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  1. #5751

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Luchnia - good point about gassers leaning on the torque side. But a significant part of that is propping, don't you think? I have a 73" Sukhoi \ DLE 30 with an APC 18x10, and that plane is pretty darn quick, and still excellent vertical. I'm not up to 3D yet, so doing sport flying with it. When I want to try 3D I'll change the prop to a 20x8 or 6, and I expect straight speeds to decrease . So I'm hoping that the DLE 55 (or equivalent) and the right prop will be able to provide good \ very good speed with the new Rev.

  2. #5752

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Mike
    Thanks for the details. At 19.5# (and book weights are always optimistically low - she will probably build more like the 20.5) performance will not be 'spirited' with the DLE55. My AW Ext300 weighs in at 17#15oz and is fine, but a plane 2-2.5# heavier; don't know. I have another Extra260 that is 1.5# ligher than the AW bird, and she is noticably more nimble, so another 2# in the other direction with the R90 will likely be an issue. The wing area, control surface area, cubic wing loading, etc will be interesting numbers to get.

    I was only half joking about the DA-60. Mintor 60 or 75 might be other good options.

  3. #5753

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    A little less than enthusiastic about those specs as well. Too big, not quite my cup of tea? But that's me....-Al

  4. #5754

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    RE: Larger Revolver


    ORIGINAL: ahicks

    A little less than enthusiastic about those specs as well. Too big, not quite my cup of tea? But that's me....-Al
    I think we are all anticipating the specs, that much is for sure. Some of the concepts we have shared in the forum would be good changes hopefully get applied to the 55cc Rev. (I hope they were reading our posts). I am excited about it, nonetheless and I am one of those guys with a small fleet, yet this will be on my upgrade path once I see some more details [8D]

  5. #5755

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    wjcalhoun - you're probably right, considering how Great Planes tends to under-spec their engine recommendations. Considering that most of use 1.5x to 2.0x the recommended cubic inches, we're looking at - low end - a 75cc gasser to live the Revolver life to which we've become accustomed. That's equivalent to running a 912s in a "61" Rev 70. And an OS 120 \ DLE 20 - would that be equivalent to a 100cc gasser?? Yikes. On the other hand, I see DLE 55's moving 87" 3D planes pretty nicely, so...

    I just hope SOMEBODY on this thread has the money to experiment!!

    Very fortunately, I just so happen to have a Precision Eagle 4.2 (70cc) that is currently set up for Nitro. But I can easily convert it back to gas. A bit heavy, perhaps, but it's free (ish).

  6. #5756

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    ORIGINAL: microdon2

    wjcalhoun - you're probably right, considering how Great Planes tends to under-spec their engine recommendations. Considering that most of use 1.5x to 2.0x the recommended cubic inches, we're looking at - low end - a 75cc gasser to live the Revolver life to which we've become accustomed. That's equivalent to running a 912s in a ''61'' Rev 70. And an OS 120 \ DLE 20 - would that be equivalent to a 100cc gasser?? Yikes. On the other hand, I see DLE 55's moving 87'' 3D planes pretty nicely, so...

    I just hope SOMEBODY on this thread has the money to experiment!!

    Very fortunately, I just so happen to have a Precision Eagle 4.2 (70cc) that is currently set up for Nitro. But I can easily convert it back to gas. A bit heavy, perhaps, but it's free (ish).
    How about this DA-85CC [X(] This should truck her along pretty good!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #5757

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun

    Mike
    Thanks for the details. At 19.5# (and book weights are always optimistically low - she will probably build more like the 20.5) performance will not be 'spirited' with the DLE55. My AW Ext300 weighs in at 17#15oz and is fine, but a plane 2-2.5# heavier; don't know. I have another Extra260 that is 1.5# ligher than the AW bird, and she is noticably more nimble, so another 2# in the other direction with the R90 will likely be an issue. The wing area, control surface area, cubic wing loading, etc will be interesting numbers to get.

    I was only half joking about the DA-60. Mintor 60 or 75 might be other good options.
    The DLE-20 puts out 14lbs of thrust. The R70 weights 9.5lbs depending on build. The gives a power to weight ratio of roughly 1.47:1
    The DLE-55 will put out 30lbs of thrust with the right prop. Even if the R90 hits 20.5lbs that is that is a power to weight ratio of roughly 1.46:1

    How will the DLE-55 not be spirited in the R90 when the DLE-20 in the R70 is very spirited?



    Sorry, not trying to be an ass. Guess I'll never understand the desire to overpower an air frame.

  8. #5758

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    RE: Larger Revolver


    ORIGINAL: Sbach342Guy

    Sorry, not trying to be an ass. Guess I'll never understand the desire to overpower an air frame.
    It is just the thing to do Ok, just kidding here. I like a little extra power, yet nothing really drastic. I usually go OS55 were a OS46 would go, or a 30cc for a 26cc airframe and I like that sort of fit. To me that is not way overpowered, still handles the load and gives me that little extra power when I need it.

    We would have to test out the new Giant Revolver, but a 60cc might be just the ticket if she is a tad heavy.

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    A single step up I understand. It's when the engine upgrade is so severe that you have to replace all the hardware, reinforce the firewall, replace kit hinges, etc that it doesn't make sense to me. At that point you might as well just but a plane that is actually designed for the engine you are trying to use. ARF's are designed to handle certain structural loads. Using an OP engine will put loads on the airframe that it wasn't designed to handle. You could say that it becomes a safety issue at that point. I'm the safety officer at one of my clubs and I can't tell you how many OP planes I've seen turned into tooth picks.

  10. #5760

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Sbach - I've owned a few Rev 70's with different engines and the DLE 20 seems to me the very best engine for it. And that's 2x the recommended cubic inch. As far as how much you should customize \ reinforce an ARF, I think that's up to the owner. If we all thought the same way this hobby would get kind of dull, don't you think? (Ever see airraptor's videos where he's got an OS 120 2s in a Rev 59 doing GOD knows how fast? Very cool, IMHO). And I'd be surprised to hear of crashes caused by simply overpowering - more likely the combination of overpowering, under-building, poor flying. At least TWO of which I try to avoid!

    As with some others here, I'd much rather have extra power than not. I also enjoy pushing some of my planes slightly past their designed intentions, but with care and some judicious reinforcement. For example, I've never seen anyone do aerobatics with their Super Stearman or Kanke Monocoupe like I do - but I like to fly that way.

    Not trying to be confrontational - just saying - to each his own!

  11. #5761

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    i have a 27% extra 260 with a da 50 cc engine. the plane weighs total of 15 pounds, and the thrust, using a 23 x 8 prop is 20 pounds.

    if this new revolver giant is going to weigh 20 pounds or so, then i believe that bird needs a bigger engine than a 50, probably an 70 or 80 cc range,

    wow, that will be amazing!!!!


    ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun

    Mike
    Thanks for the details. At 19.5# (and book weights are always optimistically low - she will probably build more like the 20.5) performance will not be 'spirited' with the DLE55. My AW Ext300 weighs in at 17#15oz and is fine, but a plane 2-2.5# heavier; don't know. I have another Extra260 that is 1.5# ligher than the AW bird, and she is noticably more nimble, so another 2# in the other direction with the R90 will likely be an issue. The wing area, control surface area, cubic wing loading, etc will be interesting numbers to get.

    I was only half joking about the DA-60. Mintor 60 or 75 might be other good options.
    AMA # 982277
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  12. #5762

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Admittedly, I fly mostly electrics which all have a 2:1 power ratio. But, they all are using the recommended power systems so zero modifications were needed. I might have a different opinion if I actually liked to build. I barely have the patience to assemble an ARF. I just want to fly.

  13. #5763

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    RE: Larger Revolver


    You electric guys are so LUCKY.


    Except for the lack of engine sound and combustion and exhaust smoke ...


    Ha.

  14. #5764
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    RE: Larger Revolver


    ORIGINAL: microdon2


    You electric guys are so LUCKY.


    Except for the lack of engine sound and combustion and exhaust smoke ...


    Ha.
    And time, I can fly x 15 mins with most of my glows and 20 mins w my gasser. Actually I land when my neck hurts.

    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  15. #5765
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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Then fill up and up we go........
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  16. #5766

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Flight times are short but where I primarily fly we take turns so there is only ever one person flying at a time. I've got three batteries for each of my planes and it only takes me 15 minutes to recharge. I really don't have to wait between flights. Actually, even w/o taking turns I can fly almost non-stop. I've got two chargers and one of them is a four port charger. I do like that my 30cc gasser can fly seemingly forever on a single tank. I looked at some electric motors on HobbyKing that I could use in the R70. It would probably only cost me about $100 including shipping to convert. One last tuning attempt this weekend before I make my decision.

    One eBenefit is extremely low wing loading. My 60" Extra is only 16oz/sq.in. and my 48" MXS is only 14oz/sq.in. Combine ultra light wing loading with 2:1 power:weight and there is nothing you can't do.....except fly for 10 minutes straight!

  17. #5767

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Sbach
    For me, it is just preference. Yes, you can move a 6000# pickup truck with 4 cylinder engine, and it will move along the road, and eventually get to 55. Very 'practical'.
    Much better a 390hp engine.

    Planes fly fine with standard engines - "scale"-like.

    They fly better with more power. I disagree that it is a safety issue. It is the builder's responsibility to ensure that the structure will support the load. I have NEVER had an airframe pull apart due to having a larger engine. It is not that hard to beef up critical components.

    With a 20+ pound airframe, the R90 is asking for a 60cc at least, and the 75cc may be much better. In that regard I agree with ortho. I'm sure the R90 will get off the ground and fly sport ('scale-like') with a 30cc engine, but most of us don't fly like that. It is not just getting in the air, and flying circles; it's pushing the envelope.

    For those who like scale-like flying, that's great; what a great hobby! We get to make our own decisions.


  18. #5768

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    What he said.

  19. #5769

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Perhaps I missed this earlier in the thread but.....did anyone notice that the R70 on Tower Hobbies has new landing gear??? Or maybe it just looks like it is straight gear.

  20. #5770

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Chicken sticks work great on 50 cc planes. I have been using one for over 2 years. Unlike a glove, they fit in your pocket and are more convenient. They can also save your hand from an errant backfire. A glove may protect your hand from a laseration, but it won't protect you from a bone fracture or break. My first 50 cc engine began backfiring after hundreds of flights and on two occassions threw the stick over 30 feet and destroyed the wood prop. After a couple of flips, the stick feels as natural as your hand. You have nothing to loose by trying a stick and I think you will quickly find it pretty straight forward.

    Just got my Tower annual catalog today and it notes the new Giant Rev has a 90" wing span and an 82.5" fuse (wonder if that includes the spinner in the length?). With the low drag on that frame design, a DLE 55 should be great, especially the new one that has a rear mounted muffler, which should go along way to minimizing cowl mods. Have to wonder if this plane would be as aerobatic as my EF Yak or Extra.

    Unbelievable that a 50cc plane with preattached surfaces, an included aluminum spinner and cowl ring, built like the Giant Revolver could sell for $429, plus a $50 discount to members! Anyone else would be over $600 easy, and many not be built as well.

  21. #5771

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    I prefer using my Megatron starter. Since I've wired an adapter that hooks two 11v Lipos's together this thing has incredible torque - spins a 50cc with no problem. Was just hand-testing a used Sachs 3.2 that I picked up and it was kicking back - a bit scary for an engine that size. Using the starter makes it easy.

    SBach342 - I just looked as the Rev 70 - how are the LG different? Not swept back?

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    Yeah, it looks like the gear is striaght. There should be a fairly sharp bend right where the axle is. But, it moght be the angle the pic was taken.

  23. #5773

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    RE: Larger Revolver


    SBach342 - the Rev 70 LG does look to be straight - check it out in spare parts. You can see on the Rev 59 that the main gear is still curved. Seems like a strange thing to change, if it's true. All they have to do to make the gear strong (and I REALLY HOPE GREAT PLANES listened to us on this issue for the new Rev 90...) is make it a single, solid LG, like with most other large planes, make the bolt formation into a box \ four corner formation, and reinforce the flooring \ sides holding the blind nuts. That would be a pleasant surprise. Am also interested to see how GP's treated \ upgraded the rear gear on the Rev 90.

    btw - looks like TH has started to populate the Rev 90 Tech Notes section. Some info looks to be cut and pasted from the Rev 70. But one interesting factoid so far (if it's accurate):

    Rev 70 \ 59 - Wing loading: 25-29 oz/sq ft
    Rev 90 - Wing Loading: 34-36 oz/sq ft

    Seems to be a pretty significant jump. Does this mean the plane will not "float" like the Rev 70? Will it fly more like a warbird?


  24. #5774

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    RE: Larger Revolver


    ORIGINAL: microdon2


    SBach342 - the Rev 70 LG does look to be straight - check it out in spare parts. You can see on the Rev 59 that the main gear is still curved. Seems like a strange thing to change, if it's true. All they have to do to make the gear strong (and I REALLY HOPE GREAT PLANES listened to us on this issue for the new Rev 90...) is make it a single, solid LG, like with most other large planes, make the bolt formation into a box \ four corner formation, and reinforce the flooring \ sides holding the blind nuts. That would be a pleasant surprise. Am also interested to see how GP's treated \ upgraded the rear gear on the Rev 90.

    btw - looks like TH has started to populate the Rev 90 Tech Notes section. Some info looks to be cut and pasted from the Rev 70. But one interesting factoid so far (if it's accurate):

    Rev 70 \ 59 - Wing loading: 25-29 oz/sq ft
    Rev 90 - Wing Loading: 34-36 oz/sq ft

    Seems to be a pretty significant jump. Does this mean the plane will not ''float'' like the Rev 70? Will it fly more like a warbird?

    That's what those numbers would lead you to believe. I'm taking a wait and see approach regarding this plane's performance though. I don't think this plane's numbers fit into the normal (what we're used to seeing?) 50cc mold? It's wing is longer and it's heavier - and who knows what airfoil they're using. It really is hard to predict what it's going to be like in the air? The low sq. in. of wing area of the R70 scared me away from it for a long time. I would have predicted that it would fly like a warbird at it's weight..... I was used to planes with something closer to 1000 sq. in.?

  25. #5775

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    RE: Larger Revolver

    I just checked the wing-loading on my H9 P51 150 (80in). It's 33 oz/sq ft. I'm guessing there's more factors that create flight characteristics, like airfoil shape, wing shape, CG, power plant, etc. But so far the Rev 90 has the same or higher wing-loading than my P51.

    Would like to hear from some engineering-types out there. (though I'm betting I'll end up owning the Rev 90 regardless....)


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