Clay Walters

I've read numerous threads where folks debate the virtues and pitfalls of ARF's and their impact on the "Hobby" or the "Industry" but wanted to share my observations to this point.

As to background; I'm a medocre hobbiest that has assembled a few kits over the years and to be honest, never had one that just went smoothly. And as I near the completion of my 2nd ARF ever (both this year) I find myself nearly as challenged as I have been with building kits.

One of the problems with both I truly believe is the expectations I have going into one. Each time I have high hopes to stumble upon that model that goes together just as explained in the manual. Each time I find myself making adjustments - sometimes because I use different components than the ones used in the manual, sometimes because I want to modify the plane from stock, and sometimes in error because I misunderstood the directions or did something out of sequence. So not all of my frustration is the manufacturers fault, sometimes its mine.

But mostly I'm careful and am trying to assemble it so it will stay together and perform properly.

My preconcieved notion that a kit builder earns his wings more than an ARF assembler has diminished somewhat. While I truly feel that wrestling with kits has helped me immensely with the challenges of assembling an ARF, I now feel that the challenges of assembling an ARF will assist a person deciding to tackle a kit.

I'm certain that an enthusiast that has graduated to plan building and then even further to scratch building has infinitely more patience and skill than I possess. What I also now believe is that while starting further down the ladder with a kit usually means a longer time frame before I arrive at a ready-to-fly model; I'm much more "comfortable" with the progess and the model because I see everything come together prior to being shrouded by covering. In the past its been the covering process I dreaded because I lack the skills in working with the material and by that point have always been impatient to just "get'r done".

That impatience is what gets me into the most trouble and its aggravated by low-grade hardware, lacking instruction and less than clear illustrations. But the impatience is all mine.

Those of you that can toss an ARF together in a weekend now have my admiration just as do the kit builders that can assemble a kit and cover it with the same skill that the ARF manufacturers do.

Muddying along,

Clay

dignlivn

Clay,


The older I get, the more I appreciate Arfs.
I am currently building a A. Hog and enjoying
it very much. However I still go over every
inch of an arf to check for airworthyness.

If the Arf manufacturers would just cover their
planes in One color and leave the rest for the
end user. They (arfs) would not all look alike.

JMO


Bob

outdoorhunting

I agree with Clay. I started out " buying my 1st trainer complete, rebuilding it many, many times. After I got used to it, I bought another "complete plane" I then bought an ARF flew it for awhile. I decided I needed the "experience" of building my first kit ( 4*40). I have since built 5 kits. Last summer I built a Mid West Super Hots (60 size) from plans. It came out great, which to be honest, kinda surprised me. I'm somewhat of a "perfectionist" but it seems I always settle for less. I just bought another ARF from Nitro ( Zlin 50) & am starting on a GP Extra 300S kit. Long story short; I think that is what makes this hobby so great, no matter what level you choose to participate; ARFs, kits , scratch building, from plans, whatever! The other guys in the club are always interested in what you're doing & visa-versa. Whatever your level of skill, it seems like the hobby has a place for you. We have a guy at our field that builds beautifull planes, I mean beautifull !! I had never seen him fly. Iasked one of the older members what the deal was. He said,oh, yea, he can fly, better than anybody out here, he likes to build them. I got to see him fly this summer, all I could say was , WOW !!

Rufcut

I started out with ARF's then built a 4*40 kit then back to ARF's. My last ARF was a Big Stik 60 from Great Planes and the quality was very disappointing. With the recent price hikes in ARF land, I'm going back to kits. The overall price will probably be greater with the kit but spread out over the course of several months it's a little easier on my budget. Plus, I really enjoy the time I spend building. The problem is a lack of kits, so I may try to buy plans and have the kit cut for me.

JimO

My Feedback: (7)

Rufcut, I agree building is a source of relaxation and satisfaction for me. As for the lack of kits if you really look hard on line at all the different threads and RC URL it is amazing what you can find. I hunted down a Mosquitobite Tri-Pacer from a fellow flier in Canada. This is an awesome kit and a real shame they are not still available, It is a builders dream kit.

Also as you mentioned about plans, with so many people now offering laser cutting o plans it is surly a way to go. I have like you assembled a couple of ARF's and have enjoyed flying them, but there is nothing like taking a box of wood and making it your own.


JimO

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Clay, you have done a good job of putting your honesty into words.

I've been involved with model airplanes for some 56 years and have built more kits and done more scratch building than many on here. In the last 10 years I have assembled mostly ARF's. However, some of these have been modified to suit my taste.

I've seen people mess up ARF's just as bad as if they were building a kit. And I've also seen people that build good kits and also do an excellent job on an ARF. I have friends that think ARF's are the corruption of society. They only own scratch built planes and speak bad of ARF owners. It takes all kinds of people?

Ram Jet

I've built from plans and enjoy it very much but I have to admit it sometimes gets tedious. Sometimes I reach a point in construction that I don't want to tackle and have to drag myself kicking and screaming back to the project. I think that buying an "Almost Ready to Cover" might be nice in that you could apply what you have learned from scratch building or kit building to improving the aircraft's structure. I don't care for applying covering but I'm OK with it.

I think you may have the same affliction that I have I have never built anything that I've been totally satisfied with. Static display models, black powder rifle kits, fuel powered model boats, planes etc. I am always very critical of my own work. Thankfully my memory fades and years later my completed project looks better and better and I forget my construction regrets and mistakes.

I am getting a Brodak Oriental ARF for Xmas. I thought the plane would come all white so I could apply graphics as I see fit. Unfortunately there is some green and gold trim on it which I will attempt to remove. I am looking forward to just concentrating on proper assembly and flying balance and final trim. This is my first ARF and I think it's going to be fun not getting buried in the minute sanding, cutting, fitting and detail fuss. In the end if it doesn't fly well, providing I have done a proper job of balancing and assembly, I now have somebody else to blame

Bill

foodstick

The nice thing about the variety of arfs/kits/plans/scratch, is that if you tire of one you can do the other ..want to fly and need a plane fast ? arfs, want to build and have some time ?, kits...Just want something unique? ..plans and scratch.

As long as you don't hit the overall burnout point (and I have before) then you have lots of options...

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Good thread , at 48 my coaching and running all the time is slowing down with the boys , so I have a nice choice .I have a nice stock pile of Platt kits that I really want to build and tweak to my styles .On the other side its exciting opening up a box and seeing a model that is really sweet !!! So I guess its a good time if you have some kits and arfs in your suger bowl , its all good and all fun !!! I was in a shop today , we were drooling over how well the H9 P40 is covered out of the box lol , its flawless .
If I could only cover that way

Stickbuilder

I'm thinking that I'll stay out of this one.



Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Good thread , at 48 my coaching and running all the time is slowing down with the boys , so I have a nice choice .I have a nice stock pile of Platt kits that I really want to build and tweak to my styles .On the other side its exciting opening up a box and seeing a model that is really sweet !!! So I guess its a good time if you have some kits and arfs in your suger bowl , its all good and all fun !!! I was in a shop today , we were drooling over how well the H9 P40 is covered out of the box lol , its flawless .
If I could only cover that way

chashint

I don't have an outrageous number of planes but I do have to many planes to fly on a regular basis.
Even so, I like to get a new plane every now and then.
Building airplanes out of kits helps keep the collection from getting totally out of control.
I have a couple of ARFs and they are great in their own right too, it is just very easy to collect a lot of them very quickly.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

ya , I have stop collecting , my stash is reaching beyond my lifespan [X(], I have it figured on how long its takes me to build/bash and I cant leave any ARF alone , so production and out put is slow !!!!
My Plat FwD9- I started it a month ago in a differant part of the house .I spent three nights releasing all the parts , then putting holes in all the ribs and fuse formers and that where it sits for now. The olds kits were designed in my opinion way heavire then they needed to be

outdoorhunting

I'm with you, chashint. I'm getting too many planes in the hanger. You can only fly one at a time. I can't seem to stop falling in love with this kit or that. For a while I was keeping 2 planes in the hanger. ( One for backup in case of a crash or engine problems). Well, I don't know if I'm getting to be a "better pilot, or a more "cautious pilot". All of a sudden I have 6 ready to fly, 1 waiting for an engine,2 kits waiting, & just bought an ARF at a "Black Friday"sale that I know I won't get to until March or so.. ( The price was just too good !!!!!!!!) Help, how do I break the vicious circle !!!!!!!! I just seen another kit I think I'm going to have to buy. It's called a Tsunami, at www.Junorc.com/kits.html It's too sweet to turn down. Here I go again !!!!!

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Yeah, me too. Us old timers from back in the early 2000's remember when you had to actually glue the horizontal stab in and install and glue the CA hinges in an ARF. Boy, the old days.

Deadeye

The great part about this hobby, is there are 2 distinct aspects to it - building & flying. Not all of us are builders, which is where the ARFs come in to play. Thankfully, I enjoy BOTH aspects of this hobby.

Stickbuilder

Early 2000's??????? Old Timers???????

Cough.....Choke....Gasp[:@][:@] I've got glue older than that.

Bill, AMA 4720

SunShyne

My Feedback: (68)

that actually made me chuckle, I recall the 90's when I got into R/C seriously and most ARF's required a fair amount of work and skill. Thanks for reminding me of those times...good stuff

Bob Mitchell

I enjoy flying tremendously, but don't believe that building kits is what I want to do. I'm only 10 flights or so into my second airplane, the Sig, (I got the H9 182 at a swap meet and it will probably sit until next spring) and to be honest didn't get all that much pleasure from assembling the two ARF's. Now, I'm not looking for someone or some company to just hand me an airplane that's ready to start and go fly, but I find the assembly to be tedious at best. I understand that it's in my best interest to know how the plane was put together, and how the pieces need to come together so as to make sure the control linkages, surfaces, etc all work properly together and so I can repair/fix as needed after the inevitable incidents. I just don't particularly enjoy it. That said, I will probably put a kit together this winter if for no other reason than to improve my repair and covering skills. I had to do some repairs to the fuse and covering on my Alpha this fall, and I shudder to think what it would have looked like had I tried to build it from a kit last spring.

What I don't really understand is the way some tend to look down their noses at those that fly planes which they assembled rather than built, or small non-IC planes that can be flown somewhere else other than a purpose built flying field, or whatever. It seems to me that the whole point is to find an aspect or aspects of the hobby that you enjoy, and then have at it. Why would I want to disparage someone who enjoys what they are doing, even though it may be different that what I'm doing? I'm not into heli's but there is a guy at our field who is a wizard with them and my jaw drops at some of the things he can make one do. I love watching him, but it doesn't make me want to fly a helicopter. Same thing with guys who are into scale detail. I've seem some awesome scale planes at events at my field or events I've attended, and enjoy looking at them and watching them fly. I appreciate the time, patience and skill that such takes. Doesn't make me want to build one, though.

Bob Mitchell

I gotta tell ya....when I found out that I was going to have to hinge the surfaces on the Sig, and solder the control rods I almost boxed it back up and returned it.

Stickbuilder

Personally,

I wish that you had done that very thing with the first one that you bought. Just think, you could be out playing golf or some other diversion.[>:]

Bill, AMA 4720

cirrus4string

My Feedback: (12)

I started flying ARF's just to get into flying, But I wanted something more. When I fly an ARF its cool, Taxi back to the pit and park next to a identical plane. But building a kit I get the joy of flying along with the rush of accomplishment, turning a box of wood into a flying machine. The pucker up of a kit maiden flight is as close as will get to the feeling of aviation's first pilots. Those guys built their airplanes in the barn and flew off their back yard. I will always have a ARF that has no emotional attachment to fly around, and if it crashes big deal I will buy another one. But I will always have a kit airplane ready to fly and one or two in build stages for the true flying expireance.

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Yanking your chain man.

Wow. That wasn't very friendly.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Actually I would add 2 more aspects. Designing and competing. Nothing better than showing up at a contest and winning with an airplane you designed and also scratch built from your own plans. Obviously not for everyone but very rewarding indeed.
I also build guitars. Writing music and performing it with these instruments feels almost the same to me.

foodstick

Ha ha, I love the gluing on the stabilizer and hinge bits ! too funny ....now soldering, that can scare even some kit builders ! ha ha ha

You know the worst part of arf's/kits to me is I hate motor and radio installation, with a passion . I can smile all the way through a kit or arf project, but that darn mechanical stuff just bores the sawdust out of me !!!!!

I just bought some new sandpaper, and when I found out I have to move it with my arm I TOOK IT BACK !!!!!! ha ha ha