efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi, I'm having difficultuy setting up one of these and was wondering if anyone's tried one.

With a YS FZ110 on the nose, the plane seems to be coming up very tail heavy (CG about mid chord). Since the wingspan isn't too generous to begin with, I don't fancy adding lots of lead.

Does anyone have any experience with this plane and if so, could you please help? Any tips suggestions would be great!

Thanks.

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

I got ahold of one of them...I'm actually going to put on a 140DZ as I thought the weight might be a bit heavy for a smaller 4-stroke...

4900 grams come out to about 10 pounds and 12 ounces. You will want a 120 to 140 2-Stroke or a 1.40 4-Stroke....

There appears to be some room for the cowl to adjust in or out...I would recommend moving the engine out further (away from the fire wall) either with shims, box mod, or an engine mount with longer beams. I would do this prior to adding weight. It looks like the cowl will give you about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch of room to play with...For this plane, I believe the best option is a bigger engine.

Look at the glue joint closely, you may want to add or touch up if it's like mine. I plan on beefing up the engine box and I noticed that atleast two joints are in need of epoxy.

Looks like a good plane for the money, great value. Just needs a little attention in the building processes to make sure it stays together for you in the air...Good Luck and let us know how it goes...

Larry Diamond

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

Forgot to ask...

Where did you put the Elevator and Rudder Servo's?

LD

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Larry. small confession - I've already flown mine. Yes, I needed to reinforce some joints with glue and/or tristock; but these were few and the plane is reasonably robust compared to the more recent lightweight designs. Previously, it had a 26cc gas engine. Believe it or not, that balanced the plane nicely with 2 batts in the engine box. Main problem was that I found that the wing loading was all but destroyed - all was well above about 1/3 throttle, but below that, the plane would tip stall unpredictably. This is only a 65.5" wingspan and I suspect wing area is pretty low with those tapered wings. Just eyeballing it, it seems most current 60-90 sized panes have at least as much if not typically more wing area.

Even with the gas engine, mine built up surprisingly light. With 2 batteries, the stock wing spar and landing gear (which are very heavy), I got my AUW to under 10lbs; I think it was closer to 9lbs. I was surprised; think the 4.9KG quoted is based on dual servos for each surface plus some further allowance. Pretty sure the FZ110 will be more than enough to hover the plane. I had spoken to the son of the business owner (named Will) and he said the plane had been factory tested (for 3D flight) with an OS 91 2 stroke. That's about the same weight but with less usable torque than the FZ110. Haven't weighed my current setup yet, but I'm going glow just to lower the wing loading and make the slow flight performance more acceptable.

Even at under 10lbs, a harrier didn't seem possible regardless of how much power you had.

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

How did you mount the servos for elev and rudder? In the tail or in the fuse closer to CG? Did you use Pull-Pull?

Interesting...I'm going to buy CF wing tube and main gear to reduce the weight. I would say at 9 pounds I would suspect the YS FZ110 would be ok...I don't have any experience with the FZ110.

When I was looking at the plane, I also noticed the WS and suspected the wing area to be very small and was actually surpised it was a 1.40 because of it. But the weight was in the 140 range. I got mine as it was a great value and I have a 140DZ laying around. Not really into the hovering thing, but might give it a try...My plan was to use it as a IMAC practice plane and burn holes in the sky.

Kinda funny that I'll pay more for replacing the Wing Tube and Gear than I paid for the plane (including shipping)...

Let us know how it worked out with the FZ110...

LD

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Larry, think I'm using the stock setup up - dual elevator servos in the tail and a single rudder servo on pull-pull.

Well, I have no experience with the 140 dingo, but the FZ110 has fabulous power to weight. Haven't weighed the plane with it on, but I think I'll be coming up at about 8 lbs so I'll have at least 1.5:1 power to weight.

Just baffled as to why the plane appears to be incapable of slow speed flight! Also wondering how the factory managed to balance their plane with the OS 91 as they claim.... Chickened out and decided not to fly the plane today even though everything was ready. This CG thing is not something I normally worry about but I figure I really don't need to risk the plane.

Think I'll wait and see if anyone else has had any experience.

flying4fun

hey guys I am in college and I am so glad to hear that someone has one of these! I have a saito 180 that I was going to put on it but I am not sure about the weight! it seems really tail heavy. do you think that it would hover with and saito 125? i really want to do 3d so let me know what you think about it all. have a great day!!!

2robinhood

I have the WillHobby Yak 54 ( 1.40 size ) it it is an extremely tail heavy built plane.
I did a pull / pull rudder, two servos in the tail for the elevators, put a Brillelli 36cc gasser in it, and still had to add 9oz. of nose weight.
But, the Yak flys great.
From slow, smooth , three point landings to unlimited verticle.

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Flyingforfun, haven't flown mine on glow yet, but I would think the 125 would do nicely. My saito 100 will puts out about 11.5 lbs of thrust and your AUW should be about 8lbs or just over so you should have enough for basic hovering and such. 125 should be better.... I'm not such a good 3D pilot so frankly, for stalled flight down low, I'd probably fly something else.

On the balance issue, I've posted in another forum:-
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68...tm.htm#6873000
Problem with the Extra is the wing area - I'm convinced an AUW of about 8lbs is required for the plane to fly decently. I'm not expecting it to be to float real well even then. I think with the 125, a spinner and the cowl attached, you should be able to get to to balance out without resorting to adding any lead.

Thanks for the info 2robinhood. Wished I had gotten the Yak instead - it's got more wingspan and looks to have considerably more wing area. Then again, I think the Yak is new and wasn't out when I bought my Extra.

Brainiax

i'm building this model right now. I have a OS 120 AX mounted and am using a single high torque servo with a pushrod for the rudder. I haven't installed the elevator servo's yet but right now it seems to balance pretty well. I suspect a bit of a tail weight issue after I install them though. this has been quite a challenging model. Did you notice how the wing attachment screws are all but impossible to get to? I had to make long thumb screws.

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Brian, main problem I found with the screw locations was that I couldn't put the fuel tank on the CG and still get at the forward screws. Had to move the tank forward slightly to allow access. Actually, for the longer term, if I were to keep the plane, I'd swap out the forward screws for anti-rotation pins and make life a whole lot easier.

Right now, I'm using caphead screws and although it is a little fiddly, I've not had too many problems getting the screws in or out either with a Bondhurst type bezeled allen key or a hex mounted on an extension driven with a micro ratchet wrench. Think they're M4 blind nuts in the wing.

On the rudder, I do prefer pull-pull setups, but the oversized servo horn provided needs to be changed if you're using a box pull-pull. Guess it would work if you crossed the cables.

Do let me know how it flies with the OS120. Thanks.

Brainiax

Hello, that OS120 is scary. I ran one tank on the test stand and it nearly took off, table and all........ I think its going to have no trouble pulling this plane through the air. The right wing, front mounting blind nut came loose and dropped inside the wing. I only have the rear screw, a pin and the main tube for support. The idea of a pin in the front sounds like the best thing to do in my case. Thanks for the idea. BTW, I haven't gotten into the wing aileron servo install yet but it looks like when you cut away the covering there's nothing there to mount the servo. It came with 2 covers and some blocks but what does the cover fasten to? The manual is beyond awful.

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Brian, I like my YS 110 for much the same reason - unreal power in a small package that feeds and transitions the same regardless of how much fuel there is in the tank or the attitude of the plane.

I worked out a system where I would slip a small piece of fuel tubing over the wing bolts when I removed the wings. keeps the bolts in place and saves you having to try and thread them though whenever you want to fit the wings on. Honestly, I think the plane is decently built; just that the design could have used a bit more thought!

The ailerons - only used one per wing (think the designers thought people would fly the plane with standard servos!). But its a fairly common attachment system, especially for older planes - just epoxy the hard wood blocks onto the hatch covers to fit your servos. It does take a little more work to get things aligned, but it does look a LOT neater when you're done.

Hope that helps. And I'm more keen than ever to hear your flight report!

skip1320

Hello all, looking to buy the w/hobby extra,anyone know were to purchase,the BAY guy just shut down,any info would be great thanks

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

I believe this is their website:

http://www.willhobby.com/

For me, I didn't have any problems with them on e-bay. Shipment was fast as the plane showed up before I expected it and was a smooth transaction. However, he appears to have a really bad last month with almost all negative feedback.

To me it means one of two things...He lost a bunch of money and couldn't recover, or he had some type of personal issue causing him to not respond. Many of the negative feedbacks are lack of response and shipment not received.

Proceed with caution. To be fair, he may have a very valid reason about why and what happened...

LLD

skip1320

http://www.willhobby.com/product/plane/np2_2.aspThis is the one i want,general hobby on bay has red,still trying to track yellow down,must be new,yea he shut down pretty quick,i just found him yesterday oh well,maybe the general can help,least i can follow build posts thanks,PS anybody have an wing area or AUW hoping to use 26 gasser thanks

skip1320

http://www.willhobby.com/product/plane/np2_2.asp

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

You can try e-mailing them and asking for the color scheme you like...They were pretty flexible with me....

LLD

Brainiax

the further I get with building this plane the more interesting it get's. Anyone notice the two rear mounted servos interfere with each other? I had to stand off the mounts with extra grommets. BTW, the two elevator servos require the arms to point downward on both sides requiring some settings in the radio to make them operate in the opposite direction? Or, do I need a reversing y-harness? Never had to deal with this before. Thanks, B-

KidVermin

My Feedback: (3)

There was still room to cut a new elevator servo opening to miss the other servo and be above the rudder cables. I left about 3/16" of wood below the factory covered opening where I cut the new servo placement so there would still be a good wood to film contact. With the 91 4c , I had to add about 9oz of lead to balance, even with the rudder servo between the wings. I didn't think the soft aluminum landing gear would hold up, so I used a 4-40 servo rod as a cross brace mid way down each side. Not sure why the Extra called for 4 aileron servos and the longer Edge only 2. I just used the 2 in-board servos. With the wing bolts so hard to get to, I made up 8-32 threaded rod extensions with J hooks and brass tubing couplers soldered to the ends and 3" springs to join each side. Since two of the wing hold-down t nuts were oversized, I epoxied the extensions in the wings and opened slots in the fuse sides for them to fit through.
The WillHobby Edge came out nose heavy (no lead) with the same setup and the gear is much heavier. Just wish the the company would have matched the cub yellow of the plane on the cowl and pants. Would have saved me the time of masking and painting over the chrome yellow. Both seem to be decent planes, but I'll have to wait for Spring thaw to find out. At less than $100 each to my door, these are great bargains even with some mods required.

mgmarty

My Willhobby Extra came last week!
I had planned on putting an SPE 26cc gasser on it. It only wieghs 2.9 lbs, and thats with muffler and ignition. Can you give you tell me what the wieght is of the engines you are using, and whether your tail, or nose, heavy. Thank you.

mgmarty

I forgot to mention. I bought my willhobby extra from an ebay store called hobby-4-less. They have, what seems to me, all of the Willhobbby aircraft. They where fast too.

KidVermin

My Feedback: (3)

Without accurate scales, my Enya 4c weighs approx. 1 1/2 lbs with 9 oz of lead screwed to the side of the engine box at the firewall and the battery up in the fuel box near the firewall. They are so close in size, but my Edge, I mounted the battery behind the wing and the rudder servo just in front of that and it still came out nose heavy. I sorta felt short change since the Extra was labeled as 140 size and the Edge being 90 size. Thinking there was an error in the ebay add where it should have been 75.5" not the 65.5" and the so called smaller Edge 90 was 70.5"
You should be pretty close with no lead. I hope they sent the correct manual, I got the FW 190 booklet with my Edge.

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi mgmarty, I flew mine with a CRRC Pro 26 which weighs just a little more (100g or less difference, I think) than the SPE 26. I have the SPE 26 as well and although its a decent engine, I've found it a little low on power.

I found my plane seemed to balance ok with the CRRC and two 1200mAH NiCD batteries stuck in the engine box. In retrospect, this setup was a little nose heavy but it would be a simple matter to move one or both batteries aft. The problem seemed to be the wing loading of the plane - it became unstable at low speeds and it never got slow enough for me to land comfortably.

I'm really hoping yours works out cuz I bought the plane for the CRRC Pro. Have a buncha other projects on my plate for now, but I'm interested to hear how yours works out.

Brainiax

mine is nearing completion, pictures to follow.