el_xero

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Ah the regular APC, isnt a 16x8 a tad beyond the recommendations for the DLE 20 though? I take it you didn't notice anything out of the way using it though right?

oopse my bad.. I just checked I'm totally wrong on that one ha!

mach2

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All your buddies are going to want one. The Revolver gets more attention than most big 50cc sized planes at my field. And that's saying something since there are only two 50cc planes in the club that I know of. So it's a big deal when one gets brought out.

el_xero

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More Attn than a 50CC eh? must be because of the looks of it. It's lovely and different from the standard edge, yak, extra, katana's which probably dominate flight clubs.
You might be right about them wanting one haha today one of them talked about bigger planes and his interest in them.
The guys finally go to see it in person today after we came back from some late afternoon flying.
one person is dying to hear that DLE, and when he saw all the mods said " you're really going all out on this one boy"
well I kinda had to. It's not glow anymore after all so I need to beef things up lol.

I got a little more work done.
Installed the fittings for the control surfaces rudder ailerons. Had to do the rudder twice as I had it too high and it would hit against the
elevator at full deflection.

Though it wont do much harm the holes for the aileron are slightly angled, it's ugly but only if you look at it
haha
it will work though. need to order a new tank as the original one is glow and though I cleaned it out with new gas I don't think it it did the trick.. having it soak a little in some denatured alcohol cuz the pluming (copper and tygon seems to have gotten a bit of green gunk growing on/in them it ever since I used gas in there.

Up next is the mounting the engine, and figure out pluming, choke and throttle servo locations
Might have to re-drill my mounting holes for the engine mount. They are a tad close making for a tight squeeze on the engine.

I can fit it in there just dunno if its such a good idea to force it even if its a little bit.

No right-down thrust in the new firewall so gonna need to use some washer spacers.
so far with nothing in the plane and engine up front its tail heavy.. but landing gear isn't on yet and full electrics have not yet been installed so I'm pretty sure it might end up nose heavy before the elevator servos get dropped in.

Will report back later with some pics after my next set of work shifts are done.

superduke1

I've just started on the wing assembly and have notice that the ailerons on both wings are warped. Has anyone seen this before on the revolver.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Alex, moving those servos that far back is definitely going to change the CG. The DLE isn't a very heavy engine, so I'd imagine you'll end up having to put your battery as far forward as you can. Probably on the engine box.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Yes actually Mine is the same and when I first flew her I felt like you it might be an issue. even my hinges for the CA hinges were not exactly lined up properly. I built and flew it anyway and I did not even need to adjust trim to get her flying straight as an arrow.
Don't worry about it, you'll correct it with your trims. You should be fine. Continue building it.

el_xero

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I was thinking the same thing just yesterday actually, I'll see how it pans out. I've still go the landing gear to put on cdi spinner and prop to add in so might not need too much weight, but I can always add a separate 2300mah 6v lifepo4 just for the ignition I Imagine that would def fix me up ha.

Had to fill up my engine mount holes for sure.. as i noticed that the engine squeezed in there caused the main firewall to buckle a bit.. and I did not like that bending one bit. Second time will be a charm! Devcon 30 min epoxy hardens like rock! love it

superduke1

ex_xero thank for the reply so did you align the inboard or outboard end of the aileron with the wing or split the difference? Good to hear that yours flies well. I was thinking the same thing this could make for a very interesting first flight.

el_xero

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It flew well yes, and since the crash a couple of years back it has now been re-built and I would like to add that it has the same "warp" as it did before.

If I line up the outboard ends, the inboard ends show an obvious down angle on both wings.
And if I were to line up the inboard ends, There will be an obvious up angle on both wings, on the outboard ends.

I'm not in the least bit bothered either way as I'm sure trims will fix any issues.

I can not recall how I lined it up for my first flight (inboard or out) to be honest with you.
However thinking about it now If you were to ask my advice, I would suggest that if yours is anything like I've described,
that you line up the outboard ends with the wings that way you will have a natural "flap" like effect going on with your wing on the inboard section. Alternatively if you're the exact opposite then line up the inboard end so that the outboard end angles down. Same effect to my mind and either way I just can't see that being a bad thing.

If yours is different on both wings, ie: one wing will twist up while the other down, then your trims will fix any twisting/roll tendency which the plane may exhibit during flight.

I do have a video of my first flight however it's rather quarrelsome with some "characters" provoking me before and during my very maiden

(I especially disliked that they would choose a maiden to bother me not to mention comparing my lovely bird with a DC6? How dare they! lol)

So I've never bothered to upload the thing. All I can say is that the plane couldn't wait to get off the ground on its own and so I was compelled to
input "up" elevator the second it was airborne at half throttle with an O.S. 1.20AX (very nice engine)

I recall zero trim adjustments if any at all and it flew straight as an arrow. The fact that there was aileron warp wasn't even a memory.

You should be fine.

el_xero

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In an earlier post, someone mentioned something about using the model called "shoe string" in real flight to practice flying the revolver.

I remember trying that suggestion out some time ago and I didn't enjoy it one bit.
The model, although it felt "heavy" was rather zippy, had an unusually wide turn radius, much more than I was used to, and reminded me
very much of the super sportster in real flight. I remember having to edit the super sportster with expos (set on my radio) and increase the control surface throws just to get the thing working sort of like my real life model. Finally I found some settings that worked and that
insanely long landing glide path was shortened and the model behaved more favorably.

I didn't bother to edit the shoe string back then, because I had no clue what to touch. I didn't own a shoe string so I didn't feel like I aught to bother.
Besides, I hadn't flown my revolver nearly enough to even begin to make a comparison of the two.

Today I decided to have an other go at it and decided to do the same as I did with the sportster.
Much to my delight, the shoestring came alive. In spite of the model being "heavy" and fast and needing a long glide path I wen't at it and
tried an other suggestion which I read about (I'm not sure if it was in here). Something called 'slow them for landing" was the title of the main thread which I think people discussed it.

It dealt with the idea of having different approaches to landing planes and slowing them down enough to land properly. The main Idea being
that you use the throttle to control altitude and the elevator to control the rate of decent/speed of the model.
The first time I read that I trusted the info although I had difficulty wrapping my head completely around it. Still, I tried it and thought "i'd gotten it"
until today.

I applied this to the shoe string, but time and again I couldn't get the thing to touch down where I wanted it to. It took a heck of a lot of throttle management and worst, this style of landing requires one to fly their model frightfully close to stall, (far too close for my comfort, given all the wind gusts we're used to at our regular field).

I thought to myself, "I can never work up the nerve to fly my model into the gusting wind with a nose up attitude like that, that close to stall...That's flat out crazy and I'd end up spending time in the shop with my model."

I persisted and got better and more comfortable doing this in the sim today. I tried it with an extra 330S the shoe string heck even a pt40.
I realized that all of them require a different touch with the extra especially needing very much rudder correction along with aileron when I misjudged and went into a stall (pretty easy to do with that thing-not to mention scary)

well...after hmm perhaps 1 to 1 and a half hrs total practice time I think I'm getting rather good feel for this and should be about ready to add some environmental gusts to my sim to see how I do.

I like the shoe string now, and I like landing this way. I'd have never thought that the shoe string could fly slowly like that and I even found my self somewhat getting into a harrier with the extra using muuuch rudder and just about every thing else to keep from spinning into the ground.

I'd like to become very proficient at this method before the last of my parts arrive.

Question,
I'd like those of us still here, who may have used this method to post their throw settings for at least elevator and why they chose them.
I know that too much elevator throw could cause stall/snap on landing and that some people have set it so that their elevator never gets to that critical angle. A heads up on how far/how much I should set at my limit would help greatly.

P.S. Sorry for the long post guys.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Do what you like for elevator on high rate, for low there is something I've been doing on most of my planes for quite a while. Set it up so you can't stall the plane with full up applied!

Take it up 3 mistakes high, pull the power and slow it down, then start pulling back on the stick. If it stalls you have too much elevator "up" throw. Simple... and you'll be surprised at how effective low rate elevator still is at higher speeds. Don't totally kill the amount of "up" throw. Keep as much as you can without stalling the plane. Take your time and get this "just right". It will be time well spent, I can assure you. Make sure to do this AFTER finalizing your CG adjustments!!! If you change CG, you'll have to do this elevator adjustment over again. If you read all the talk about slowing for landing, you can see where all this is VERY closely related!

Using an elevator adjusted this way, combined with the throttle managed approaches you're talking about above, should let you play happily for quite a while seeing what this plane, as well as others (that might be more 3D capable?), can do....

Slow flight can be MUCH more challenging than buzzing around boring holes in the sky. It's ALL about control..... and much more difficult than it looks! The Rev 70 is actually pretty good about being forced into this kind of behavior if kept under 10lbs or so. Some of the guys in one of the clubs I belong to thought it was a 3D plane?

Shoestring is a go fast/pylon racer. Very high wing loading - which is why it felt heavy. To fly more like a Rev 70, you need to find something with a longer tail moment and more wing area. Not a sim fan (I get bored inside of 15 min.), so I can't be of much more help. -Al

el_xero

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Ahhhh sounds familiar, I think you might be the one who mentioned it in an earlier post ahicks.
I'll def give it a go. The idea of using full up elevator at low speed and still not stalling is exactly what I'm after, takes the load off my hands and brain. Thanks for those suggestions.

Okay so I'm back hunting for an other plane to practice with, hmm perhaps an edge 540?
I'm glad I flew the shoestring though It's not something id initially go for because of the way I couldn't land it well initially but now I love the thing ha.

I'm really glad to hear the revolver behaves nicely at low speeds, sadly I think mine will likely be above the 10lb range seeing that it's been rebuild and just one of my wings are already over 1lb which means I'm going to have to load up the other one too. I just can't justify buying a full wing set for $110 and I goofed using wood instead of carbon fiber to fix mine. Oh well, I'm sure it will still fly nicely and land well also. It will just be heavier ha.

I think what you do with the sim is just about what every one over here does with it. I get bored too but that's only because I loose focus and staring horsing around rather than focusing on working on something specific.

These days I decide on what I'm going to work on and for about 5 minutes practice that, and that alone. Then I shut the thing off and carry on with my life. I'll come back at it later and do the same thing until I've racked up
a fair amount of practice. I've found I improve very quickly this way, get less bored and generally use the sim
for what It was really invented for in the first place rather than trying my hand at the millions of aircraft the thing comes with.

Generally I'll stick with flying something I own, lord knows I need the practice and I won't get it flying F-16's and SR71's all over the place.

This works for me and makes it worth having the sim on hand. Had it not been for the sim I'd have never
tried this landing approach in real life. So now because of it I can confidently have at it.. seriously lol.

Thanks again.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Properly motivated to get some stick time, it doesn't take me that much longer to go out to the field and fly a few battery packs through a couple of foamies. Big crashes are unusual any more, and the little ones not a lot more painful than they are on a sim? The beauty of the EPP foamies I've been flying lately, is that no matter how hard you hit the ground with them, you can generally have them back in the air within just a few minutes. The EPP foam ALL of mine are made from breaks clean, and regular CA works like a charm. Push the parts back together, hit them with CA, and you're flying again....

Down side is landing them. They don't weigh anything, so there's NO momentum to carry you through the flair like everything else you've flown since learning how. I miss that. Although they can be "flown in" about the easiest way to do it is to come in while in "Harrier" mode, and set it down at your feet.

Whatever, improving your flying ability is about building stick time - any way you like is just fine. -Al

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

I totally agree with you there on the stick time and using foamies as cannon fodder.
I'd be doing the same thing too if getting to a field wasn't such a bother.

Had I my own ride, I'd likely be doing more flying than sim just like you. Sadly I can only fly when my buds fly and I can only fly when my day off falls on
a sunday, so those are few and faaaaar between at times. So I'll get good at something then find I have an inevitable long break and get rusty all over again.
Sim helps keep me in check. It's as you say, Any way you keep your skills are just fine.

My EPP foamies are high speed deltas though they fly nothing like my trainer and likely wont fly like the revolver I can't imagine they would be much help in
landing revolver, hm but maybe I've been doing it all wrong haha.

you're right though stick time rules.

Dreamtime

Someone asked earlier for pictures of the DLE RA engine mounting. So here they area. It certainly is a neater installation with much less plug and cap poking out the bottom of the cowl. I sanded the motor mount down at the back in order to put some extra plywood against the plane motor mount box -- visible on3rd picture. My take on throttle installation fabricating a simple H frame cage bolted to the L side of the front fuse. This gives a straight run for the throttle 4/40 rod exiting below the lower motor mount bolt. My take on the choke rod using the left over piece of motor mount as a guide. I only use Dubro ball joints on all these connections. This plane is such fun. I had a quick midweek fly with a low could base -- the echo of this DLE off the clouds during a full throttle fly past with just awesome -- it simply double the noise with a second or so delay which on this occasion would resonate. This engine is worth the extra build details needed just for those moments. As the engine is breaking in those revs just keep getting higher -- still using an APC 15x8. Vertical so far is effortless and as high as we are allowed + some. Apply rudder during a knife edge and she just climbs. I have not tried knife edge loops but there is probably enough grunt to manage these effortlessly. I had some doubts initially but as this little engine is breaking in, I can say absolutely that this is the perfect engine for this Revolver.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Very nice Dreamtime! Thumbs up! you've given me some ideas too! Love that spinner!
That DLE RA looks awesome. I see you've put the engine as far back as it will go and didn't mind that one of the speed needles
were resting against one of the mounting cap screws. I'm supposing that you have no issues tuning because of this?
How did you manage to mount that block of engine mount onto a piece of metal for the choke lever? Never thought of doing that.

Again that's a really nice job! Glad to hear she flew well!

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Very nicely done Dreamtime!

Re: that spinner, it's the same one I use. MUCH lighter than the one that comes with the plane! With the weight this far forward, spinner can be quite a factor when it comes to configuring your CG!

Dreamtime

Thanks for the nice comments Al. I also like these spinners as I have never had one that needs balancing -- they work straight out of the box. el_xero -- the high speed screw does not touch -- gets about 1.5mm of clearance. If it did touch, the vibration would soon have things way out. I attached the choke piece of motor mount to some galvanised steel with a small bolt cut off to length. I am still playing around with CG and up/down thrust a bit. In electric mode I had the thrust angle and CG just perfect and copied this exactly with the DLE conversion, but somehow she is pulling down quite strongly. I have just put a wee bit of up in using washers -- will see how it goes later this week. I got the photos while I had everything off.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Sooo where do we get those spinners?

ahicks

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You'll need to trim for your prop, and if you do that anything like I do, you'll want to check for balance afterward...


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEBE9

superduke1

Dreamtime, Great pictures of the DLE 20RA install I'm also installing the same engine do have you any photos of the cut outs on the bottom of the cowl. Your throttle servo install is a good idea.

Dreamtime

Hi superduke -- here are some photos. I created an air dam at the back which creates a very nice venturi effect for drawing out all that air entering through the front of the cowl. Also helps to keep stable air pressure within the cowl (that's the theory!) Well it works very well with the engine staying nice and cool even with my flying which is mostly throttle wide open at present -- she is just such fun like this. You need to cut out a bit extra behind the muffler in order to slide the cowl over the downpipes.

iflywhenican

My Feedback: (1)

Great job Dreamtime. You just boosted my incentive to do the same to my Rev. Thanks for the pics.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Nice work Dreamtime, I see you didn't use the plastic stinger extensions, you don't mind the clean up after flying then?

Just got my servos yay! I can continue now

Dreamtime

Hi el_xero -- The extensions will really make those down tubes too long I feel. The clean up is absolutely minimal, and as the engine breaks in, the residue gets less and less. If you look carefully at the photos you can see some residue behind each pipe, but this is all since the first flights with this engine and no cleaning till now. She got her first clean up today as our winter season has now kicked in. We had a magnificent summer farewell from the weather gods this W/E with crisp blue sky and gentle breeze. Now it is time for some maintenance and trying to get the muffler to stay on. I forget to mention that it seems all rear mount mufflers have a common problem -- the rotational loads of the engine shake the muffler from side to side like a dog with a bone. This is a very efficient way to loosen things up. The 2 bolts on a side mount muffler move up and down in unison and are much more likely to stay put. I have used permatex copper gasket maker and Loctite, but one bolt persistently manages to get a bit loose. I am going to persist with better brands of Loctite and am sure I will get this sorted eventually.

PS those servos (Hitec if I recall) are excellent. They draw very few amps -- I only put back about 150-180mA after a 40 minute flying day. Fuel economy with the DLE is brilliant. I usually put in about 400ml and find that 20+ minutes of high speed flying uses about 1/2 this. Now here is a good tale about the quality of those Hitecs. I have Turnigy Nanotech Life 1500 bats that I use for the revolver and 2 identical LIPO bats for other uses. I recently connected up the Lipos by mistake putting the full 8.4volts directly into the receiver/servos. Flew at least an hour like this before the PowerHD throttle servo called it quits -- required a dead stick. The hitecs and amazingly the receiver were fine.