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Old 07-23-2012, 09:33 AM
  #5401  
Slow and Steady
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

You can leave the LIFE battery in, as long as their is an inline switch disconnecting it from anything drawing amps. Some switches like the Smartfly miracle switch draw a small load, usually inconsequential unless left hooked up for extended period (check specs). You would have the same issue with any other chemistry.

My understanding regarding the buzzing noise associated with some digital servos is that they have a narrow dead band and are continually adjusting to the center, when neutral. Although it could also be a binding issue in the linkage.
Old 07-23-2012, 10:05 AM
  #5402  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Luchnia
I do exactly what you suggest - use the Dean's connector for charging, with the balance lead.
The universal lead is routed through my switch.
Old 07-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #5403  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun

Think about Hitec 5625s - digital metal gear for about $50.
And the comment about burning them up is a joke - i agree with you that one does not want to risk a plane.
HAHA, okay, i didnt catch that.

These futaba digitals in my plane are older. They arent HV (obviously since my problem is that i cant run a bigger battery than 4.8) and they really arent that fast. When compared to a Hitc 985 analog, they are almost identical. Futaba @ 4.8 is .19 sec and 132 in lb......985mg @ 4.8 is .16 sec and 133 in lb. So the analog actually beats it.

The digital doesnt seem to use any more power than the analogs, but that is probably because they are not HV. The buzzing is a little weird, but it stops right when they start moving. And I do like how they dont growl when they are at their full throw like analogs. The 9151s are very smooth and quiet when in operation, where as the 3050s are noisier, like the analogs.

Anyway, here is my big question. Does anyone know what the voltages of a LiFe battery drops to when underload in an average system and also running an ignition? Im still debating on whether or not to use a regulator.

Old 07-23-2012, 12:06 PM
  #5404  
ahicks
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

I have the Hitec Aurora A9 transmitter that has the live downlink allowing you to monitor your onboard receiver voltage. That is simply the best feature since sliced bread. The setup I've been talking about (everything running off of a single 2300 A123) says it's running on 6.6 pretty much constantly. You can see it bouncing around a little bit when you turn the ign. on or off with the opti, or push the sticks into the corners of the radio, but it settles right back at 6.6 very quickly.

Learning and using this voltage monitoring feature is how I figured out how running a single NiMh is such a bad deal when running with the bigger servos. You really don't want to be doing that.... -Al
Old 07-23-2012, 03:19 PM
  #5405  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: ahicks

I have the Hitec Aurora A9 transmitter that has the live downlink allowing you to monitor your onboard receiver voltage. That is simply the best feature since sliced bread. The setup I've been talking about (everything running off of a single 2300 A123) says it's running on 6.6 pretty much constantly. You can see it bouncing around a little bit when you turn the ign. on or off with the opti, or push the sticks into the corners of the radio, but it settles right back at 6.6 very quickly.

Learning and using this voltage monitoring feature is how I figured out how running a single NiMh is such a bad deal when running with the bigger servos. You really don't want to be doing that.... -Al
What size plane did you do the test on?
Old 07-23-2012, 03:24 PM
  #5406  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

The A123 battery thing is making more sense to me now. I guess its time to belly up some cash and start changing these things over [X(]

I got to make my mind up on a charger now.
Old 07-23-2012, 03:39 PM
  #5407  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php

I use this one and it does everything. Im really happy for it and its affordable.

common sence rc has awesome customer service. I didnt have a receipt when my charger stopped working on AC power. I sent it in and they are sending me a new one now. Very nice!

Jeremy
Old 07-23-2012, 03:42 PM
  #5408  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: ahicks

I have the Hitec Aurora A9 transmitter that has the live downlink allowing you to monitor your onboard receiver voltage. That is simply the best feature since sliced bread. The setup I've been talking about (everything running off of a single 2300 A123) says it's running on 6.6 pretty much constantly. You can see it bouncing around a little bit when you turn the ign. on or off with the opti, or push the sticks into the corners of the radio, but it settles right back at 6.6 very quickly.

Learning and using this voltage monitoring feature is how I figured out how running a single NiMh is such a bad deal when running with the bigger servos. You really don't want to be doing that.... -Al
What does the voltage drop down to when the sticks are in the corner and the igntion system is on?

Thanks,
Jeremy

Old 07-23-2012, 04:03 PM
  #5409  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

You should have seen what happened to me yesterday. I was flying my 30cc Edge 540 and I was getting pretty lose with it. Some knife edges all around the whole circuit, loops, some rolls, etc. So I had backed off some and started my circuit directly accross the field from me.

All of a sudden, the engine dies, plane banks hard right and I have absolutely no control at all. I was thinking sheeesh-not ready to lose another plane this year! (I lost a 40cc a few months back because of stupid brain reversed ailerons). I just keep working the sticks and the plane returns control to me. I bank her back then bring her in for approach and right down on the runway smooth as silk. It was getting toward the end of the flying day and I was so glad I got that plane in.

Here is what is so wild. Once I got the plane back to the pits I turned the radio and switch on and started working the sticks. It was wild. All the surfaces would move in small jerking increments and the guys were looking in amazement. One of the guys said, "You better shine that plane up good, 'cause you were saved on that one!"

I grabbed my volt meter and tested the voltage and it was jumping from around 5.5 down to 4 back up to 5.8 and back. Never saw one do anything quite that strange. Once I got home I grabbed a battery, stuck it in the plane and everything was fine - nothing but the battery. I will admit that battery was about four of five years old and had gobs of heavy use.

I know, I know, replace the batteries before they get too old Close call I would state
Old 07-23-2012, 04:06 PM
  #5410  
ahicks
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

2 planes. 20cc Seagull Decathlon and 80" 30cc Katanna (of Chinese decent, no longer built). Can't see how low the voltage is dropping as it's not there long enough. You can just see the LED voltage display stumble/scoll withough really settling on a number - until it settles back at 6.6v.

Here's the charger I went with. Bought it because it's not too expensive, and it allowed me to get my feet wet, possibly teaching me enough about it to make a more inteligent decision later. So far, it's done everything I needed - without needing a computer engineering degree.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i00
Old 07-23-2012, 04:10 PM
  #5411  
ahicks
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: Luchnia

You should have seen what happened to me yesterday. I was flying my 30cc Edge 540 and I was getting pretty lose with it. Some knife edges all around the whole circuit, loops, some rolls, etc. So I had backed off some and started my circuit directly accross the field from me.

All of a sudden, the engine dies, plane banks hard right and I have absolutely no control at all. I was thinking sheeesh-not ready to lose another plane this year! (I lost a 40cc a few months back because of stupid brain reversed ailerons). I just keep working the sticks and the plane returns control to me. I bank her back then bring her in for approach and right down on the runway smooth as silk. It was getting toward the end of the flying day and I was so glad I got that plane in.

Here is what is so wild. Once I got the plane back to the pits I turned the radio and switch on and started working the sticks. It was wild. All the surfaces would move in small jerking increments and the guys were looking in amazement. One of the guys said, ''You better shine that plane up good, 'cause you were saved on that one!''

I grabbed my volt meter and tested the voltage and it was jumping from around 5.5 down to 4 back up to 5.8 and back. Never saw one do anything quite that strange. Once I got home I grabbed a battery, stuck it in the plane and everything was fine - nothing but the battery. I will admit that battery was about four of five years old and had gobs of heavy use.

I know, I know, replace the batteries before they get too old Close call I would state
Welcome to those of us with planes that have survived receiver brown out. I've learned to just relax the controls no matter what the plane is doing. That gets all the servos off line - giving the receiver a full shot of whatevr voltage is left. Normally allowing you to land the plane with minimal control inputs...
Old 07-23-2012, 05:17 PM
  #5412  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Good advice, too late for me. I lost two planes for brownouts w Ar500. They are worthless
Old 07-23-2012, 05:28 PM
  #5413  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

hi
i never used that servo with the 4.8 volt battery.
Old 07-23-2012, 05:32 PM
  #5414  
orthobird
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

i do not want to contradict you,
but i have been flying a H9 Extra 260 27%
with JR servos and Jr receiver
and 4.8 volt pack with 2500 MaH
there are 6 servos
5 are metal geared high torque


have never had a brown out
never a hiccup of a loss of control

just recently
i converted the rudder servo to the jr 8711
since i believe the 8411 is not strong enough for rudder and to let me knife edge
so i also have converted to a 6 volt battery
however, have not flown this bird yet with this setup.
Old 07-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #5415  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

were you referring to Orthobird's description of the 70 revolver maiden and crash.
just want to clarify,
if you were

then i did use 4.8 nimh and no, the 8711 servo was not involved.

my second revolver, which is right behind me right now,
has a 6 volt Nimh batt and a rudder servo that is jr 8711

the 1st revolver i had was using a jr 8231 servo on rudder with plastic gears

there was no brown out

the rudder servo gear broke,
loss of rudder
flutter
plane went down!!

Old 07-23-2012, 05:49 PM
  #5416  
ahicks
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: orthobird

i do not want to contradict you,
but i have been flying a H9 Extra 260 27%
with JR servos and Jr receiver
and 4.8 volt pack with 2500 MaH
there are 6 servos
5 are metal geared high torque


have never had a brown out
never a hiccup of a loss of control

just recently
i converted the rudder servo to the jr 8711
since i believe the 8411 is not strong enough for rudder and to let me knife edge
so i also have converted to a 6 volt battery
however, have not flown this bird yet with this setup.
No right or wrong here as far as I'm concerned. You're welcome, even invited to contradict! Just sharing our experiences? Let's not let this get personal, it's more about learning that way!

You don't say what battery chemistry the 2500 Mah you're using is? If it's a NiMh, I think that's great you're not having an issue, but as you can see a LOT of others ARE having trouble with them? You're thinking it's because you're running JR equipment?

Also, while messing with the NiMh batteries prior to abandoning them, I found adding a 5th cell to take it up to 6v. did nothing to help prevent the brown out deal. I tried that! The only way I could make a NiMh work with my rig was using 2 of them. Then they work fine...
Old 07-23-2012, 07:15 PM
  #5417  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

ahicks, that looks like a good deal on the charger, if it works well and doesnt have any problems. It doesn't come with a balance cable? I like mine because it give a little distance from the charger so its not right up on the charger. No biggie though. Can you also run that charger off of your 12v car battery to charge at the field? I dont need to do that, but its a pretty cool feature on the ACDC-6.

The $69 Common Sense RC ACDC-6 does everything and its not a bad price. I dont think Ill ever need to upgrade since I dont fly electrics. I think those guys have a system where you can line up a bank of LiPos and charge them all at once.

But the best part of it is the customer service. I know that if anything goes wrong with it, its taken care of. No matter what. I dont know of any company that will replace a charger for someone who can even prove when, or where they bought the charger..... But that's just my 2 cents.

Jeremy
Old 07-23-2012, 07:36 PM
  #5418  
orthobird
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

same here

i do not get upset at all
and i am very good at accepting criticism

this is the only way one can learn and improve oneself


after graduating from high school,
i did an additional 15 years of schooling

sounds crazy

but this is bottom line....
the moment you think you know it all
you are done in.

one must always keep their mind open and be willing to learn new things

also

i have learned
over past 25 years

as an adult person

that becoming angry or upset
gets you nowhere

especially if you are truely angry

because once you allow your self to become "upset", this state of emotion will affect your ability to think and act in a reasonable fashion.

now, if you are ever in a position of authority, where you have to oversee others, or work with others,
sometimes, pretending to be upset may be a slightly good thing, in moderation, as they say..



that is it for now on my words of wisdom

back to fun stuff


guess what i just did

i just bought a life a123 pack with 6 volt regulator for the extra
due to fear that you all have brought into me

as for the revolver 70

it has all servos with metal gears,
they are all over 100 ounce/inch
the rudder servo is the Jr 8711 (400 ounce/inch)

may be overkill, but remember, i lost my first revolver on maiden from the rudder servo

so, do you think using a jr nimh 6 volt 2700 maH
battery is sufficient?

thanks again
Old 07-23-2012, 08:54 PM
  #5419  
mach2
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: orthobird

i do not want to contradict you,
but i have been flying a H9 Extra 260 27%
with JR servos and Jr receiver
and 4.8 volt pack with 2500 MaH
there are 6 servos
5 are metal geared high torque


have never had a brown out
never a hiccup of a loss of control

just recently
i converted the rudder servo to the jr 8711
since i believe the 8411 is not strong enough for rudder and to let me knife edge
so i also have converted to a 6 volt battery
however, have not flown this bird yet with this setup.
were you running the ignition off of the same battery, or did you have a seperate ignition battery?
Also, do you fly your plane hard, or just relaxed sport flying?

Thanks,
Jeremy

Old 07-24-2012, 02:51 AM
  #5420  
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Default RE: Larger Revolver




after graduating from high school,
i did an additional 15 years

[/quote]


Aha, orthopad, I'm Ob myself. I also have both revolvers. Crazy ah?

Old 07-24-2012, 03:28 AM
  #5421  
ahicks
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

mach2 - there's a jack on the side of the charger for balance charging. It done internaly and the harness you need to use is dependant on the number of cells in the battery pack you're balancing? On our 2 cell packs, that means 3 wires (a 3 cell would need 4, a 5 cell, 6 wires?). Positive, negative, and one for balance. Just remember the charger needs the ability to read each individual cell in the pack it's balancing. I was able to plug a long Futaba extension directly into that port - which allows me to plug the other end directly in to the switch harness charge port on the plane - because it's wired to the battery using the black and red wires for positive and negative, with the white wire in use as the balance lead. No muss, no fuss, nice clean installation!

orthobird- everything I've been able to figure out on my own, added to what I've read trying to bring myself up to speed on the topic, says that the AA sized NiMh, no matter the Mah rating, are causing problems for a lot of guys when run as a single battery pack. Then, there are a few guys, like yourself, that completely contradict that trend by not appearing to have any trouble at all! So I don't know what to tell you regarding your question? Regarding the voltage regulator, most guys are using those only if they are running LiPo batteries. I doubt it would hurt anything running it with an A123/Life, but if I could get away without it, I would. Just a potential extra spot for problems - assuming your rig is good to go on 6v.
-Al
Old 07-24-2012, 03:29 AM
  #5422  
Luchnia
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

Not sure exactly what you call it, however I spent some time checking it last night and I think these are momentary complete losses of power from the 5 year old battery. It is sort of fun to watch it though as the surfaces may move in opposite directions, or jump an inch at the time. The ignition will come on and off. Makes you think the receiver is bad. Once you disconnect the battery and connect a good one all is well. One thing I noticed if you only move one surface slowly sometimes it works.

This would make sense as to why I was able to land the plane without issue. I was light on the controls by banking slight left then left again then leveling out and allowing the plane to decend normally with just a tad of down elevator to increase speed to get her back to the runway. So I was using very little voltage during this time. We noticed the plane jumped about two feet or so when it was about eight feet off the runway which I now know was because the elevators jumped which made sense with the voltage issue.

Funny this all happened at one time during flight. I flew the plane four times the last time I flew it which was about a month ago. I am anticipating pulling the battery pack down now so I can see what is breaking down. I imagine a cell failing. I will let you guys know what I find out. The battery is a JR NIMH 2300 and has been a real workhorse. I have had it in three different planes!
Old 07-24-2012, 03:30 AM
  #5423  
orthobird
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: mach2


ORIGINAL: orthobird

i do not want to contradict you,
but i have been flying a H9 Extra 260 27%
with JR servos and Jr receiver
and 4.8 volt pack with 2500 MaH
there are 6 servos
5 are metal geared high torque


have never had a brown out
never a hiccup of a loss of control

just recently
i converted the rudder servo to the jr 8711
since i believe the 8411 is not strong enough for rudder and to let me knife edge
so i also have converted to a 6 volt battery
however, have not flown this bird yet with this setup.
were you running the ignition off of the same battery, or did you have a seperate ignition battery?
Also, do you fly your plane hard, or just relaxed sport flying?

Thanks,
Jeremy




i have a saito 125 4 stroke engine with nitro
no 20 cc gasser yet.

on the maiden flight, i was taking it very easy, after 7 minutes or so, i started to use rudder to turn plane,
then i lost control from rudder.

ouch

Old 07-24-2012, 03:33 AM
  #5424  
orthobird
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Default RE: Larger Revolver


ORIGINAL: lopflyers




after graduating from high school,
i did an additional 15 years

Aha, orthopad, I'm Ob myself. I also have both revolvers. Crazy ah?


[/quote]


you guessed it, but i am ortho surgeon, hence code name
"orthobird"
do mostly hip and knee replacements
>400 per yers

i do have 2 revolvers
but one is almost finished
the other one is completely finished
and when i see completely finished,
i mean
gone, nada, dust

LOL

Old 07-24-2012, 03:44 AM
  #5425  
Luchnia
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Default RE: Larger Revolver

The battery argument is almost like the oil argument. There certainly are pluses and minuses. In every plane I currently own I have nothing more than NIMH 2000 5C 6V batteries. One 2300 that just went bad. Are they adequate? Yes, they have been now for quite some time with hundreds of flights and some of the servos I use are well over 150 oz servos so I know they are capable batteries.

With that implied I do think it wise to move up to the better batteries for my larger, more expensive planes. More control surfaces, larger servos, etc., and I want to reduce my risk factor as I think the investment is a sensible one.

So much has to do with the quality of the battery (amp drain), the size of the plane, the servos draw, and the style of flying. If you are doing light cruising around the field just how much problem would it be? I know a guy that was flying 4.8V battery for the last several years on a Funtana X 100 with digital servos. Usually he would fly a couple flights a week and light flying. Never an issue at all. He just recently upgraded his battery to 6 volt

I have a Funtana X 100 with digital servos and no way would I fly it on 4.8 battery. I have a NIMH 2000 in it now and can fly four flights without issue doing some robust flying and still has several more flights in it. I just don't like to push the envelope. I think our experiences are valuable to share with each other as it can save money and we can learn from others.


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