Larger Revolver
05-28-2012, 11:22 AM
#5001
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
As mentioned earlier, a twist in the aileron is an easy fix. Clamp one end to the wing. Then twist the aileron at the other end oposite the misalignment. This will usually cause the covering to wrinkle, but either way, hit the covering with a heating iron. The shrunk covering will counter act the twist. Sometimes it takes a couple of attempts. I had this issue years ago on a Harmon Rocket and it was easily corrected after receiving this advise from the Hobby Shop.
Ironically, when I bought the Revolver 59 from Tower they sent me a replacement set of ailerons. Unfortunately they are not always as knowledgeable as the Hobby Shop staff. I guess this is a good reason to consider buying local.
Ironically, when I bought the Revolver 59 from Tower they sent me a replacement set of ailerons. Unfortunately they are not always as knowledgeable as the Hobby Shop staff. I guess this is a good reason to consider buying local.
05-28-2012, 05:51 PM
#5002
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: KOTA BHARU, MALAYSIA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
tq very very much for ideas from PILOTS..should i block it using wood wedges or clamps then gently warm it top and bottom with a heat gun..this is correct step?..if any PILOTS have video that is easy for me..this my 2nd year in this hobby....i need more information from all of u PILOTS..
05-28-2012, 07:29 PM
#5003
My Feedback: (47)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Whitestone,
NY
Posts: 1,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
Shahir - I believe I pushed one side of the aileron with my elbow as I pulled the other side of the aileron with my hand, while warming with a heat gun. If you clamp one side I'd first put some towel or rag or other wood between the clamp and the aileron \ wing, so as not to damage it. Then hold that reverse bend in place as the monokote cools, then slowly release. You'll see - it's easy. Just try it - that's how we all learn.
05-28-2012, 07:49 PM
#5004
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: KOTA BHARU, MALAYSIA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: microdon2
Shahir - I believe I pushed one side of the aileron with my elbow as I pulled the other side of the aileron with my hand, while warming with a heat gun. If you clamp one side I'd first put some towel or rag or other wood between the clamp and the aileron \ wing, so as not to damage it. Then hold that reverse bend in place as the monokote cools, then slowly release. You'll see - it's easy. Just try it - that's how we all learn.
Shahir - I believe I pushed one side of the aileron with my elbow as I pulled the other side of the aileron with my hand, while warming with a heat gun. If you clamp one side I'd first put some towel or rag or other wood between the clamp and the aileron \ wing, so as not to damage it. Then hold that reverse bend in place as the monokote cools, then slowly release. You'll see - it's easy. Just try it - that's how we all learn.
05-29-2012, 01:38 AM
#5005
My Feedback: (47)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Whitestone,
NY
Posts: 1,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
shahir - the best prop depends on your engine, the plane, and how you want to fly. I didn't see what engine you're running, but, in general, a four-stroke with a larger prop with a lower pitch will produce lower RPM's and allow more gentile landings. Here's a few engine \ prop charts you can use as a guide. These will give you the right range, then you should experiment with different props in that range to see what you like. (btw - these charts vary slightly in their recommendations). Also, be careful not to buy props for electric motors if you're running nitro \ gas.
http://www.rchangar.com/PropChart.htm
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/propeller-size.html
http://www.coastalplanes.com/tools/propchart.htm
http://www.rchangar.com/PropChart.htm
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/propeller-size.html
http://www.coastalplanes.com/tools/propchart.htm
05-29-2012, 03:58 AM
#5006
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: KOTA BHARU, MALAYSIA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: microdon2
shahir - the best prop depends on your engine, the plane, and how you want to fly. I didn't see what engine you're running, but, in general, a four-stroke with a larger prop with a lower pitch will produce lower RPM's and allow more gentile landings. Here's a few engine \ prop charts you can use as a guide. These will give you the right range, then you should experiment with different props in that range to see what you like. (btw - these charts vary slightly in their recommendations). Also, be careful not to buy props for electric motors if you're running nitro \ gas.
http://www.rchangar.com/PropChart.htm
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/propeller-size.html
http://www.coastalplanes.com/tools/propchart.htm
shahir - the best prop depends on your engine, the plane, and how you want to fly. I didn't see what engine you're running, but, in general, a four-stroke with a larger prop with a lower pitch will produce lower RPM's and allow more gentile landings. Here's a few engine \ prop charts you can use as a guide. These will give you the right range, then you should experiment with different props in that range to see what you like. (btw - these charts vary slightly in their recommendations). Also, be careful not to buy props for electric motors if you're running nitro \ gas.
http://www.rchangar.com/PropChart.htm
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/propeller-size.html
http://www.coastalplanes.com/tools/propchart.htm
05-29-2012, 04:09 AM
#5007
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
Consensus on the DLE20 is 17x6. 16x8 and 15x10 will work also, but keep the plane moving faster at landing. I suppose you could flind an 18x4 or 18x5 but might have trouble with ground clearance.
I prefer wood props on this size engine, and have had great luck with Xoar. Vess also makes a great prop (17B).
Avoid Zingers.
In plastic, APCs are heavy but are the standard to beat. I have flown APCs on many airframes with good success. They are tolerant of minor ground strikes, which is not true of wood props. Many think that master airscrews are too flexible to hold shape (and prop efficiency) well, but ultimately it is your choice.
BTW Shahir, I have actually BEEN to kota bharu in the late 90s. Was a great trip.
I prefer wood props on this size engine, and have had great luck with Xoar. Vess also makes a great prop (17B).
Avoid Zingers.
In plastic, APCs are heavy but are the standard to beat. I have flown APCs on many airframes with good success. They are tolerant of minor ground strikes, which is not true of wood props. Many think that master airscrews are too flexible to hold shape (and prop efficiency) well, but ultimately it is your choice.
BTW Shahir, I have actually BEEN to kota bharu in the late 90s. Was a great trip.
05-29-2012, 04:13 AM
#5008
My Feedback: (47)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Whitestone,
NY
Posts: 1,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
shahir - wjc's summation is dead on. In your case, as it sounds like you're a newer pilot, I'd suggest going with an APC for now, because of their toughness, and since the wood props are so easily damaged by even minor ground strikes. For my Rev 70 \ DLE 20 I still use an APC 16x8 - very good speed and vertical.
05-29-2012, 05:56 AM
#5009
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bakersfield,
CA
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
I strongly recommend a 17x6. It has has the best pull out of any and its still plenty fast with this plane. Id get used to flying it and then move to something faster if you want to later. A lot of guys seem to like the 15x8 for speed.
Jeremy
Jeremy
05-29-2012, 06:11 AM
#5010
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
|
05-29-2012, 08:14 AM
#5011
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: KOTA BHARU, MALAYSIA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
tq very much microdon for information regarding prop...Mach2 & microdon2....i just buy prop from my friend 16x8 carbon fiber.....16x6 Apc....2 morrow i will find out 17x6..after my rev70 is ready i i will try out that props....if that revo fly not so fast its ok..for me..but i hope landing will be good@soft landing.......wowwwwwwjcalhoun u already visit Kota Bharu....come on do another trip to kota bharu...now u will see a lot of changes,,,,,hehehehhe..here is our flying site.....
05-29-2012, 10:34 AM
#5012
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bakersfield,
CA
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
the best prop for getting this planes slowed down is the 17x6 with its larger diameter and less pitch.
I would definitely run that one first until you get the feel for the plane. Then try the 16x8 later. The 16x6 is just slightly faster than the 17x6 due to increase prop rpm. Its also a good prop to start with.
Just to give you an idea of the speed of the 17x6, Here is the video where I crashed my first one while running the Xoar 17x6
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIpsnmzBIEk[/youtube]
And here is a poor quality video with the smoke system running the Xoar 17x6.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNayz3JSac[/youtube]
I would definitely run that one first until you get the feel for the plane. Then try the 16x8 later. The 16x6 is just slightly faster than the 17x6 due to increase prop rpm. Its also a good prop to start with.
Just to give you an idea of the speed of the 17x6, Here is the video where I crashed my first one while running the Xoar 17x6
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIpsnmzBIEk[/youtube]
And here is a poor quality video with the smoke system running the Xoar 17x6.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNayz3JSac[/youtube]
05-29-2012, 05:14 PM
#5016
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bakersfield,
CA
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: lopflyers
Sorry about your crash. Do you actually burry the pieces?
Sorry about your crash. Do you actually burry the pieces?
Now Ive got to get around to building number 3. Im flyin my other planes right now since I dont have build time. Im in the process of moving. Moving sucks!
Jeremy
05-29-2012, 06:05 PM
#5017
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: KOTA BHARU, MALAYSIA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: mach2
the best prop for getting this planes slowed down is the 17x6 with its larger diameter and less pitch.
I would definitely run that one first until you get the feel for the plane. Then try the 16x8 later. The 16x6 is just slightly faster than the 17x6 due to increase prop rpm. Its also a good prop to start with.
Just to give you an idea of the speed of the 17x6, Here is the video where I crashed my first one while running the Xoar 17x6
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIpsnmzBIEk[/youtube]
And here is a poor quality video with the smoke system running the Xoar 17x6.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNayz3JSac[/youtube]
the best prop for getting this planes slowed down is the 17x6 with its larger diameter and less pitch.
I would definitely run that one first until you get the feel for the plane. Then try the 16x8 later. The 16x6 is just slightly faster than the 17x6 due to increase prop rpm. Its also a good prop to start with.
Just to give you an idea of the speed of the 17x6, Here is the video where I crashed my first one while running the Xoar 17x6
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIpsnmzBIEk[/youtube]
And here is a poor quality video with the smoke system running the Xoar 17x6.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNayz3JSac[/youtube]
05-30-2012, 04:52 PM
#5018
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
OK guys, I have a question for you.
Was out flying the R70/DLE20 today; perfect conditions!
Flat spins upright and inverted, KE, KE spin, snaps, Lomcevak, blender. Settled perfectly to 3 points.
As i was gassing up for second flight, i noted that my rudder was loose - actually, 4 of the 5 robarts hinges had pulled out; only the bottom one was still attached firmly.
My setup: CG aft of recommended by 1/2"; rudder throw - all i can get to touch the elevator on both sides on max rates.
My preflight: I pull on every moving surface, and look at every ball link, prior to flying for the day, so i know that she was OK before the first flight.
The robarts were installed with gorilla glue, imperceptible gap (~1/32"), which had been sealed with clear covering. Looks to me as though it was not the glue that failed, but rather the balsa around the pin hinge. I have to conclude that the rudder hinges pulled out during a maneuver. Were it tail wheel related, the bottom hinge would have failed first.
Has this happened to anyone else?
I am reinstalling with epoxy this time but it does unsettle me that a control surface could come loose due to aerodynamic forces, not flutter. I wonder if the balsa in the LE of the rudder is soft. Maybe i should tone it down with the R70 and only fly my Extras that way
Was out flying the R70/DLE20 today; perfect conditions!
Flat spins upright and inverted, KE, KE spin, snaps, Lomcevak, blender. Settled perfectly to 3 points.
As i was gassing up for second flight, i noted that my rudder was loose - actually, 4 of the 5 robarts hinges had pulled out; only the bottom one was still attached firmly.
My setup: CG aft of recommended by 1/2"; rudder throw - all i can get to touch the elevator on both sides on max rates.
My preflight: I pull on every moving surface, and look at every ball link, prior to flying for the day, so i know that she was OK before the first flight.
The robarts were installed with gorilla glue, imperceptible gap (~1/32"), which had been sealed with clear covering. Looks to me as though it was not the glue that failed, but rather the balsa around the pin hinge. I have to conclude that the rudder hinges pulled out during a maneuver. Were it tail wheel related, the bottom hinge would have failed first.
Has this happened to anyone else?
I am reinstalling with epoxy this time but it does unsettle me that a control surface could come loose due to aerodynamic forces, not flutter. I wonder if the balsa in the LE of the rudder is soft. Maybe i should tone it down with the R70 and only fly my Extras that way
05-30-2012, 06:10 PM
#5019
My Feedback: (47)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Whitestone,
NY
Posts: 1,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
wjc - sounds like you were doing some pretty impressive stuff. (what's a Knife Edge Spin, anyhow??). And if, as you say, the glue didn't give then maybe you were simply pushing the Revolver past it's design strength - it does sound that way. I haven't heard of anyone else doing all the maneuvers with the Rev 70 that you're doing. Still, it is amazing that you'd pull out your rudder with FIVE Robart Hinges installed! Funny - just tonight I installed the rudder of my next Rev 70 - I use 30 min epoxy with milled fiberglass power, for extra strength. When it's dryng I also hang it so that the still-flowing epoxy travels down the hinge to for form a bit of a "plug", holding it in. I read that somewhere and it made sense, so I do it. (not sure how much difference it makes). But I haven't had a Robart Hinge pull out yet. (maybe once I try a Knife Edge Spin...)
05-30-2012, 06:33 PM
#5020
Senior Member
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
WOW, five hinges in the rudder? So how many do you have on the ailerons? I agree maybe you are pushing the envelope a ill to hard!!
05-30-2012, 06:43 PM
#5021
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bakersfield,
CA
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
if the wood around it is damaged, then i would also think the glue may be a culprit. I think gorilla glue expands a lot when drying. It may have damaged the wood when it swelled and dried.
Or you're flying it too hard.
does this plane need much aileron to keep it on KE during the spin?
Jeremy
Or you're flying it too hard.
does this plane need much aileron to keep it on KE during the spin?
Jeremy
05-30-2012, 07:23 PM
#5022
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
Mike, Jeremy, and LOP
I'm kind of thinking it was just too much for her - I was pushing her too hard.
The wood seemed to be ok - the hinge point pulled out with glue and wood fibers on, as if it was the wood, rather than the glue, that failed. Mike the idea of an expoy plug is interesting. I might try that.
I have 7 hinges in each aileron, and 5 in each half-elevator. They all seem OK.
On the question of throws, at "max rates" i have about 2" elevator, both up and down, rudder to touch the elevators, and about 2" of aileron travel, both up and down. For a good flat spin, i use max rates, and full throttle to maintain the revolution rate. In an upright flat spin, she spins nose low about 15-20*, about 45-60 rpm, and loses 2 fuse lengths altitude (about) per revolution. My 25% extra260 flat spins faster 60-70rpm, only slightly nose low, and loses about 1 fuse length per revolution.
Bill
I'm kind of thinking it was just too much for her - I was pushing her too hard.
The wood seemed to be ok - the hinge point pulled out with glue and wood fibers on, as if it was the wood, rather than the glue, that failed. Mike the idea of an expoy plug is interesting. I might try that.
I have 7 hinges in each aileron, and 5 in each half-elevator. They all seem OK.
On the question of throws, at "max rates" i have about 2" elevator, both up and down, rudder to touch the elevators, and about 2" of aileron travel, both up and down. For a good flat spin, i use max rates, and full throttle to maintain the revolution rate. In an upright flat spin, she spins nose low about 15-20*, about 45-60 rpm, and loses 2 fuse lengths altitude (about) per revolution. My 25% extra260 flat spins faster 60-70rpm, only slightly nose low, and loses about 1 fuse length per revolution.
Bill
05-30-2012, 10:10 PM
#5023
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bakersfield,
CA
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
I never did the ailerons. i use 5 in the rudder and 4 in each elevator....
and i think ill keep using epoxy even though its a little more involved than gorilla glue. I dont like the way it bubbles up and expands.
Jeremy
and i think ill keep using epoxy even though its a little more involved than gorilla glue. I dont like the way it bubbles up and expands.
Jeremy
05-31-2012, 03:33 AM
#5024
RE: Larger Revolver
ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun
OK guys, I have a question for you.
Was out flying the R70/DLE20 today; perfect conditions!
Flat spins upright and inverted, KE, KE spin, snaps, Lomcevak, blender. Settled perfectly to 3 points.
As i was gassing up for second flight, i noted that my rudder was loose - actually, 4 of the 5 robarts hinges had pulled out; only the bottom one was still attached firmly.
My setup: CG aft of recommended by 1/2''; rudder throw - all i can get to touch the elevator on both sides on max rates.
My preflight: I pull on every moving surface, and look at every ball link, prior to flying for the day, so i know that she was OK before the first flight.
The robarts were installed with gorilla glue, imperceptible gap (~1/32''), which had been sealed with clear covering. Looks to me as though it was not the glue that failed, but rather the balsa around the pin hinge. I have to conclude that the rudder hinges pulled out during a maneuver. Were it tail wheel related, the bottom hinge would have failed first.
Has this happened to anyone else?
I am reinstalling with epoxy this time but it does unsettle me that a control surface could come loose due to aerodynamic forces, not flutter. I wonder if the balsa in the LE of the rudder is soft. Maybe i should tone it down with the R70 and only fly my Extras that way
OK guys, I have a question for you.
Was out flying the R70/DLE20 today; perfect conditions!
Flat spins upright and inverted, KE, KE spin, snaps, Lomcevak, blender. Settled perfectly to 3 points.
As i was gassing up for second flight, i noted that my rudder was loose - actually, 4 of the 5 robarts hinges had pulled out; only the bottom one was still attached firmly.
My setup: CG aft of recommended by 1/2''; rudder throw - all i can get to touch the elevator on both sides on max rates.
My preflight: I pull on every moving surface, and look at every ball link, prior to flying for the day, so i know that she was OK before the first flight.
The robarts were installed with gorilla glue, imperceptible gap (~1/32''), which had been sealed with clear covering. Looks to me as though it was not the glue that failed, but rather the balsa around the pin hinge. I have to conclude that the rudder hinges pulled out during a maneuver. Were it tail wheel related, the bottom hinge would have failed first.
Has this happened to anyone else?
I am reinstalling with epoxy this time but it does unsettle me that a control surface could come loose due to aerodynamic forces, not flutter. I wonder if the balsa in the LE of the rudder is soft. Maybe i should tone it down with the R70 and only fly my Extras that way
Some good ideas here about it though.
05-31-2012, 03:47 AM
#5025
My Feedback: (47)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Whitestone,
NY
Posts: 1,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Larger Revolver
wjc - another idea - I use CA to harden wood spots that receive screws (like for the servo mount points). Perhaps, before you re-mount the rudder, you can get CA into those existing Robart pin holes in the rudder, to harden the surrounding wood. I would try that.
A question - on your flat spin, are you trying for maximum spin RPM? Sounds fast. Can you slow that down, too, or does it work better at high RPM (I'm just starting to try flat spins recently).
Last - I'd love to see some video of you flying!
A question - on your flat spin, are you trying for maximum spin RPM? Sounds fast. Can you slow that down, too, or does it work better at high RPM (I'm just starting to try flat spins recently).
Last - I'd love to see some video of you flying!