I do not use life/a123 batterys yet and only use the ubec to run the ignition off the rx supplied by 6 volt nimhs, so although im sure what I posted above is correctit would be nice for someone else toconfirm.

I don't think Ilike the idea of unregulated voltage going to my receiver. If it fails, so does the airplane. I'll skip that piece of gear and go with regulated voltage to everything.
Thanks for the explanation.

BTW ..."receiver" packs are also available in LIFEformat ...6.6 volts. I use one in my Escapade .61 but, there is also a switching BEC between the battery and receiver.

RJ


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Old 12-09-2011, 03:21 PM
  #1348
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

Thats cool totally understand, just happy that there is clarity on how this unit is different from a normal bec.


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Old 12-10-2011, 01:53 PM
  #1349
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?

If you go with a Life "receiver" pack, it is only supplied with a Futaba type lead, which may not be sufficient if it is powering both the Receiver with digital servos and the ignition. They also cary packs that have a Deans connector, which is rated at 10 C or 10 Amps; more than enough for any load spikes.

Rowdie, As noted, I have the same SmartFly set up on my 50cc and have found its redundancy to be bullet proof.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:56 PM
  #1350
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Default RE: Seagull Yak?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe




I don't think I like the idea of unregulated voltage going to my receiver. If it fails, so does the airplane. I'll skip that piece of gear and go with regulated voltage to everything.
Thanks for the explanation.

BTW ...''receiver'' packs are also available in LIFE format ...6.6 volts. I use one in my Escapade .61 but, there is also a switching BEC between the battery and receiver.

RJ


Hi RJ,

My receivers are only rated to 6 volts soI used a single UBEC (rated to 8 amps) to regulate both my receiver and ignition.

Works great,

Clay
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