VictoryRoll

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Hey Al !

Just wondering if you got my PM about some other Q's on the 3D foamie? I think I sent it on Dec. 5th. Not to bug you, and surely if your time does not allow, please deep six it, as I know we all have various time commitments... no worries.

Thanks Al.

Sorry to steal the thread for a min.

ahicks

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PM sent Don. I did respond earlier - in my normal extensive manner. Not sure what happened to it. -Al

mach2

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Gotta ask, what 3d foamie are we talkin about? Im interested in an affordable entry into 3d. Im tired of only performing 3d on real flight.

ahicks

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OK, here's the short story-
I decided a while back I wanted to learn/improve my 3D ability. Sims bore me inside of 15 minutes, so I needed something I could build some serious stick time with. It was going to crash, a lot, so it had to be cheap. I already have good 3D machines I can't afford to crash...

After poking around, these are what I came up with:
Yak-
http://www.nitroplanes.com/02a-008-1...d-epp-kit.html
Swift-
http://www.nitroplanes.com/02a-004-swift-epp-kit.html

They're big enough and heavy enough to handle wind up to about 10mph easily. The smaller 32" stuff won't. This lets you fly more frequently. If you go with the "kit" version of the ARF, a plane, with it's motor, metal gear servos, and speed control (minus battery and receiver), is about a hundred bucks, or about the same price as their ARF that comes with junk servos and sometimes questionable speed control.

They're made from EPP, so when they break (not an 'if' in my case), they break clean and can be easily glued back together using regular CA dozens of times. The hardware/electronics are very durable - rarely giving any trouble maintenance wise after a crash (except the props). There's also a 3x stabilizer that works really well if you like (I do!). 18.00 using your receiver, 25.00 built in to a dsm2 receiver.

Friends watching the plane(s) fly, and witnessing it's "surviveability" factor after hitting the ground repeatedly for the last 18 months or so, started asking about it, so I put a list of components together with hot links.

If you're thinking about 3D and looking for a "practice" plane that can be crashed on the cheap, I HIGHLY recommend these or something very similar (made from EPP for sure, NOT EPO! Those explode just like a balsa plane does...). They're cheap enough and so easily repaired they allow you to fly without fear of crashing. The planes are easiest to get through nitroplanes, everything else (except the 3x stabilizer) is through HK's stateside web site. The stabilizers come on HK's slow boat. They aren't available stateside (yet).

This is so off topic. Please PM for the list with a few more notes if interested. It's pretty lengthy, prefer not to waste the time of others here. Also, if you're already a 3D "pro", there are much better flying planes. These work well to get you to the point you aren't crashing frequently.

Mach, have PM'd the list to you

-Al

VictoryRoll

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Thanks Al, you're the best!

Sbach342Guy

Is it possible to put floats on the Revolver? I've heard that floats work better than skis in the snow.

mach2

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Someone posted photos last winter with skids. May have been you. Anyway, it may be worth going back to find it. He may have experience with it.

Robert Groves

Oh well, flight number six... all going well and really getting some good stick time in, full tank giving me 30 minutes flying..









Plane suddenly twitched..... then snapped and rolled .
I entered elevator and countered... nothing..

Throttle did ease off before it hot the ground..

It wasn't fail safe, and was flying like the plane is when it was turned on...
I found the fault, it was the battery connector, it was still connected but if you moved the wire some, it lost connection. then it easily broke completely.
Funny though that the LHS fixed this connector for me a week ago (purchased the battery there) as i saw the red one was loose.

The plane lost connection (the twitch)... surfaces slightly move.... when you turn it on, ailerons defelect fully opposite and rudder deflects.
If this didnt happen i may have saved her. Is there a way to program RX on positions? lol I dont think so....

Did you see the landing gear mod survived at least ... lol

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Man, that sucks. Nothing more frustrating than losing a plane to an equipment failure. Mine was up around 100 feet. I was moving stick like a mad man. Nothing. Just watched her fly into the ground. When I crashed my first one, I thought "well, that was stupid". The second one, I felt helpless and got a sick feeling in my gut after it hit. HAHA! I couldn't even go get it. Some club friends went and picked up the wreckage.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Condolences, that does look like a bad one!

How many flights on the charge when it quit? Battery type?

Interested in a cheap lightweight way that switch/power lead failure doesn't happen again?

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Tell us Al. Im always down to hear ways to keep my planes in the air.

ahicks

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ALL of my planes are done this way - I saw one too many smoking holes where a switch failed. This kills 2 birds with one stone, there's a bonus here too.

Add a second set of power wires coming from your battery. I won't go into that. It should be self explanatory, but do it right at the battery? Don't put a Y harness on the original lead.

First lead wires up like you've always done it. Second lead goes to a second switch, then to a Y harness plugged into the rudder servo. This second lead not only offers a major boost in available amperage to your rudder servo and the rest of the system by offering a straight shot to the battery without having to go through the receiver (the bonus!), it's also capable of back feeding your entire flight pack should ANYTHING happen to the first lead? That's total redundancy for all the wires and connections from the battery to the receiver!

Why the rudder servo? Because it can benefit the most from a direct path. It's likely the biggest draw you have on board.

Downside? None if you're trying to feed a bunch of high capacity and/or digital servos. This is almost a requirement - especially if you're running a single battery for your flight pack and ignition?

Cost? The price of another connector for your battery, a switch, and a Y harness. Pretty cheap after looking at this latest set of photos?

-Al

Robert Groves

Hi Al,

The switch on my plane was fine, didnt fail, even after the crash.
My battery is a LiFE 3200mah battery with 2 leads from it, I use the hyperion to power my RX and thre chinese connector for the ignition.
It was the hyperion crimp on the - that failed, the week before i saw metal exposed on the red and asked the LHS to replace the connector, or at least recrimp both, they ensured me it was done. On exp[laining this they only said they crimped the red.
I had my warning signs and didnt view them as they were.
The charge the night before saw the individual V measurment of the 2S going up and down. I put this to not knowing the charger and that it was trickle charging, meanwhile the loose connection was connecting and loosing connecting.
I didnt stand a chance in the air.
It was flight 1, 2 minutes in.
Murphy could have let me loose connection during a test on the ground .... and then it would not have happenned.

I like that upgrade on the battery. I think I will put it in in future.
I should have seen the signs. I have never had a battery or switch related failure in all my years... (3 hahaha)

Cheers

Robert Groves

I am using the same batter for ign and rx which i thought would mean i could not use the suggested redundancy to switch and power supply leads..... however..... Perhaps I can introduce the redundacy through the ignition channel... ie Y lead off the Ignition lead (ignotion stays the same), other emnd of the Y to a switch and into another Y into rudder and rx.

This way I am doing the exact redundacy path but have the ignition on the one path.
It would mean that the Rudder doesnt have straight shoot to the battery.... but pretty close..

Let me know what you think

R

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Using the Hobbico life batteries would be a cinch since the already have two standard leads coming off of them (which is what i used in the past). On the Edge 540 im rebuilding right now Im going to try out a 2100mah Redwing Life batt, which has on deans, and only standard connector. http://www.redwingrc.com/index.php?m...gu3rglv91fovt7 The Hobbico 3200mah was too expensive and way to much battery. My math told me I could do something like 15 flights before hitting the 25% mark. I do 4-5 flights at the most per plane.

Anyway, Im going to use the one battery with two leads and two switches for the redundancy like you said. Im probably going to use an adapter off the deans so I dont have to splice anything. http://www.redwingrc.com/index.php?m...gu3rglv91fovt7

Ive never done any wiring modifications. Can you explain (or just show a picture) how to splice the second lead in at the battery? Ive got some small lipos that im going to try out that only have one connector (plus the balance lead).

On my next Revolver Im planning on doing a full redundant system with two of these 2000mah lipos with two switches. This way, if either battery OR switch fails, Ill be good to go. Ill probably use one of these for added insurance so that the good battery wont be trying to charge the bad battery. http://d7kx18lgvr3p4.cloudfront.net/Tech-Tip%200601.pdf Im going to contact Ed and see if the PLR5-DR2 is still available. Its cheaper than buying two PLR5s.

motor12

I just checked the delivery date for the Revolver on Tower hobbies site and it now says ON ORDER two days ago it said due in late December. I had my local hobby shop order one for me two weeks ago and it was back ordered. I hope they filled the back order for my hobby shop and my revolver is on the way. I have all the servos, the DLE20, the receiver and everything else needed to get this bird in the air, I hate to wait for the next container from China..

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Motor12 - have patience! It's worth the wait!

Mach2, I peel insulation on the battery back to the point I can actually solder on the extra lead where the factory attaches theirs? It's not that hard at all. Obviously really easy if you're building your own packs using the genuine A123 cells.

Here's something else to consider? The wires you need are right there in that balance lead? You could splice a futaba end on the balance lead and use that as your second lead? Or build an adapter?

That idea taken a step further, would have you splicing a 3 wire Futaba end on to the balance lead (pos to pos, neg to neg, and the white Futaba wire to the balance lead from the battery). Then, if you use one of the switches with the built in charge jack, you could make an adapter for your charger and use the charge jack in the switch harness for your balance lead? This allows charging the battery without fumbling around inside the plane..... something else I do on all of mine. NOTE: if you try this, make SURE you cut that white wire on the output side of the switch!!! Otherwise the radio isn't going to work, as you're feeding the receiver with voltage from the balance lead.

VictoryRoll

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Al and all ! First an early Happy New Years to everyone!

Al, thanks for the redundancy idea, great stuff, will use in all my planes now, for sure. One question, I would love to make my own A123 packs using genuine cells too... Who do you buy from and are there any tips or tricks or procedural notes that I should pay attention too when making? Also, do you buy bulk...maybe we could go in on an order and save $$$, or even others here could join in and make a hefty order that will save $$$ for all who wish to build their own packs. I am not sure with shipping of the savings would be negated, but worth asking at least.

Hope you Christmas was everything you wished it to be and same goes for on on the LR board!

- Don

Dreamtime

Happy new year to all. I have been waiting for weeks for some decent weather (our summer here in New Zealand) but it has been rather wet and windy. However this morning the rain cleared but there was a gusty crosswind. I could wait no longer, so after range check and some ground runs, I throttled up. My electric system has oodles of power. Slowly advancing throttle got the tail up and then next thing she lifted gently into the skies. I needed not even 1 tiny bit of trim -- she was perfect straight off. I flew with CG at 6" and first thing after checking trim I did my inverted up lines and power off 45 down glide, conforming spot on CG. The minimum throws were painfully inadequate, so I flicked to max rates at this point. I feel that they could still be increased a wee bit. Knife edge is excellent but I will add more rudder throw for a bit more control. Inverted was totally neutral with no tendency to dive -- my thrust angle must be spot on. (with the cowl on there is a larger gap between the spinner and cowl on the top side versus the bottom. I think that those aiming for a perfect alignment will end up with too little down thrust). The wind was very gusty between 5 and 10-12mph, but she handles these effortlessly. Landing I found to be pretty painless, I chopped throttle but with the wind soon realised that she needed a power on landing. She sank predictably and floated a wee bit with the gusts, but settled down as sweet as a trainer. I did get her a bit slow inverted at one point resulting in a pretty smart snap which she pulled out of comfortably after 2 quick spins. So these are my observations of the maiden flight as regards handling. My electric power system generated just under 2000W on the ground, and giving full throttle got her really moving -- I did not log, but knowing the flying field and my other planes, certainly over 100mph. I did not try a straight up vertical but am sure that she would just keep going. AUW was just over 10lb. SO there is nothing to fear about this plane -- she just loves to fly. Thanks for the help Don and AL, it was worth it.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

VR-
This guy is out of Ohio, and at 12 bucks per cell for new genuine A123, has a pretty good price already? He does get 10 bucks to ship, so it pays to order enough for 2 or 3 packs at a time?

Ebay is where I found him:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-A123-BAT...53ed9#shpCntId

But he'll sell direct as well. His website:
http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/serv...LLS/Categories

There are other places to get them, but I've been going through this guy for a while now and have been treated fairly on every shipment to date. He gets the orders out right away, and out of maybe 20 cells, haven't received a bad one yet, so I'm sticken with him?

If you're going to mess with building your own packs (or modify others) and you want to do a clean job, you'll want some shrink tube to slide over your work when done to protect them. That stuff is a pain in the rear to find anymore, but our friends at Tower stock this in clear. Works perfectly: : http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...6&I=LXUDK9&P=K

Hope everyone is enjoying their holidays?
-Al

Luchnia

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Wow...if you were closer - I have a brand new one in the box and some extra goodies too

VictoryRoll

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Al, thanks so much for the info. Will order some up and build a few. On heat shrink, I buy mine from Home Depot, in obviously, Electrical dept. They have mixed size tube pkg.'s (multi-color) and fixed, something like 3/8" tubes. Electrical contractor stores also have all you will ever need in this stuff, as well as more, if you have one nearby.
Is there a reason why you buy the TH ones? I don;t know what is meant by "stick" tubes?? Do you wrap the (sized) sheet and it self-seals, then shrink? Thanks Al.

Brian, CONGRATS ! So happy for you! Did you modify the thrust angle with washers? I did washers to put a tad more down. That worked too...for me. It sounds like your maiden was spot on and fun!

ahicks

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VR, the shrink tube in that link is big enough to slide both cells of a 2 cell pack into?

VictoryRoll

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OK, I'm the stupidest person on the planet today ! I was thinking of wire shrink tube after soldering redundancy wires... may bad. I will now shrink into the basement now.

Thanks Al.

-Don

ahicks

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Lol!