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Larger Revolver

Old 05-31-2012, 06:44 AM
  #5026
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

I would hesitate to prep the hinge hole with ca. 30 minute epoxy is used not only to give enough time to install the hinges, but it also saturates the wood surface with epoxy, increasing the bond, unlike 5 minute which dries to quickly, resulting in less bond. Extreme Flight, in their manuals also recommends placing the plane in an upright position to cause puddling of the epoxy at the inside end of the hole.

It would be great to see a video of this plane doing a knife edge spin. Wouldn't have thought it possible. But then I have seen really good pilots do 3d with a high wing trainer.

In an axial role the plane spins on its axis or around the center of the fuse. In a knife edge spin, the plane spins on the axis extending from wing tip to wing tip. A video of a real plane was attached to a post a few pages back. At one point, it was doing a knife edge spin.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:21 PM
  #5027
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I recently learned to do the KE spin. It doesn't last long since you are dropping pretty quick. I'm kinda surprised that the R70 can do it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:15 AM
  #5028
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

S&S
Agree on the epoxy; I have given gorilla glue a try based on recommendations, and it expanding properties, and the concept that it bonds to robarts hinges, but I think I am now just going to use epoxy into the wood.

To your point, my KE spins are rotating around the pitch axis (line wingtip to wingtip), and the pitch axis is roughly vertical. In point of fact, i cannot get my R70 to KE spin with the fuse horizontal; she spins with the nose down about 30*, so that the pitch axis is not truly vertical during the spin, but rather describes a cone. Probably if i were a better pilot i could shrink the size of the cone, or maybe even get the plane horizontal with the pitch axis vertical. In the flat spin, rotation is around the yaw axis, and again, my R70 spins nose low. I do not think it is fundamentally CG, because my inverted 45* upline curls only slightly to the horizon, but it is either CG, or not enough throw on the elevators.

Maybe someone with better aerodynamic engineering background than I have might comment on how the semi-symmetrical wing influences flat spins and KE spins.

Don - like you, KE spin is a recent addition for me, and you are right, the plane falls quickly so altitude is our friend.
'
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:49 AM
  #5029
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Its just a game of give and take. If we want flat, flat spins, and good knife edge spins etc, were going to have to push the cg back. My little extra does it with a lot of throw and an aft cg. But it gives up the rock solid, "flys on rails" performance of a perfectly balanced Rev. Ill keep my Rev balanced for sport flying and use other planes for harder aerobatics.

Im sure the rev would do pretty hardcore stuff if someone moved the cg back. And id like to see it....

I vote for wjcalhoun to do it since he is already pushing the limits and ripping his rudder off. Go for it Bill! Oh, and take video. I want video of you flying it either way......

Jeremy
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:54 AM
  #5030
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

i second that vote
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:49 AM
  #5031
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Bill, I am not surprised that your knife edge spin is not completely vertical. Most I have seen aren't. Personally, I have yet to do it at all, except by accident while entering a flat spin with my EF 50cc Yak. Incidentally, the Yak flat spins better when inverted. And while the wing is centered in the fuse, the CG is different upright from inverted, when held by the wing tips. I am currently building a EF 50cc Extra and using epoxy on the hinges. I would put this at the bottom of my RC fun list; just above picking up pieces from a crash - well almost.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:53 AM
  #5032
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

S&S - agreed - hinging the control surfaces is my least favorite part of the build. Partially because it's so easy to be off-center. But once you're done - and it's in-line - you'll never (or SHOULD never) have to worry about it again. (unless maybe if you push the plane like WJC!...)
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:09 AM
  #5033
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Most other brands have the hinges done at the factory. But your right, it is worth the effort when done right and Extreme Flight planes fly and look so good, I would be hard pressed to buy another 50cc plane.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:23 AM
  #5034
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

What is the best 4-stroke to put into this plane?
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:46 AM
  #5035
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Mike, I had a Magnum .91 four stroke with a 14x6 APC prop in my first Revolver and it flew it very well. Verticles were good but not unlimited and max speed was OK. In my second one which I am just finishing up I am putting an OS .95v four stroke using a 14x7 APC prop and expecting even better performance mainly in speed.

Bruce
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:59 AM
  #5036
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I'm rebuilding a Rev 70 now with an OS 120 4s, and use a 16x8 prop. Pretty sure it's unlimited vertical. Love this engine. Also used to have a YS 140 4s - that was just a TAD overkill! But loved the power and the sound. That said I'm pretty sure you get the same power and speed results from a DLE 20.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:05 PM
  #5037
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Slow and Steady

Bill, I am not surprised that your knife edge spin is not completely vertical. Most I have seen aren't. Personally, I have yet to do it at all, except by accident while entering a flat spin with my EF 50cc Yak. Incidentally, the Yak flat spins better when inverted. And while the wing is centered in the fuse, the CG is different upright from inverted, when held by the wing tips. I am currently building a EF 50cc Extra and using epoxy on the hinges. I would put this at the bottom of my RC fun list; just above picking up pieces from a crash - well almost.
I agree on the hinges. They sure are not a blast to do. You would think someone would make some sort of slick tool to work with hinges. I have a couple tools I bought and I modifed one of them, but it still is not a cake walk getting those holes right. There has to be a better way. I know someone that is a machinist - maybe I can get them to make me something that actually works

BTW, I have an EF 50cc Extra 300....very nice bird and so well built. I have been flying my 30cc Edge 540 and 30cc GW Extra lately and both are very nice flyers. The Edge is a floater on landings.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:21 PM
  #5038
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Luchnia - sounds like a nice fleet. Are you running DLE 55's and 30's in those planes? And are you flying 3D?
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:09 AM
  #5039
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: microdon2

Luchnia - sounds like a nice fleet. Are you running DLE 55's and 30's in those planes? And are you flying 3D?
DL and DLEs in everything gas except for one Brison 2.4. The 50cc is a DL50 and the GW Extra and Edge have the DLE30cc engines. The DLE engines are certainly easy to work with, decently priced, economical, and run very nice right out of the box. If they have a good lifespan they will certainly be a worthwhile engine.

I did have an older Extra 300XS with a Brison 2.4 but I totalled that one not long ago. I did not hurt the engine or the electrical so I am in good shape there. The Brison is a solid running workhorse of an engine with a history of longevity. I am not sure what I will do with the Brison since I don't have a plane to put a 40cc on and the thing is the engine is not even broke in real good yet. Hasn't had a gallon of fuel through it. Maybe over time I will pick up a second hand airframe that will work with that engine or trade it for something to accomadate my other planes.

With my gas planes I fly them more reserved than I do my glow. I think that is because of the difference in dollar value [X(] In my situation when your investment is higher there seems to be a bit more caution. I will put most of my smaller glow planes in much more risky situations than I do the gas.

I am not a big time 3D flyer yet. I can do some hovering, decent knife edges, snap rolls, inverts, etc. More along the lines of sport aerobatic stuff I suppose. I have not conquered the flat spins, harriers - some of the harder stuff. I can do some of those a little on the sim. Lately I have been working on getting those long single rolls to be smooth all the way accross the flight line. Those quick rolls are easy but a long distance smooth roll is much more difficult.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:50 AM
  #5040
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I'm afraid to do much more than simple loops and rolls on my Sbach 30cc. Plus, it's wing loading is probably nearly double that of my electric 60" Extra 300. The Sbach actually feels alot like my R70 in the air and on landings. It ought to do alot more than I can with the R70 because of the control surface size. I'm thinking about putting the CoPilot II LT in my R70 and use it like a trainer to get my dad into the hobby. It's a flight computer that will automatically level the plane if you let go of the sticks. I used to have one in my TREX 600 and it would literally hover it for me. Saw one online for $85.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:14 AM
  #5041
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Luchnia
I have been using the robarts hinge tool for getting the hinge holes right. It will reliably CENTER the hole between the TE surfaces, but as we all know, the center of that distance may not be exactly on the ridge of a double beveled trailing edge - an ARF construction issue. It also gets the hole parallel to the chord of the wing. What it does not do well, and about which one has be be careful, is getting the drill bit (and hole) square to the TE in the plane of the chord of the surface. Once that first hole is drilled, i counterbore with a larger bit to a depth of about 1/8" to relieve the knuckle of the hinge, so that the hinge pin lines up exactly with the TE. And, from now on, I'll use epoxy rather than gorilla. That based on a 'n of 1' experience.

I might think about installing some hinges in balsa stock with gorilla and epoxy and actually measuring the force it takes to pull them out. Address the question of epoxy vs gorilla glue with data. Has anyone done that experiment?
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:39 AM
  #5042
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wjc - looking forward to the results of that experiment. I flew my Rev 59 \ OS 61 this morning (along with my Kangke Monocoupe - 96", Zenoah G26). Talk about different handling characteristics! Still, both planes flew very well. The larger wheels I installed on the Monocoupe (from 3 3/4 to 4 1/2) seems to greatly help ground handling and takeoff speed. The Rev 59 flew great - love the way this plane flies and tracks. Others at the field commented, too, and seemed impressed.

Another club member flew a Rev 70, with an OS 100 4\s - the plane looked and sounded excellent. SUCH a good-looking plane in the air!

Am almost done with my rebuild of the Rev 70 \ OS 120. Should re-maiden it one morning this week. Unfortunately, the fuse for my other Rev 70 (DLE 20) rebuild isn't due in till end of July. Not that I don't have other planes to keep me busy till then...
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:15 AM
  #5043
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


Quote:
ORIGINAL: microdon2

I'm rebuilding a Rev 70 now with an OS 120 4s, and use a 16x8 prop. Pretty sure it's unlimited vertical. Love this engine. Also used to have a YS 140 4s - that was just a TAD overkill! But loved the power and the sound. That said I'm pretty sure you get the same power and speed results from a DLE 20.
Ya know, I think you're exactly right. The DLE 20 is light, easy on CHEAP fuel, and packs the punch of a ys 140.....

So why would anyone weigh their plane down for more money, and kinda the same power. But off-set by the added weight?

My DLE seems to be the most perfectly suited engine for this size application. I love it!!


Jeremy


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Old 06-04-2012, 04:07 AM
  #5044
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

I doubt the DLE has the power of a YS 140.
4 strokes sound 10x better than weedeaters.
Gasoline stinks.

But it is the wave of the future.
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:56 AM
  #5045
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mike early - maybe the DLE 20 doens't have quite the torque of a YS 140, but I've run both on the Rev 70 and I could not see a performance difference. I DO love the sound of that YS 140 - the engine is a BEAST - but there is about a 10-fold increase in fuel costs (given cost of Nitro vs gas and fuel usage rate) for it's performance and sound. And I was using 15%, not the 20% recommended. Plus gas is cleaner on the plane and if you're carefull you won't smell it much at all (that was a concern for me, too, before going gas).

That doesn't mean I won't eventually find another use for that YS 1.40...
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:40 AM
  #5046
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The smell has been an issue for me that I resolved by building a small trailer, which accomodates my 50cc Yak and gas can. The trailer is 4 feet wide and 10 feet long. Which means it can be stored in my garage without dominating the space. And no gas in my car. I figure the savings in the cost of glow fuel will pay for the trailer in about 7 years, give or take a few. Before the trailer, I would get headaches, even with the windows open. It seams like most people don't have this issue, judging by how many transport in their car.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:47 AM
  #5047
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S&S - are you sure you don't have a leak somewhere? The only time I smell gas is when I fuel \ test my engine in my apt kitchen (usually when the landlady downstairs isn't home, and I vent out the window - it's a cool setup!) and I spill a few drops. Gas DOES stink when it's exposed, but I really don't smell it otherwise. And I keep a gas can and 4 gas planes in my apt.

Speaking of engine testing, I finally tested my OS 120 4s this morning - first time since I nosed it in two months ago. The engine did NOT sound good (though it did start right up). I'm hoping it needs new bearings - will have to take it apart and inspect. It just stinks cause I (thought) I was very close to completing this plane.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:05 AM
  #5048
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

I have a friend who has his 35% Aeroworks Extra stored next to his bed. Another friend transports his 50 cc Extra in the cab of his pick up. It just doesn't work for me; no leaks, but I may have a sensitivity issue with the fumes. Then again some other flyers have expressed the same concerns. Just thought I would confirm Mike Early's comments as a possible issue.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:11 AM
  #5049
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mach2


Quote:
ORIGINAL: microdon2

I'm rebuilding a Rev 70 now with an OS 120 4s, and use a 16x8 prop. Pretty sure it's unlimited vertical. Love this engine. Also used to have a YS 140 4s - that was just a TAD overkill! But loved the power and the sound. That said I'm pretty sure you get the same power and speed results from a DLE 20.
Ya know, I think you're exactly right. The DLE 20 is light, easy on CHEAP fuel, and packs the punch of a ys 140.....

So why would anyone weigh their plane down for more money, and kinda the same power. But ofsett by the added weight?

My DLE seems to be the most perfectly suited engine for this size application. I love it!!


Jeremy


If you like the DLE20...you will love the Mintor 22cc engine. Smoothest single cyl engine I have run ! Check em out. Capt,n
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:14 PM
  #5050
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Concerning the smell of gas. When i transport mine I empty the tank and then put a stopper in the vent line. Also close the throttle. I know, i know.. All it takes is a hint of fuel and it can stink up the car. Others use coleman fuel mix with excellent results. It doesn't smell at all. The octane is less , but they say it doesn't effect performance. I have never run it myself but many have.

Dan
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