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Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

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Old 04-03-2011, 06:49 PM
  #1
splais
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Default Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

So I have a special project that needs a reliable lipo battery. I have been using Chinese made Sky lipo batteries for some time now and never had a problem. But I have a question I have not been able to find an answer too.

Has anyone seen actual test results that show USA made batteries ( at nearly 3x the price of asian counterparts) are actually any better than the asian batteries in the areas of reliability and overall quality? thanks.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

By "USA made" do you mean actually made here?

More likely, "USA made" means they use cells that are made in China and then assemble them into packs here in the US.

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Old 04-03-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

whatever - I will be specific. Does anyone really know if a Thunder Power battery for $170 is any better than a Sky Lipo that only costs $40.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

Who knows, they could both very well come from the same source!!
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

gotta think the Thunder power is made in Korea.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

See it all depends what you would like to do with your setup. If you don't require the absolute power, then the cheapy stuff is fine. 50-50 Chance of getting a good pack. Thunderpower use to have Enerland cells, but Enerland doesn't make cells for the hobby anymore as of January this year. So no there is no point of spending big bucks with Thunderpower anymore. I use Acepow in my high current cars and use the same packs in my E-bike as well.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:28 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

I've spent a huge amount of money over the last few years on Lipo battery's and can tell you that they all are all pretty much the same.
If the manufacture or Company selling them is truthfull about what they are offering you. It's very easy to market and sell a undersize battery to the unknowleadable modelist
What I've found is the Battery support after the buy is the most important. Yes you will pay more for Thunder Power product but believe me they have the most truthfull marketing program and will back up what they sell.
If a Thunder Power battery fails it will be replaced by Thunder Power for 1/2 its original cost no questions asked !!
I just tossed (8) 5000 , 6S , Hobbyking Nanotech's as they would not cover them under there 30 day warranty program , as they were out of warranty by a few days..
So, if you want someone who cares about us and our Hobby Thunder Power in my book is a class act period !!
Its the same old deal , " Pay me now or pay me latter"
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:34 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

you pay for warranty for some packs. Capacity might not be far out on whats stated on packs, but C ratings are even on more expensive packs. Some 30C are 20C and some 20C are 30C. this goes throughout the lipo manufacturers.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

How many cycles a LiPo battery can handle without loosing to much poweris also important factor.
I have read that ThunderPower should be good for about 300 cycles, DesirePower V8 for about 200+ cycles just to give two examples.
Warranty is also important and ThunderPower seems to have the best warranty or crash exchange program for LiPo- or?

/Bo
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

Buy ? 4x zippy pcks for prince of TT packs. That way at least you will get as accumulative cycles and all eggs are not in same basket!
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

Here is how it works, Company "A' in China makes an order for 5,000 batteries from Battery Manufacturer "C" and states a price they will pay. While Company "B" in the US make an order from the same manufacturer for 2,000 batteries and states that the quality control must pass strict manufacturing specs.

So the Battery Manufacturing Company builds 7,000 batteries. All the batteries that don't pass the quality control specs of Company "B" get's sent to Company "A" at the much cheaper price.

You get what you pay for.

Frank
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

Thunder Power does sell the best batteries but it usually doesn't pencil out because they are SO expensive.
A pack that costs 3 times as much and will last twice as long just doesn't make good sense to me.

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:25 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

my Turnigy packs last around 200-250 cycles. I've owned about 30 packs, and have yet to recieve a bad one. They aren't 'b' grade in any way.

if you are going to pull high amps, go for the 30 or 40C, as they will run cooler and last longer. 20c zippys wear out after about 100 cycles when run near their max rating, especially in a hot australian summer.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

i have used thunder power batteries lipos that is they may cost more i charge them at there ratings mah and cell voltages never had a problem
does not pay to use cheap batteries when your plane is in the air theres to much time and money in the air thats my opinion.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries


Quote:
ORIGINAL: SuchIsLife

my Turnigy packs last around 200-250 cycles. I've owned about 30 packs, and have yet to recieve a bad one. They aren't 'b' grade in any way.
if you are going to pull high amps, go for the 30 or 40C, as they will run cooler and last longer. 20c zippys wear out after about 100 cycles when run near their max rating, especially in a hot australian summer.

I would stay away from the HK batterys. The are a second rate battery. With the advertisement and the hiring of people to represent their products in the forums and paying them for praising a poor product it's hard to trust when you are getting good reliable information or information that someone is getting paid to give.

It's a proven fact that HK pays people $100 per month to promote their products in the forums. Buyer Beware.

Frank

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Old 10-10-2012, 04:44 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

really?
We have F3A models and use the "inexpensive" 5 cell 5000 ma packs (10cell setup.)
We have friends who are using Thunderpower exclusively - but in actual camparison flying- the cheapies work every bit as well-and we do check power consumed and recharge capacities
The TP also puff more easily - -if you push em hard. I also bought some TP cells in larger sizes to compare - -I see no advantage to using em tho years back -they were better.
There are a number of Chinese packs on the market and I have yet to run into any of em which are a problem.
Problem is typically the user .
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:20 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

I agree- but we could have been paid to say that!!!
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

Hi,

ThunderPower write on their homepagethat their G6 LiPo is good for up to 600+ cycles.
600+ cycles is not bad and that is what one would pay forexcept the up to 12C charge capabilities (with ThunderPower approved charger and balancer combination).
I do not think I have seen any other company that sell LiPo has told such high cycle figure in an ad or on homepage?

I would be interested to know what LiPo brand one really can trust that You get quality controlled LiPo and whatcompanies has specific cycles advertised that one could be reasonably sure one would achieve (asuming the LiPo is taken care of and used within specified C etc).

- DesirePower say on their hompage that their V8 LiPo is capable of "cycle up to 200+under proper usage".
Source: http://www.desire-battery.com/ (the big flash info window nr 3)

- ThunderPower G6 LiPo"up to an incredible 600+ cycles".
Source: http://thunderpowerrc.com/ (on start page)

- Hyperion G3 EX 45C LiPo "Some users have reported as many as 500 strong cycles so far, and still going strong".
Source: http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/g3lipo/

The big question is also how many cycles a LiPo will be able to perform good discharge power, my DesirePower V8 35C 6 cell 5200 mAh latsed about 200 cycles with good performance but efter that they have swollen and do not perform as good they used to do.

Please fill in what You know about other brands regarding advertised cycles.

/Bo
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:22 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

I do not know cycle numbers but I have something to add. I live and fly in a remote area. For the price of one TP battery I can take say 10 turnigy lipos. Each pack can then last say 10 times as less cycles and still cost the same. The advantage is I can get ten flights without charging and in the event of a crash all ones eggs (lipos) are not in the same basket (plane!!)

I have no allegiance and hope this is constructive and not inflammatory- this hobby allows us to make our own decisions- unless you burn your neighbours house down or crash in to someone etc its all good!!!
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:51 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

I like the idea that the vendor publishes the #cycles. If it can be independently verified, it will be great.

The important number is the #cycles that is good for competition.

If one has multiple packs on hand, some of them can be reserved for competition and the rest for practice.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

Hello all.

Question about something that has been bothering me the last couple of days. (Hope this is the right place to ask this)? I run a hyperion cx G3 lipo battery with the rating of: 7.4v 3300mah 25c in my 1/10 truck and I recently purchase an inexpensive lipo battery on ebay that supposed to have the rating of: 7.4v 3400mah 50c (continous) - 90c (max)

Now unless I am not quite understanding lipo batteries, Ishould notice a difference between the 2 batteries right? the 50c-90c lipo should have much more "punch" right? However it actually seems like my original lipo (25c) gives off a bit more punch. One other thing I was wondering is: if both batteries specs are true as to what the manufacture states, is it even possible that both batteries are the exact same size.

Thanks in advance for you info guys. Appreciate it...
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

No, you shouldn't necessarily expect more power from a higher "C" rated battery. IMO, "C" ratings aren't really worth much. They can come in handy when comparing batteries from the same brand, but across brands there is no standard for what the ratings mean. It is supposedly the highest discharge rate that the battery can handle without being damaged. It's not about how many amps or volts you'll get at a lower discharge rate (no one actually runs their batteries at even 20C continuously) but rather how hard the battery can be pushed in testing before its lifespan is significantly reduced. But even that is a pretty vague definition, right? What matters for getting more punch out of your car or plane is the internal resistance of the battery and to a lesser extent, the weight of the battery (lighter vehicle accelerates better).

On the original topic, I'm too cheap to have ever bought the higher end batteries but I have noticed a significant difference between the low end and mid-grade batteries. The first set of lipos I ever bought were the 20c Zippys to run in my Stryker. I liked them fine and could get 10 minute flights and still have about 25% of the charge left. I'd say I got 30-40 cycles out of them before the internal resistance started to rise which reduced my motor RPM to the point that it got hard to takeoff without a big headwind. 1 of the 4 that I ordered was DOA and HK wouldn't replace it unless I shipped it back to them. But for $8 each plus shipping I spent less than half of what a Thunder Power battery would have cost at the time and had 3 usable batteries so I was happy with it. I replaced them with $20 each Power Wing batteries of the same capacity and "C" rating. I could tell an immediate difference in power and after again roughly 30-40 cycles between my Stryker and 450 helicopter I can't tell any difference in the flight characteristics. So I'd say going up to at least the mid grade packs is a good investment, and those who fly a lot and push their batteries hard probably will benefit from the higher end stuff.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:23 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

The "C" rating is the batteries discharge rate. Meaning the 50C battery can stand more amp draw from the motor than the 25C battery. That does not necessarily relate to more "punch" as you put it. Your motor draws X amount of amps when it is running. If your motor draws less amps than the smaller battery is rated for then the larger battery will not make any difference. The motor always draws the same amount.

In other words your motor "requests" X amount of amps from the battery.

For example. Lets say your motor needs 20 amps to run. It will draw 20 amps from the battery. If your 25C battery can supply 20 amps your OK. If you connect your 50C battery, the motor is still only going to "Request" 20 amps.

Kind of like going to the bank to draw out $20.00 cause thats all you need. If you have $20.00 in your account your good. But, if you have $50.00 in your account, you are still only going to take out $20.00 cause thats all you need.

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Old 02-19-2013, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

There's actually a bit more to it than that. Few of us run our batteries at more than 10c aside from just small bursts. A 10c constant discharge will give you 6 minutes of flight time before you reach the low voltage cutoff, so very few of us would push our systems that hard. So truthfully, "C" ratings don't mean much. What they can indicate is better internal resistance (not always though) which means the battery can maintain voltage better under load and not heat up as quickly. That will translate to more power and better battery life. There are numerous tests that have been done to establish what various batteries do under real world and simulated flight conditions, and if you read up on a few of them you'll find that the internal resistance value (which few manufacturers report) is the real magic number. Under the same load, batteries from various manufacturers can vary significantly in the actual power they produce, with lower C rated packs from a good manufacturer outperforming higher C rated packs from another.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:17 PM
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Default RE: Expensive US made vs Chinese Batteries

It depends on the motor and the application. For 2m pattern, a 20c pack is minimal.

Packs with higher discharge rate brings the benefit of releasing the current (e.g. 80a) at the right time.
Some of the low end packs just cannot do it, especially several minutes into the flight.
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