el_xero

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hmmmI dunno.

what did you use?

el_xero

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hm yeah you're right I'm not a fan of squishing anything either.

I've finally balanced! just need to cover my left wing tip, just a few teeny things to do, finish running the engine in and then fly.
anyone using Redline synthetic in their engines? I'm using an ashless lawn mower two stroke oil for the breakin run and already the stuff is super black coming out.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

You're going to get a lot of black stuff coming out at first, until it starts cleaning up when broken in.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Its basically a screw that goes through the aileron, elevator or rudder, then the control surface is pinched by the plastic washer and the cone shaped nut. Since the control surface is obviously tapered, it has to deform the surface to be tight enough to not come loose. I'd go with what you're looking at over my hardware.

Jeremy

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Oh, el-xero...was that ring replacement video any help?

I put two flights on it yesterday (I was busy flying my new big plane) after I installed the Bowman ring. It took some flipping to get it started the first time. I hadn't flown it in at least a few weeks. The compression was definitely better and she started up in two flips for the second flight. Good stuff.

Jeremy

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks ahicks. I was really wondering about that because it's super black.
I've even looked into red line SI-1 fuel system cleaner to see if I can do something about cleaning up all that carbon after the break in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Dunno If that will help or not.

Jeremy That vid did indeed help quite a bit I'm sorry for not saying anything. Made me quite comfy with taking apart my engine and doing the ring change now thanks bundle for
going through the trouble for me.

Oh and I have your exact hardware on my elevator and the other ones I showed you on my ailerons. Mine were too long for the elevator so I used the ones you have for the elevator instead.
I still don't trust either or them, (paranoia) I just see it shifting right or left under pressure no matter what! I'm thinking of dropping CA on the threads or something lol.

I've got an issue with my engine guys.

I don't know if it has to do with my clunk or if it's because I've go the three line set up.

I've got this using right now

http://www.amazon.com/Stens-610-393-...er+fuel+filter

I'm thinking of changing to this

http://www.amazon.com/SUNBELT--Fuel-...r+fuel+pick+up

I've got this problem where this engine will not suck the fuel into the carb when I choke the engine unless I stick my finger behind the carb and block the little
hole that's in the carb butterfly.

I def can't flip start mine because it simply will not pull fuel so I must use the starter and block that hole sigh.. I'm going to switch the clunk fliters and see if that's whats causing my issue.
Also I notice I need about 20 cranks of fuel in the tank for things to get going at all.
It's the original tank which came with the plane.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

I solder that hole closed first thing on every new engine I get after discovering how much better they draw that way. While you're at it, it's also a good idea to check to see if that plate is centered in the throttle bore so the choke is able to close completely and seal all the way around it.

Doubt the clunk has anything to do with it.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Have you checked the reeds? I don't know how old your engine is, but when I ordered my ring, Frank bowman sent an email on the reeds and reed block. It recommended sanding the surface to make sure the reed is flush on it. But that just reminds me that I've read that split or worn reeds can make it very difficult to start. That's a very easy thing to replace too.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Hm I see, ok so I've got a couple things to look into then thanks guys.

I also forgot to mention that I've used neoprene tubing inside my tank. I inspected it just now and found them to be very soft softer than the other lines outside of the tank.
then I realized that the clunks are able to slide right off then with almost zero effort.

I watched a video from horizon hobby about their Evo 10CC and talking about this tubing and there not being a need to tie it down like you would need with tygon so I didn't do that inside of the tank
(oddly enough I did that every where else) but after seeing how soft this stuff gets... I went ahead and zip tied it all. now I'm wondering if it was possible that my fuel issue was cuz of the loose fit.
I'll know tomorrow. and then I'll look into soldering that hole and those reeds really dread taking apart the carb though guys lol.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Ok so I tried soldering that hole on the choke. Result being that the flip flip now draws fuel nicely (choke on) and I was even able to flip start a couple times today.

Don't have any new gaskets so I'm not going into the carb to look at the reeds yet. I'll check that out later.

I've done something suggested by an engine guy. He said run the engine at close to full rpm for 30 sec let it cool completely and
do it again for 5-10 times then put it on the plane and go fly.

He said this equates to running the engine for 30 min and is a better way to do the initial run in. On my second cold start it already started coughing.
So I guess It's doing something. I'm ready to put it in the air now just need to readjust the high speed and low speed for transition now.
Gonna run a gallon of gas through it before switching up to redline synthetic have to get that ordered today.

I did switch up to the smaller filter/clunk and zip tie everything inside the tank this time too I can draw fuel on low fuel (20 cranks) now I don't know what did it but I'm glad for it.

I'll report back later. I'll probably get to test fly some time next week. I was hoping for sunday coming but the motor cross guys will be using the place we normally fly out of so no go there.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

El_xero, I thought the engine was one that you had been using on a plane for a while now. Is this a new engine?

If it's a new engine the reeds shouldn't be a problem unless they weren't installed correctly from the factory, or the reed block has some flashing on it that isn't allowing them to close all the way. For giggles, I took the block out of my RCGF 26cc before I ever ran it. I used my hobby knife and cleaned up all the flashing on the inside to give smooth air flow. I also took it out to ensure the reeds were sitting properly.

I know some guys cover the hole on the diaphragm cover plate. I've never needed to do that. I think the issue most guys have is their motor not running properly in the air because of air pressure in the cowl. I always make a habit of cutting a large exit hole for the air in the bottom of the cowl. If I remember right, the standard rule is to have 2/3 larger exit hole than what you have going in.

As for the carb drawing fuel in while flipping the prop, I've had the best results with the choke off and throttle wide open. Once I see fuel has made it to the carb, I flip it 3-4 more times, put the choke on, throttle about half or more (this is for the first start on a brand new motor), ignition on and flip until it wants to start. For safety reasons I turn the ignition off (I've reached in to turn the choke off and had the prop try and bite me because the magnet got close to the hall sensor and caused a spark), turn the choke off, ignition back on and flip until it starts. Everyone has a slightly different approach, but my method has always worked really well for me. The only difference when I start my engines after break-in is that I have the throttle at 1/4. If the engine is still warm from a flight I'll skip the choke. If it's cooled down I'll choke it just to make it easier.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Here are the pictures that Frank Bowman sent me. Because I told him my DLE20 was getting harder to start he recommended (along with installing his piston ring) removing the reed block and sanding it to ensure that the reeds had a flat surface to mate up with. Take a flat surface or a flat block with a fine sand paper on it and run the block back and forth on it to true it up.

Jeremy

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

In regards to break in, that's another thing that there are a million different opinions on. The way you decided to do it seems like it would work fine. I personally like to fly mine when I'm breaking them in. I don't like going through all the hassle of setting up an engine stand. Some guys will run them on the ground for extended periods of time while mounted to the plane. I don't like having all that extra stress from vibration and torque that comes from running the plane on the ground, especially with something big like my RCGF 60cc. That's a ton of torque and vibration on a restrained plane!

What I typically do is mount the engine on the plane (I test my fuel tank thoroughly before I install it) with the faith that I can get it started and I do the heat cycling in the air. Luckily I haven't had an engine that I couldn't get started. I do very little ground tuning because its really pointless. I just make sure it revs up smoothly and sounds good at full throttle on the ground (and it's taching close to what it should). So, on the first few flights I'll keep it short. Around 4-5 min. I'll do full power vertical pulls until the plane is as high as I feel comfortable taking it and then pull the throttle all the way back and come down on a 45 degree downline to let it cool, then fly with about 1/4 throttle back to where I did my vertical pull and do it again. I do this probably 4-5 times on the first few flights (letting it cool way down between flights). I may tune a little between the flights if the engine sounds like its gonna need a lot of tuning (running fat with a lot of burbling). If not, I'll wait to get the engine fine tuned after about the 3rd flight, then start getting it dialed in where I want it.

I used to run a castor oil mix (Maxima 927) at the recommended 32:1 before switching to Amsoil synthetic at 50:1 (amsoil recommends 50:1). I love the smell of the Maxima 927 Castor oil (it's a sweet smell and reminds me of when I raced motocross), but it is a messy oil. Not only does it leave quite a bit of oil on the plane, but it also caused a lot of buildup of carbon on the piston and cylinder. I read through Amsoil's info on their website and they say that it's absolutely fine to break-in an engine on Amsoil. I decided to give it a try on my new RCGF 60. I've got 15 flights on it so far. We'll see how it turns out I guess...

Anyway, that's just kinda how I do things.
Jeremy

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Hey Al, are you talking about covering the hole in the choke butterfly? I've never heard of that. I have heard of guys covering the hole in the diaphragm cover plate, but that's a totally different deal.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Jeremy, This DLE is my very first gas engine I've only ran it on this rebuilt revolver this month for the first time ever. I got it about hmm 4 years ago with the intention of putting it on
a GP Extra 300S Kit which I've got sitting on my shelf for about the same amount of time. I bought this engine along with an O.S. 1.20. Since I was already comfy with glow I went ahead and flew the revolver with
the 1.20 and it was wonderful (for 20 min - two flights) till it met its end. The plane was rebuilt by one of my flying buddies and I gave him the 1.20 as a thank you for all these years or rebuilding for me

I don't get to fly very often, only if I'm really lucky will I get to go out two or three times in a row, once a week. So this engine has never tasted actual flight. I figure since I've got it on the plane already anyway and I'm
not yet fully set up or going to get any air time soon I might as well try to run it in a bit (to my mind for security against dead sticks etc - old glow engine habit I guess) I live about 1000 ft above sea level, and we fly at sea level.
I thought to myself that perhaps that would help if I ran it in up here ( difference in air pressure - I dunno). I suppose it has more to do with being inside of a cowl. I've read about the triple size exit hole vs inlet on cowls
and I didn't bother doing that on the 1.20 nor the dle because I realized that most of the engines head is sticking out of the cowl (I thought that was just for cooling) but now that you mentioned pressure inside the cowl
I'm starting to think I might have to.. we'll see how that goes for now I would like to test it as is and go from there.

I've tried choke off throttle wide open flip flip and it wouldn't draw and I couldn't get it going without the engine starter, even then I needed to stick my finger down to block that hole one the choke butterfly.
That's the hole I meant. I've soldered it shut, zip tied my lines changed out my clunk filters to the smaller one, and now with the choke closed and almost any throttle setting I can draw fuel on flip flip.
Today I ran the engine 4 times and was able to actually flip start 3 out of the 4 times. Was able to start once from cold without choking again, all other times I needed to chock and flip 1-4 times to get it popping cold or hot.
Perhaps you're right and there might be an issue with my tank it's self, I just don't know. So far though it seems to be behaving now now that I soldered that hole shut.
I tried something today because it happened once and I found that odd. I once chocked and put the engine starter to the engine expecting the pop and cut off so that I could take the choke off and get it going, but the thing
kept running with the choke closed....I found that kinda odd as, to me, chock isn't supposed to allow the engine to keep going.
So today I decided to see if it would run choke closed (butterfly hole soldered shut) and it did. so kinda says to me that my choke isn't exactly choking as it should? What do you think?

Anyway, I got the blurb out of the engine so far and it's not hesitating from idle to full throttle anymore. Turns out I needed to actually lean the bugger out not make it more rich. I must have been somewhere near 2 turns open on the idle needle before it finally wouldn't run for more than a few seconds and I just said heck I'm going back and lean it out (actually the blurb went away on my first run when I leaned it out but everything I read said I needed to richen and I didn't want to hurt my engine so I did so, who knew) Now It transitions nicely I've got a silencer on the singer exhaust which supposedly takes away a few hundred rpm from the engine so I'm down 500 rpm from the 9000 wot which the manual quotes for 2.5hp. about 1700 to 1800 rpm for idle. Everytime I leaned out the idle it seems to have sped up a little so I down trimmed the throttle to get it back down. So far so good I'd say I'm good for a re-maiden or maiden on this newly rebuilt plane, just need to cover my wing tip and drill access holes into the cowl for the needles and I'm good... Yeah I think that's all I need to do.

Your method for breaking-in in the air is almost exactly what I did to help one of our guys break in his evo 10cc and is exactly what I intended to do on this dle, we're using poulan weed eater two stroke oil though. I don't think they really sell synthetic two stroke oil over here. I've heard/read good things about redline from Redwing Rc and other places so I'm thinking about ordering in some of that for use right after I run a gallon through the engine on the regular oil. I can already see carbon build up but as ahicks said that't normal for a new engine.

Right I'm going back to bed, couldn't sleep. lol

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

With a new engine, soldering that hole closed is step 2, That happens right after step one, which is opening the box the engine comes in. There's no downside to doing this, and if it saves me a few flips after an extended storage period, I'm a happy camper. Only takes about 2 minutes, so that makes it a very worthwhile mod for me...

I would not cover the hole in the diaphragm cover, unless it were with a fitting to run the vent into the plane - which is something I've NEVER had to do. And yes, about everything I own is cowled. The reason I maybe have not run into that pressure differential deal is because test flights are ALWAYS done cowl off. When satisfied everything is OK and the engine is all dialed in, THEN it gets it's first ride with the cowl on. Problems that arise at that point can then be attributed to the cowl....

Re: the Amsoil recommendation of 50:1, my bet is the recommendation was made without the knowledge you were running a 20cc engine. Bigger engines (>30cc) handle 50:1 fine, but as they get smaller, the oil content must increase due to the smaller bearing areas involved. Additionally, the smaller engines use much less fuel than the bigger ones do, so they see less of it coming through the crankcase, so the rod and other bearings are not getting what they need - unless the oil ratio is increased.

Bottom line, makes no difference what oil you run, you need to use more oil in the smaller engines - which is the reason they suggest 32:1. Guys running multiple gassers, including bigger ones that run fine on 50:1, can run 32:1 in those as well, without hurting a thing or affecting the way they run. I'm running 10cc engines often as not any more, so I'm running 20:1 in everything I have - including my lawn equipment.... -Al

BTW, I ran snowmobiles for MANY years(over 40). When the last of those were sold, I had 2 cases of Amsoil quarts I kept. One for "UP" home, one for "DOWN" home. We'll be running Amsoil for the next few years anyway... at 20:1.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

ahicks lol @ step 2 after step one (open box haha)
well soldering that hole certainly helped me with not having to stick my finger down there and getting to flip start (not that I mind using the starter) and it starts much easier now too.
I've read about cowl off for tuning some where before but now I see you point it seems to have more merit. Guess I'd better get to the flying field early one day to do that.
Since its a small group of us (3) only two ppl are up at any given time with one spotter and most days its only 2 people leaving one person to spot.
Mostly we get in about 3 to 4 flights in for any given day because we get down there so late most weekends and the sun is already going down when we do. I hate it, but it can't be helped right now.

I was going to order up some red line but then realized I needed a few things off tower so I went ahead and took the koltz rc model oil instead (1 order, one box, one shipping easier for me to deal with at the moment)
after that bottle runs out I might get an other or just try the red line after all. I don't know. The manual does recommend synthetic at 32:1 if i remember clearly so likely that's what I'm going to be using.

All I know is I'd like a clean piston like I saw on that DA aircraft video lol (Mines already blackened at the top yuk)
my spark plug is grey in color kinda lite grey not tan I guess I need to lean out a bit more.

flygilmore

So, I have an XYZ 20 from VVRC that I am wanting to put into something. Couple questions....

Is the Revolver good at aerobatics or is it more of a "go fast" type plane? What about tumbles and clean snaps etc. how does it handle those? I really haven't paid much attention to it to really know.

What about blenders, flat spins knife edge spins etc.????

Thanks for the help!!

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

I see you're a Pro Bro, so I'm going to assume you know about CG placement and trimming, so you should be good to go. Though it's not a 3D plane, what it can do as far as aerobatics more about what you are capable of, within reason anyway. This isn't a 7lb airframe with a 2:1 power to weight ratio. It is a very good sport plane. If you check out the size of this string and compare that with anything else in it's class, you can see just how popular it is with those that have them. Many of us are on our second and third planes.... -Al

flygilmore

Yes, quite aware of all that.

I normally am a builder, but am wanting something relatively inexspensive and that's a great flyer. I've got plenty of XA (extreme aerobatics) and 3D type stuff so that's not an issue. I'll say tho, that I don't want something that will only go fast and make circuits across the sky either. All the vids I've seen thus far of the Revolver are just people boring holes in the sky......I want something that will do the stuff I mentioned in my prev. post. Note, that I am not asking a Revolver to do rollers and such.......I used to have a Dragon Lady 60/90 and it was a great sport plane that did really good tumbles and the other things I mentioned.

Wine Country Flyer

My Feedback: (5)

Just get the 70" Revolver. You won't regret it.

teckbot

My Feedback: (2)

+1

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

The XYZ20 should be great. The DLE 20 can hover the Revolver with a 17x6 prop.

I too haven't seen many videos of a Revolver doing anything other than light sport flying or ripping holes in the sky. In my experience, the Revolver is capable of being an "in betweener". It obviously is a precise sport flier and will track like it's on rails when the CG is set at the recommended location and even a little further back. I have my CG aft to the point where it's on the edge. Any further back and it's a handful to fly and is very sloppy (I know because it was there on the first flight).

My wife took some video that I think kinda shows that the Revolver can be more than just a sport plane (keep in mind I'm not Gabby Altuz or Joe Smith). I've got it to where it does pretty solid pop-tops for a plane with relatively small control surfaces and a pattern style wing. It will do a pretty nice Lomcevak too. My wife was not able to get good focused video of me doing any "flat" spins or blenders. In all honesty, the Rev will not do "FLAT" spins like an Edge 540. Upright or inverted. Well I guess it could, but you would have to have such an aft CG that it would fly like dung. My current deflection on ailerons and elevators is about 45 degrees. The rudder goes as far as it can without hitting the elevators.

Anyway, here's the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsSfcdFLWRk

Here is an old video of a guy flying his Rev as hard as anyone I've seen. Similar to the performance I've gotten out of mine except he likes to fly a lot faster than I do (some guys like racing around with a 15x8 on the DLE20, but I prefer the 17x6). He's got footage of a good blender just after 1 minute into the video. That's about as flat as you're going to see the revolver get.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OIJRtJZpUs

All in all, a pretty fun plane for the price...

flygilmore

I watched the vids and I really appreciate you linking them. On yours, I didn't see any tumbles but I did skip thru a bit. I am suprised that the Rev. was able to flatten out in the PopTop as well as it did. The blender in the second vid was not bad at all. I've got some thinking to do. Whatever I go with, I'll be running a 17x6 Xoar as well.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

Alright mine is fully built now and ready for the maiden. whew! That took forever!
I went full on paranoia though and changed out my aileron horns to these

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCVZP&P=ML

They were too tall for elevator so I'm waiting on these for the elevators.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAEJ6&P=7

I think that should work nicely.

just need a ride to lug that big old plane around and fly the darn thing finally heh.