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COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

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Old 03-08-2007, 11:33 AM
  #26  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale


ORIGINAL: MANFRED

This dummy radial, although very complete, does not look anywhere near the right scale, need one for a much smaller cowl. Probably stick one of the two i have on my Balsa usa nieuport 11, looks more like the right size even though it's not a leRhone radial.
Manfred,

Not trying to pick nits here, but what does the LeRhone engine have to do with the WACO, and the LeRhone was a Rotary engine, and not a radial. The WACO with the cowl that is supplied with this ARF should have the 7 cylinder Continental engine to match the cowling with the paired blisters, which makes this one a UMF. In order to be a YMF, the engine should be a copy of the Jacobs which uses the non paired, or evenly spaced blisters. As I said, not picking nits, but right is right.

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Old 03-08-2007, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

To me, it was this one or leave the hole wide open.

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Old 03-09-2007, 12:39 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

Bill, perhaps you didn't read the thread and only zeroed in on what you "thought" were inaccuracies in the post. I wasn't suggesting the LeRhone was ever on a Waco, I was merely stating the fact of the GP Radial being way out of scale and suggesting an alternative use for the dummy I own. Just about the right size for the Balsa USA N-11 I posted in the above thread submission. So please pick your nits more carefully please!!!
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:39 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

Manfred,

I started not to make that remark, fearing it would be read as being hyper-critical. Sorry if you took it that way. The point that I was trying (poorly) to make was the statement referring to the use of the scale Continental radial which fits this cowl, rather than trying to use the scale Jacobs engine which will be wrong for this cowl. This model is mis-named. It is, in fact, not the YMF, but is rather the UMF. May not make any difference to you, or others, but to the WACO fan, the mistake is monumental. Seems as if the manufacturer would have labeled the model correctly. It matters to us as much as much as it would if they called a Neiuport 17, a Neiuport 18. Hope I'm forgiven if I insulted you, and no, I did not read the post referencing the Neiuport. Again, sorry.

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Old 03-09-2007, 03:46 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


ORIGINAL: MANFRED

This dummy radial, although very complete, does not look anywhere near the right scale, need one for a much smaller cowl. Probably stick one of the two i have on my Balsa usa nieuport 11, looks more like the right size even though it's not a leRhone radial.
Manfred,

Not trying to pick nits here, but what does the LeRhone engine have to do with the WACO, and the LeRhone was a Rotary engine, and not a radial. The WACO with the cowl that is supplied with this ARF should have the 7 cylinder Continental engine to match the cowling with the paired blisters, which makes this one a UMF. In order to be a YMF, the engine should be a copy of the Jacobs which uses the non paired, or evenly spaced blisters. As I said, not picking nits, but right is right.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
My question is, what does the P&W or Jacobs engine have to do with a Nieuport 11. You state that you will "Probably stick one of the two I have on my.....Nieuport 11, even though its not a LeRhone Radial." That's an even bigger scale faux pas than putting a UMF cowl on a WACO and calling it a YMF. And LeRhone built rotary engines, which are a bit different from radials.

Actually, the dummy that Dick put in his Y/UMF is a close fit for scale. The cylinder heads are fairly well buried in the curve of the cowl front. After all, the close fit is why there are blisters, so the valve rocker boxes have clearance. My only observation regarding his dummy engine mount is that there should be the #1 cylinder straight up at the top. Stickbuilder, you missed a few nits, I picked 'em for ya
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:25 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

I just ordered this ARF from my LHS and am thinking of either a Saito 1.00 or maybe the RCV91. The RCV91 is a lower profile and may fit inside the cowl withought having to cut it up. Then again it is 25% heavier than the Saito... Thoughts?
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:32 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

I've heard they are great engines, have no personal experience, but I'm surprised that they are that much heavier than the Saito. I guess it has to do with the rotating cylinder liner and gears to drive it. The plane should be able to bear the extra weight without trouble though.
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:03 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale


ORIGINAL: khodges

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


ORIGINAL: MANFRED

This dummy radial, although very complete, does not look anywhere near the right scale, need one for a much smaller cowl. Probably stick one of the two i have on my Balsa usa nieuport 11, looks more like the right size even though it's not a leRhone radial.
Manfred,

Not trying to pick nits here, but what does the LeRhone engine have to do with the WACO, and the LeRhone was a Rotary engine, and not a radial. The WACO with the cowl that is supplied with this ARF should have the 7 cylinder Continental engine to match the cowling with the paired blisters, which makes this one a UMF. In order to be a YMF, the engine should be a copy of the Jacobs which uses the non paired, or evenly spaced blisters. As I said, not picking nits, but right is right.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
My question is, what does the P&W or Jacobs engine have to do with a Nieuport 11. You state that you will "Probably stick one of the two I have on my.....Nieuport 11, even though its not a LeRhone Radial." That's an even bigger scale faux pas than putting a UMF cowl on a WACO and calling it a YMF. And LeRhone built rotary engines, which are a bit different from radials.

Actually, the dummy that Dick put in his Y/UMF is a close fit for scale. The cylinder heads are fairly well buried in the curve of the cowl front. After all, the close fit is why there are blisters, so the valve rocker boxes have clearance. My only observation regarding his dummy engine mount is that there should be the #1 cylinder straight up at the top. Stickbuilder, you missed a few nits, I picked 'em for ya
Au Contraire mon Enfant.... This model is actually a UMF with the cowl for the Continental 7 cylinder radial engine, and as such, the #1 clyinder is at bottom dead center, unlike the YMF with the Jacobs engine that places the #1 cylinder at top dead center. The model is correct, but the nomenclature is not, therefore the nits that I picked are correct and in place, Nes't ces pas? Or should that be Nicht whar?

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Old 03-09-2007, 09:04 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

You guys are killing me. If it says Waco on the thread" all the brothers will show up"
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

But non, mon cherie, even the Continental has the No. 1 cylinder at TDC.
Evan, WB #12.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:17 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale


ORIGINAL: pimmnz

But non, mon cherie, even the Continental has the No. 1 cylinder at TDC.
Evan, WB #12.
Si Si, Oui Oui, Jahwohl, and hell yeah
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Old 03-10-2007, 05:27 AM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

Are you sure about that?

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Old 03-10-2007, 05:28 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale


ORIGINAL: Ricatic

You guys are killing me. If it says Waco on the thread" all the brothers will show up"
Yeah, there is a thread in the jet forum titled WACO, and that one is about some podunk town in Texas...Go figger!!!

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Old 03-10-2007, 09:33 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

Oh Master Stickbuilder, most radials have No1 cylinder sticking up, cos that means the bottom ones aint sticking vertically down, and oiling the plug(s). Even Continentals on Waco UPF/UMF models, nes ce pas?
Evan, WB #12.
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale


ORIGINAL: pimmnz

Oh Master Stickbuilder, most radials have No1 cylinder sticking up, cos that means the bottom ones aint sticking vertically down, and oiling the plug(s). Even Continentals on Waco UPF/UMF models, nes ce pas?
Evan, WB #12.
Yeah, I wuz wrong, again...But I ain't wrong about this turkey being an UMF, and not a YMF. Sheesh, talk about yer false advertising.....

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Old 03-10-2007, 11:59 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

I found out some info today on radial orientation. Single row engines are mounted with a cylinder straight up at the top (#1) Twin row have the rear row oriented like that, and the front row, being offset for cooling, will have a cylinder straight down. I was looking at some engine pics and noticed a P-47 had its engine "upside down", until I did some reading.

And whichever way the engines are oriented, oil still collects in the bottom cylinders. On 7 cyl. engines, that is #4 and #5, and on 9 cyl, it's #5 and #6. Recommended practice for start-up is to pull the engine through two complete revolutions to clear the oil. If any resistance beyond normal compression is felt, the front plugs must be removed and the oil drained from those cylinders. A small amount of oil may not cause any resistance,and gets blown out at start-up as blue smoke (dry start) or oil droplets (wet start); but if enough collects to fill the combustion chamber, a hydraulic lock occurs, and if the engine is forced through the lock, severe damage can occur, from bent connecting rods to complete separation of the cylinder from the block. Try this site, great reading for radial buffs:

www.radialengines.com There is a menu to select from, and a number of articles in pdf format written by one of the mechanics/engineers. This company is the formost rebuilder/overhauler of small radials in the US
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:31 AM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

And I believe that WACO Brother #20 has the definative answer on this particuler question. What's next?
Evan, WB#12.
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Old 03-11-2007, 02:55 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

The local WACO.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:20 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

I'm still waiting for my 1/6 Waco to arrive and am considering yet another engine in addition to the Saito 1.00 and RCV .91 CD. I am wondering how the Zenoah G20EI would work out in this model. It is heavier (29 ozs. vs around 20 ozs. for the Saito) but should require a smaller fuel tank.

Dick, I believe you said your Waco was just shy of 9 lbs. with a very light Saito .82 (17 ozs). The advertised weight for the Waco is a max 8.5 lbs. I don't think that is acheivable with any engine in the recommended range unless you have added extras (smoke?). Just wondering how the weight and balance would work out with the Zenoah. I like to build 'em light in general but the draw of a small gasses in this model is great!
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:23 AM
  #45  
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

I measured it again last night and it weighs 8 pounds 5 ounces with no nose weight added.

The battery is inder the main LG inside the little hatch.

The Zenoah would require some tail weight and probably would weigh more than 9 pounds, maybe closer to 10 pounds once you add the large size battery it needs for the ignition box.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

HEY HEY HEY Stickbuilder,
If your're gonna say it, at least say it right. It pronounced (Wack' O)
Edwin

edit - Forgot to ask, Maidened yet?
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

Thanks for the info Dick. I have read that the Zenoah does draw a relatively large amount of current for the EI. I generally don't fly more than 3-4 flights on any given day and carry a quick field charger to top off my packs so I may be able to get by with a smaller (1500 mAh, NiMH) pack which is fairly light.

I am anxious to hear how yours flies at 8 lbs. 5 ozs., it should be sweet! If it turns out it is a brick at idle power I will re-consider the Zenoah in favor of a Saito.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

The G-20 should fly the 1/5 scale, so as far as power goes, no problem for the 1/6, but it might be a job to stuff it in the smaller cowl without some surgery.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:51 AM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale

Flew the 1/6 scale PICA WACO yesterday in a 10 to 15 MPH gusty wind. It was difficult to trim but I did have to add almost 3/8" of down elevator trim to fly straight and level hands off, once the wind died down later in the day.

I know it may be correctable by relocating the horizontal stab with positive incedence, but I really cannot make major modifications to review planes, unless they are safety related.

The down trim still allows inverted flight with very little down input.

Recommended aileron and elevator throws are a little on the excessive side. I tamed them down to smooth out the controls.

The Saito 82 is all the power this plane needs. I flew at half throttle all day and it was flying a lot faster than scale speed.

Here's some photos:
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:39 AM
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Default RE: COX Pica WACO 1/6 scale


ORIGINAL: pettit

Flew the 1/6 scale PICA WACO yesterday in a 10 to 15 MPH gusty wind. It was difficult to trim but I did have to add almost 3/8" of down elevator trim to fly straight and level hands off, once the wind died down later in the day.

I know it may be correctable by relocating the horizontal stab with positive incedence, but I really cannot make major modifications to review planes, unless they are safety related.

The down trim still allows inverted flight with very little down input.

Recommended aileron and elevator throws are a little on the excessive side. I tamed them down to smooth out the controls.

The Saito 82 is all the power this plane needs. I flew at half throttle all day and it was flying a lot faster than scale speed.

Here's some photos:
Dick,

Have a look in the Vintage and Antique forum with the WACO YMF heading, and you can see how I set the Horizontal Stab up with vairiable incidence. It works wxtremely well. I have had the same experience as did you when flying the 1/5th scale model when using the Pica setup. This feature should eliminate this.

Bill, AMA 4720
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