kmac

F1,
Very good info, you are bang on with your views. This plane will not, nor was it designed
for 3d or heavy control inputs. Mike M. said he only used high rates for landing, and that he had no problems with tight turns with full low rate elevator.
I`m going to get one, as I`ve got the GP Minnow, and the GP Gee Bee. When I was YOUNGER, flew a Prather Lil Toni. My only drawback is I can`t swing a motor right now, but have a Super Tigre 2300, the new Chinese made version. Looking at some mag reviews, it turns the same size props as the new OS 200 single cylinder, but averaging
300-400 LESS r.p.m. I think I`ll try it, as i`m not out to get top mph. They are awesome mills, easy starting, plus I already have one! Makes getting the plane easier with the spousal unit....
Any thoughts as to this setup guys??
Take care,
Kerry

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

I have a 2300 and darn nice engine but I think you will be way underpowered in this thing. Can you swing a 3250?

kmac

Thanks Cyclic Hardover,

Never thought of the 3250. Mike Mc. said the lighter , the better. He feels a Saito 1.80 would work when I asked him `bout the 2300. The 2300 is close to the 180. How do you feel the 3250 would stack up against some of the preffered mills, like the Evolution25.
Is it similiar in weight? If we are in the same ballpark as the Moki 1.80 to 2.10, in weight as well as power, then that would be doable. I will have to sneak a new motor in, maybe in the bottom of a BIG vase of flowers, or a new bottle of perfume in a shoe-box. My new Red Wing shoe box would work, put a false floor, a cardborad divider above the motor. Or I could.....Heck, she`s got radar, she would know in a second what I`ve done.
But give me "A" for effort !! So your thoughts?

Thank you again for your help. Cyclic.
Kerry

asnook

HI Guys

I am getting nervous, are you guys Pylon racing or just flying normally. I bought this model because i like the shape and intend to fly it the same as any of my other planes, the occasional loop, roll etc.
I have H9 Skylane 150,H9 texan,H9 super cub,H9 Spitfire,Dual Ace,Top Flite Cessna 310,GP Lancair,H9 Mentor,GP Stearman,H9 Thunderbolt 150.

I have no trouble flying these but my fear is that after reading these posts I won't be up to flying the SD.

Comments please

Alan

F1 Rocket

Given the planes you listed I don't think you should have a problem. Set it up per the recommendations I and others have suggested and go have fun.


Danny

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

The 2300 (1.4) may be close in cu in size numbers but we're talking a 2 and 4 stroke here. Performance wise, the Saito 180 is not even close.Would pull is very well. But a 3250 is under $200 and the 180 is about $400? I would not install anything less than a 1.60 in the thing for just general flying around.

kmac

Hey Cyclic,
Thanks for your pointers. I know the 2300 is a 2, and the Saito 180 is a 4cyc, guess the point I was trying to make is across the board, the 2300 isn`t that far off using the same props as the new OS200, or even the Saito 180. But in this application, that difference of
even 4 to 600 rpm on the same props as the motors we have talked about can and will make a big difference. It would probably tax the 2300. The 2300 works on a 13lb warbird, but that is a very different breed. I would like to use what I`ve got, but it doesn`t look like it will work, so looking around will turn up other options.
After flying pylon (quickie 500, Q-40) up here for a while, don`t need to do 130 +. If I work at it, hopefully I`ll find a combo that will be lighter, but still do a good turn of speed.
Don`t need or want a EVO 25, or the 25 gas motors. Prefer glow fuel, don`t care about
the gas vs. glow fuel use debate. Thanks for bringing the 3250 to my attention, completely forgot about that bugger!
I`m guessing there are others who want to fly the SD for sport, a hot sport plane, and have no need to race it, and are looking for alternative modse of power. I`ll take a lighter, reasonably powerfull setup over the chosen fire breather any day. Lighter flys better as we know. Thinking the Mokis would be a good one to look at too.
What were you using/putting in yours Cyclic?
Keep up the great posts guys, info shared is info learned.....

Kerry

Nathan King

You will be fine. Aside from the empennage failure I believe the other crashes were pilot error. Speed doesn't matter. A plane can stall at ANY airspeed or attitude (even pointed down AND going fast). The ONLY way to stall an airplane is to fly at high angles of attack. If you fly it as it was intended (don't float it) and keep the stalling characteristics mentioned in mind you will be fine.

Every airplane design is a compromise. This one goes fast, and consequently does not handle slow speeds as well; however, it won't fall out of the sky.

Have Fun!

GR7Racer

kmac....

I actually think that your 2300 might be ok. It will certainly be light and fly pretty well. The airplane has been flown by Mike McConville with an EVO 25 on gas/ignition at around 75 mph, so a 2300 on glow would be pretty close to that I would think. 23cc on glow vs 25cc on gas. Build it light, prop it right, and have some fun. With that engine you should be able to build it under 13 lbs, so if the 2300 will fly a warbird at that weight, it shoud be fine in the SD.

I'm KMac Too !! (KennyMac)

akular1

For everyone that has installed a Moki 2.10, can someone please provide me with their setups as far as prop sizes. Also, what do you recommend as far as the type of fuel. I hear 5% or 10%. Any input would be appreciated

Best,
Andy K

asnook

I am planning to fit a Saito 180, If i can fit a flexible muffler all well and good but I am not sure if there is room. As a fall back I am trying to find the part number and price for the exhaust adaptor shown in the instructions. I have contacted Horizon who are investigating, has anyone seen or purchased this part. Thanks

tIANci

I am getting my plane at the end of this month. Just want to know who has the lightest set up so far. Mine will be EP so I wanna plan for the power plant. Thanks! Oh yeah one thing more ... I watched the H9 video ... does she really have to come in that fast?

jasonred007

read the threads lots of info

kid chuckles

I have the Saito 180 on my Sundowner have not gotten it airborne as of yet. The part your asking about is the Rt. angle muffler adapter part # SAI120S140 Could use a longer exhaust extension on mine though. I have installed an on board glow to mine as well. Only thing I had to do was drill hole for needle valve, Using the onboard glow. If not you will have to cut for your ignitor. Hope it flys well. MIKE MConiville says it flys very well with this motor. Just does not have the high speed of the big gasser. The 180 has some awsume torc.
Has anyone else tried flying the Sundowner with the Saito 180 on it. And Jason don't want to sort thru 300 posts. Have already read about half of them and no mention of the 180 in any of the ones I have read. Gonna have a blast with this one now i can retire my Super Cub.
Actually have read them all lol got bored i guess and trying to find out everything about this plane before i try mine as i am pretty much a novice.

reincarnate

Nope...Faster. I got a pm from Mike M after I asked him the same question before I flew mine. e said that there was a tremendous crosswind that day, hence the increased airspeed and the crab approach. The one (and thus far only) landing I made was hot and fast as to avert a disastrous stall on approach. Bent the stock axles, and have since replaced with titanium ones, but I think it can come in slower than my first shot. Hopefully it'll get out a couple of more times this year. Stupid job of mine won't let me fly as often as I like. I'd quit if I didn't need more airplanes!


Now that we've all been flying this for a while, has anyone tried a flaperon setup yet?

tIANci

reincarnate - I noticed the cross wind. i worry.

canucksrc

I'm freaked out about this whole thing! I'm running the Evo 26Gt and will run the CG at 3" and dremel out the wheel pants. I'm going to use the Postive expo's listed on my 9303 and let our president fly here. I would hate to wreck this amazing looking plane on the first flight out.

I'll post the link to the vid next weekend,
P

reincarnate

Don't worry canuck! It's just an airplane! Flies the same as all the rest of them. I really think and hope that balsafire's experience was an isolated incident, being as no one, on any of the other forums I visit has had such an occurrence. Fly her yourself, because your club pres can crash her just as as good as you can! Mine piled my Cap 232 in this summer.

I seriously think that all the hooha about this plane is overrated because (and please nobody take offense) a lot of fliers who weren't skilled enough to fly her bought it for the good looks of the airplane. Nothing wrong with that, we've all done it more than once. While it is a great sport flier when set up right and the bugs worked out, it's also a based on a racing platform. The wings are thin and the control surfaces are small, making keeping your speed managed well a necessity.

Also canuck, a lot (myself included) have had trouble with the carb settings on the Evo 26 going lean in the air, after you thought you had them dialed in perfect on the ground. The simple solution seems to be to try taking a piece of tape and covering the front of the cowl right in front of the carb. Apparently, the carb is suffering from a sort of "ram air" effect placed where it's at. When my new Extra is finished, I'm going to fabricate a velocity stack that is chamfered away from the cowl for a more permanent fix.

Fly it canuck! You'll find out you love it right after it leaves the ground. If it loves you too, it'll come back!

canucksrc

Hey reincarnate,

your right! If I can fly the wings of my 30%Yak and Heli's why could I not fly this bird. Forgot about the carb thing. I will get a carbon fiber to cover part of the intake.

I'll post vids of the flight or crash,
P

canucksrc

Hey reincarnate,

your right! If I can fly the wings of my 30%Yak and Heli's why could I not fly this bird. Forgot about the carb thing. I will get a carbon fiber to cover part of the intake.

I'll post vids of the flight,
P

jasonred007

No offense taken.... With mine I am sorry but there were some QC issues. I am an experienced flier but make mistakes like any one else. I dont believe that my motor box coming off the fuse in flight was really my fault, But I have been wrong B4.(just ask my wife) Take a look at my preflight posts before you judge my flying abilities, I had some QC issues. Canuuk don't be afraid it really flies nice and mine weighed 12.5 lbs. with a Magnum 180 AR the 3 1/8 CGworked well I put the battery in the back used the steel rods and added 1 oz to the back to achieve the CG. Fly it Enjoy it., as he said your pres. could break her just as easy as you could. Happy Flying....

GR7Racer

Did the maiden on my Sundowner today... A complete sucess!

I have mine setup with an Evo 35, so from the start of the build, I focused on moving weight as far back as I could. I placed the ignition module inside the fuse near the landing gear mounting block, placed the throttle servo and ignition kill switch servo aft of the wing tube in the fuse. I substituted a 12 oz tank for the stock one, and used a parallel battery and switch system for the flight pack with two 6V Nimh 720ma batteries in the tail...one just in front of the elevator servo, and one next to the rudder servo. Putting these batteries way back there allowed me to pull out the heavy metal stab rods and use the aluminum tubes instead. A 2 cell 860ma lipo powered the ignition and went in the fuse just aft of the wing tube. I picked up an Evolution radial/backplate mount for the engine to save some weight up front, and also ordered a lightened backplate for my tru-turn spinner. Tru-turn has a special spinner package just for the Sundowner with a special prop cut, lightened backplate, and propnut and spacer. Standard JR 821 servos and a Spektrum radio system rounded out the package. All up weight was a little under 13.75 lbs and I balanced at 3" back from the leading edge at the wing root.

Before I flew, I got out my incidence meter and checked the wing. It was nice and straight, but had no washout at the tips. Since I've heard and seen quite a few of these airplanes having stall/snap issues, I went ahead and used a heat gun to twist in 1 degree of washout at each tip. I highly recommend this because the airplane took off and flew great with zero trim required. I used the low rates printed in the assembly manual, and found them perfect. I didn't use the expo however, this plane flies smooth enough that you really don't need it. The airplane's angle of attack when sitting on the gear is ideal for takeoff and landing. When you power it up, it shows no tendency to nose over, and the rudder has plenty of authority to track straight down the runway. Landing was a little fast, but very stable. I slowed it down pretty good before touchdown, and was close to running out of elevator. I think I might setup a slightly higher elevator rate for landings.

The Evo started easy, but beware, you need to run this engine very rich initially to break it in. I had mine four cycling with just an occasional 2 cycle sound, and flew it around for 3-4 minutes this way, but it heated up and quit. Landed and richened it up a little bit. Took off and flew...same thing. 3-4 minutes and quit. Landed, richened, flew, and it finally kept running. The engine wasn't leaning out in flight, it was just getting hot, and once it starts getting hot, it just gets hotter until it quits. Apparently this is just a tight engine that's going to need some break in. I flew 3 more times, and every flight the motor would run a little better, and actually sound a little richer even though I didn't touch the needle again. I figured I was making progress. I ended up switching from a 15x12 to a 14x14, and leaning out the engine about an 1/8th of a turn. Well it ran better, mostly 2 cycling, and went faster, but after about 5 minutes and a couple of loops, it got hot and quit again...still not broken in. On the cowl setup, I taped over the cowl inlet in front of the carb, and completely taped over the inlet on the opposite side of the motor. I left the lower air intake open, and made an extra air exit hole on the bottom of the cowl cheek just aft of the cylinder, so plenty of air is flowing over the cylinder.

Speeds were in the 100mph range, but again, it was rich the whole time. Tried hard to make the airplane snap, and I could do it with a full pull on the elevator, but it was a pretty mild snap that was quickly halted just by easing off the elevator a little. I think the CG and the washout helped this out. As the engine breaks in, and the plane goes faster, it will help even more. No signs of a stall on the landing approach, but I did keep my turns shallow and smooth, and made sure to descend all the way around the pattern. Anyway, thought I'd share. Keep those Evo's rich in the beginning, check for 1 degree of washout, put the CG at 3" to start, keep it light, and stop worrying and go have fun.

KennyMac

kid chuckles

Hope you fella's are right. Going to maiden mine today. Have really took alot of time with this plane trying to make sure everything is correct. Will set the GZ this morning and then off to the field. Mine has a 180 on it and have not seen anything much about anyone flying it with this motor. It is still pretty light. Added the onboard glow. Jr 821 servos 6v. 4 cell batteries have drimmiled the wheel pants as seen that on here (thanks for that). the alum. stab rod, Spektrum setup 8 channel. If I don't crash it today then FLAMES will be going on the cowl. And the name of my company across the bottom of the wings. Done in a flame type scheme also. Would like to post some pic's but pretty pc dumb and seems the more i try to do on here the worse this thing acts lol. 7:11am and can't wait really nervous though hope i don't drop my radio or throw up or something. Fly a big Ultra Stick, Chipmunk, Twist, Eratix, (sweet plane flys itself), nothing that is fast though. Wish me luck.

thunder34

Congratulations on your maiden! Thank you very much for the well written info.

reincarnate

Well Chuckles, how'd it go?