robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

Flutter plain Sucks! Be careful of the pushrods in the kit. I sent mine in for warranty. they said it is possible that i had play in the linkage. I had No play at all! JR ds821 servos, dubro arms, and kit hardware. if anyone else is having same problem please post!.

oh and wire for this massive surface was 2-56

Best to junk the hardware on reputable companies' kits and arfs, as they do not support their product (at least Great Planes). Especially when they see it convenient to tell the moddeler that it was their lack of skills/knowledge in assembly/flying.

SunShyne

My Feedback: (68)

sorry about what happened. I am not blaming you but most usually check out the hardware that comes with these kits. 2/56 is simply too small for anything of decent size

good luck

matt

opjose

It looks like a lightly built plane, more suitable for 3D than for speed.

ChuckW

Mine has been great using the stock hardware. It is powered by a YS-63 which makes a lot of power but it isn't ridiculously overpowered or anything. I've never had a flutter issue. I also run a 13x4 prop which keeps speeds down. I have flown it with a 12x7 though and it was pretty fast.

What engine and prop are you running? What was the plane doing when the flutter occurred?

Regardless, I am surprised that GP didn't do anything for you. I've always found them to be pretty liberal in their warranty decisions even when the situation isn't black & white.

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

I agree with what you say. Hindsight is 20/20. But some fliers from my club think it is sort of chinsey that an arf that costs this much and is marketed "performance series" would have inadequate hardware.

I was also using a saito .80 with a 14x4 prop.

i flew and went vertical from straight and level, hammerhead, then pulled out coming back, advanced to half throttle at the bottom to get ready for next maneuver, then it fluttered. I remember the guys at the field were like " woa what caused that!"...then commented on the rods after i picked up the peices. if you look at the picture you can see one rod is snapped in half at the start of the clevice threads and the other is bent at an S shape.

oh and My primary airplane is an OMP Edge 540 Hybrid with a DA-50 up front. If I were one to not practice throttle control, I wouldnt expect that airframe to stick around too long, but it is intended for 3D, and i was hoping that was what id get outta my extra too but obviously not. Thats me holding my hybrid Such an awesome flyer!

However, i cant help but feel screwed over by the warranty company... is the warranty company owned by the manufacturer???how does that work anyway?

GP G-Rod

Hello,

I am sorry to read about your experience with the Extra 300sp.

I noticed your clevis is connected to the control horn rather far in. We have had one other customer report a similar issue (but did not lose his model). We sent him the PDF which I have posted here. It is hard to say what his results were after he looked over the information, but we have not heard back from him. I have included a pic of his wing and the linkages.

I have been flying the same model (very hard) with all stock hardware, and have not had any failures. Every model is stress tested with added ballast during development...and we do not have any record of a flutter issue. With that said....there are many variables in our hobby...and sometimes it is difficult to determine the root of issues like yours.

Please feel free to email me directly, and I will look into your situation with our service department on Monday.

Again...I am very sorry to hear about your model, and I hope sharing some of this information can be helpful to others.

Best regards,
George Rodriguez
Product Manager
Hobbico/Great Planes
[email protected]

GP G-Rod

Another note.....we will be including a printed version of this document with all future production of the Extra 300sp.
We will also post a link to this information on the Great Planes website for the Extra.

GR

wyo69cowboy

My Feedback: (2)

I think that's a nice response by gp grod; hope they help out. I have a GP Reactor, and it too uses 2-56 hardware. In the thread here on RCU, most replace that with 4-40 stuff, which I did also. Never had any flutter, but I did notice both an aileron and an elevator rod bent during 3D flying when using the original 2-56 stuff. I do agree that for a $200+ plane, the hardware could be a little better. I am eyeing another mid-size plane to probably go electric instead of glow, and there are several planes (3D Hobby Shop Su-26, Extreme Flight Extra, Precision Aero Extra MX)out there that include better hardware(4-40, ball links instead of clevises, carbon gear and/or wing tubes, etc) for only a few dollars more than the GP stuff. Don't get me wrong, I have always like the GP stuff, but I hope they take notice of some of this.

k8svrick

Mine is sitting in the sealed box it came in from from UPS. I agree, 2-56 hardware is entirely too small for a plane like this. Sealing the control surface gaps will also help with flutter issues. Having not yet even so much as opened the box, I don't know know if gap sealing is part of the instructions. In all the planes I've built in recent years, only one came with a hardware package I felt good using.

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

G-Rod,
Thanks for the post and the .pdf file. Good information and illustration in it. I know a couple guys that could really benefit having a copy of it so im going to print it off for them to see. Also thanks for looking into my incident.

As far as my pefrence in 3d throws on most models, i find that i need much more travel on tail surfaces than on ailerons. I know some people love it though. Like the airplane is on the end of a dremel tool buzzing around.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

...Darn Profile .40s. They sure are exciting to watch in a skilled pilots control!

Rc-Warehouse-USA

My Feedback: (28)

I witnessed this crash, it was awesome but if it happened to me I would be pissed... That was some bad 2-56 rod in that kit! The cheap 2-56 hardware from the kit bent under load and your plane went in hard! I don't know why these ARF's come with cheap 2-56 rod. There is a definite difference in rod! Same difference as the Good metal used in Tools compared with the cheap Tools you buy. It is Dangerous! Someone could have been hurt causing AMA to use insurance. They need good 4-40 rod in these Arfs with todays powerful engines. I am sure its all about money- cheapest possible hardware meens more profit. I had my Mojo that I built go in after the 3rd flight of the year, 4-40 hardware everything rock solid. But I lost all radio contro not hardware issue that was worse not knowing what happened with the Radio. I lost the whole plane -bent crank on my Saito .82, lost the lipo battery it was bent in half. I sent my radio in and receiver to Horizon and after I pleaded my case with 4 different customer service reps they fixed everything for free. Well we will see what kind service Great Planes has compared with Horizon! In my opinion they should replace the plane, if not I would go with Horizon or throw all their hardware away and get good quality hardware.

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

if i owned a business my policy would be "The customer is Always Right!"

you dont need a MBA to know that. depends on how big the business is though i guess.

djrc

I've owned and flown well over ten different GP planes, most of which I had no problems with other then the hardware that comes with the kits. Any plane listed as a performance plane should come with quality hardware regardless of size. 2-56 is not performance unless its on a 1/2A size plane. If a person is expected to pay that kind of money for a kit that includes hardware why should he have to turn around an spend another $30 plus to get quality hardware to ensure his plane will stay a flight. The plane is only as reliable as its weakest link, in this case it's the cheap hardware provided.

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

great planes offered me a new arf for 125 bucks. still i dont think that is good enough...do you guys think im crazy or would you expect more.

Rc-Warehouse-USA

My Feedback: (28)

what all was lost due to the crash how much money are you out including shipping?

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

7 bucks x2 for gearsets in aileron servos

7.4 volt - 1500mAh 20C Li-Poly Pack 40 bucks destroyed

26 bucks for shipping back airplane



so about 80 bucks gone in repairs

Dukasso

Too late for me the tech notice, i lost the plane tree weeks ago it was set for maximun movements of the ailerons, the problem is that i liked the plane a lot and is not easy for me to get another one...... for the record the flutter was so big that one aileron get off and the other the servo control horn was cut in the root it was a windy day (sorry for my english)

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

that stinks too...

Aerobatx

My Feedback: (1)

My $149.00 Phoenix Extra 330S came with 1/8th size Carbon fibre rod for the aileron pushrods. It's a bigger plane at 64 in. wingspan, and I have it overpowered with a 90 2 stroke...never had any flutter.

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

yea im not too impressed with this whole deal from great planes. ive seen alot of other models from other companies that are impressive for less. i just never really shopped around until this incident.

Their final offer to me was a new arf for 100 (half of towers price). i said i would take it, but i think ill just hold off and learn from this whole experience. I have to grant that they worked with me a little after i caused a fuss, but i guess im not satisfied enough to take their offer. I think i had to work too darn hard to get the deal I was offered, and i dont think that is the way it should be.
In time i may shop with them again but right now they might as well take my business and kiss it goodbye. [sm=bananahead.gif]

after losing that model i obtained a similar aircraft from a friend and i am flying that right now and having fun with it. i am also starting to build Swanny's primo 40.

So... Im gonna forget about this and learn from it. Check hardware out good before purchasing another arf, ya know. Now lets just get back to what model aviation is about...having fun.

thanks guys for your input.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Myself I have owned and flown many GP models. Even on my U Can Do .46 I used HS 5945 servos (180oz torque) and had CF pushrods with 4-40 hardware. Having owned several U Can do's and similar smaller models its a night and day difference using ball links and heavy duty push rods vs. 256 rods.

Looking even at the GP setup from their R&D I would never used a bent rod like that. I would use a clevis at the servo and the control surface end. If the control rod has even a slight amount of flex without the plane flying then you can imagine what happens when you stress it in the air.

Even on the smaller models I would seal the control surfaces for ailerons and elevator halves with at least packing tape.

Rc-Warehouse-USA

My Feedback: (28)

Great planes should say in their instructions to throw away the hardware in the kit and replace with larger stronger hardware? They don't care about product safety that is evident because if they did being that they have been building/flying models for years they would know what kind of force are on these control surfaces when doing 3D. I think they don't care and can sell more planes to the unknowing less experienced modeler.

robbinsp

My Feedback: (10)

i think it is clear to say that great planes doesnt care to satisfy me in this matter. if they were to replace the model it would speak loudly that their service is top-knotch. although some of us are convinced that their hardware is not.

mike early

So what happened?

Do these planes still come with inferior hardware?

flygilmore

You made a wise choice and got a Primo Trust me....you will soon forget that Extra the first time the Primo takes to the sky!!!! If you need any help on it, PM me....I will be glad to help!