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# Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

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Old 06-04-2012, 05:24 AM
  #51
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Hello Geeter
No it was not my disaster it someone else,I just felt at the time as my original thread was all about lipo safety I just wanted to highlight this particular disaster
but some folk did not like the fact I did this (because I had 2 x similar threads) wont be doing that again.

It really was refreshing to read your reply....as I think some folk are getting a bit hacked off with me because I do not like lipos..I am not here to change minds or convert..I am just here trying to learn.and asking questions...

I hope eventually there will be safer/better technology than lipo`s as it stands now.

all the best Steve
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

SAFETY IS NO ACCIDENT. My sympathy to the gentleman who lost all his stuff, fire sucks, been there done that. That said,treat every gun as if it were loaded, Don't stand in front of a running propeller. Wear your seat belt, DON'TLEAVEYOUR LIPOS CHARGING OR DISCHARGINGBY THEMSELVES. Think about this; they are shipping and storing lipos by the thousands if not millions all over the world. If this problem ( fire) were such a hugh problem do you think they would continue to make them or ship them? Like using gasoline, there is a wrong way and a right way to handle them. I still see guys at the field standing in front of their planes running their engines at full bore reaching over the prop to tuneyou can't legislate brains. I will be the first to admit that I have gotten lax sometimes with my charging habits and taken some risks with my lipos. But I will count myself lucky and learn from others misfortune and clean up my act.Our time would be better spent on educating ourselves on the proper care, use, and storage of lipo's than trading barbs against each other and spreadingmisinformation. Thanks, for all the information.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:18 AM
  #53
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcheli1

Hi Gerry
I thank you for your reply ..really appreciate it but you are nothte first to compare laptops & Mobile phones and I am a nivice but I am told there is little comparison between the above and the lipos in RC? the above are far more stable..as to the rest well you have repeated what many have said re looking after lipos and as there is not alternative batteries up to the job Lipo`s it will have to be

but I still hope they improve or something better is developed

all the best Steve[img][/img]

At the beginning, there were a lot of lipo related problems, but those i heard of were due to misuse or plain not understanding the principles. So, bad things happened. I forgot once to unplug the battery from the controller (just turned off the radio) And sure enough the battery died an early dead because it discharged to the point of "rigor mortis".

Not the smartest tool in the shed, months later I did the same thing again... Lesson learned, all my models now have a kill switch. I plug in the kill swith before taking off, and pull the kill switch immediately after landing. This way, if I forget a battery in the model, no harm done. Now I also check for the batteries being off the models when I load the models into the car at the field. You work out your own routine. The kill switch is a must when you use 20" props like I do. That is quite a meat slicer...

Gerry

Personal electronics

Li-poly batteries are also gaining ground in PDAs and laptop computers, such as Apple's MacBook family, Amazon's Kindle, Lenovo's Thinkpad X300 and Ultrabay Batteries, the OQO series of palmtops, the HP Mini and Dell products featuring D-bay batteries. Very small GPS tracking units such as Garmin's GTU-10 rely on li-poly batteries for days or even weeks of autonomous operation between recharges. Li-poly batteries are also used in small digital music devices such as iPods, Zunes, and other MP3 players and the Apple iPhone and iPad, as well as gaming equipment like Sony's PlayStation 3 wireless controllers. They are desirable in applications where small form factors and energy density outweigh cost considerations.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:21 AM
  #54
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Nobody is getting hacked off bud, there is lots of info and some good questions brought up just in this one thread than maybe anywhere else.
Maybe some manufacturer should look into developing a more permanent, safe charging/storage boxes than the current portable lipo sacks we use.
some makers have built a new lipo bag not sack recently from what I've come across on the net.
A fire proof safe Is not very fire proof if the door is open or holes drilled though to slide the cables.

But this is RC and a lot of initiative comes from making something work that will help others and yourself, we need to make and try.
Instead of drilling holes for cables leaving an open airway for flames, make a connector fitted to the side, It wont work for security safes, but for single skin metal cases it would work, just connect the lipo to the connector on inside close the door and connect charger to connector on outside.

4mm male banana plugs fitted on case, the lipo connector to female banana connector inside.
Notice use female, If male is used, it could touch the metal case and short the lipo.
On the charger you would have to solder to the connector and unplug the other end from the charger.

We all want you and everyone to be safe, but for the time being we have to wait patiently, for a safer lipo equivalent battery.
the chances of something happening are higher the more you don't follow the lipo law.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:30 AM
  #55
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcheli1

Don’ts [img][/img]

• Do not use a charger that is not specifically designed to charge Lithium Polymer cells.
• Do not leave cells un-attended when charging. You should always remain close to the charging cells to
monitor the charging process and react to potential problems should they occur.
• Do not charge LiPo batteries in the model.
• Do not charge LiPo batteries in a vehicle or in the engine compartment of a vehicle.
• Do not carry LiPo batteries in your pocket. They have been known to short against coins and keys and cause
fires.
• Do not puncture the cells.
• Do not place LiPo batteries in a fire.
• Do not short the wires of your LiPo cells/battery. This is very dangerous and can cause a fire or even an
explosion. If you accidentally short the wires of your LiPo cells/battery, either cover it in sand, or put it in a
non-conductive container and place it outside away from all flammable objects for at least 30 minutes.
• In the event of a crash, remove battery(s) and place it/them in a safe open area away from any combustible
material for approximately 30 minutes. On no account should you place it in a vehicle for at least 30 minutes
as a delayed chemical re-action can occur causing a fire.
• Do not ‘Top up’ your cells. Even if you charged them up to 1 year ago. LiPo cells loose less then 1% of their
capacity per month. Just use them and then re-charge them as normal.
Over-charging LiPo batteries will damage them and possibly cause a fire.
• Do not charge cells that have been stored in cold conditions (below 10ºC/50ºF), let them warm up (above
(10ºC/50ºF), for a minimum of 30 minutes.
• You risk an explosion if you attempt to use cells that have been stored at or below 0ºC (32ºF), Warm them
first for at least 60 minutes above 10ºC (50ºF) before charging or discharging.
• Do not store your cells for extended periods of time (more then 1 hour) in a hot place (i.e. in your car on a hot
day) as this may cause them to catch fire of even explode.
• Do not ingest contents of LiPo cells. If you do accidentally swallow the contents of LiPo cells seek medical
attention immediately.
• Do not charge hot cells. Warm cells are OK, let hot cells cool before charging.
• Do not allow charging to continue above 4.25V per cell. This is VERY important as a fire could result.
• Do not discharge you LiPo cells below 3.00V per cell (e.g. 9.00V for a 3S pack) as this will damage the cells
and dramatically reduce the life of your cells. If you do accidentally discharge them below 3.00V per cell,
leave them for 30 minutes and if the voltage recovers to over 3.30V per cell then they should be OK to use
them again. If they do not recover to at least 3.00V per cell then I’m afraid you have damaged them and they
should be disposed of (Please see below as the correct method of disposal).
• Do not charge dissimilar or un-matched packs in series or parallel with any difference in cell type, cell
capacity, manufacturer, age, pack capacity or charge state (+/- 0.03V per cell). If in any doubt, charge them
separately.
• Do not charge any pack containing one or more damaged or swollen/puffed cell as there is a high risk of a
fire.


Lifes to short for all this and Lipos need to be improved very much

cheers Steve
Excellent list Steve. Have been using lipos for years with no problems, just have to pay attention!
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:34 AM
  #56
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Hello Trax de max & gerkonig
I must apologise for my attitude in certain replies I have made...I have almost become transfixed on all this and fixed focused to a point I totally misread an earlier reply by blhollo2 about as everyone keeps saying take care follow the rules and things should be fine,so sorry about that
I accept what you are saying and i hope it is not to long before they improve the lipo technology
(sorry can`t turn off the bold again)
Gerry I thank you also for sharing own personal experiences with lip`s and learning lessons...

all the very best Steve

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Old 06-04-2012, 06:39 AM
  #57
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

raptureboy Hi again & also thanks to radical departure
both very good replies....don`t think anyone as really spread much in the way of disimformation in this thread I could be wrong of course..I think overhaul it`s being a totally interesting and absorbing debate


all the best Steve
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:01 AM
  #58
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcheli1

[b]Don’ts [img][/img]

Do not ‘Top up’ your cells. Even if you charged them up to 1 year ago. LiPo cells loose less then 1% of their
capacity per month. Just use them and then re-charge them as normal.
Over-charging LiPo batteries will damage them and possibly cause a fire.


cheers Steve
Where did you find this information????
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:06 AM
  #59
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Hello Again
I am not totally sure but think it could have being www.rcmodelreviews.com page,I amybe wrong but I will find it again

best wishes Steve

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Old 06-04-2012, 07:38 AM
  #60
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: t9dragon


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcheli1

[b]Don’ts [img][/img]

Do not ‘Top up’ your cells. Even if you charged them up to 1 year ago. LiPo cells loose less then 1% of their
capacity per month. Just use them and then re-charge them as normal.
Over-charging LiPo batteries will damage them and possibly cause a fire.


cheers Steve
Where did you find this information????
Again, this is a hadrware issue. I could not over-charge my batteries even if I wanted to. Why? My charger knows when it is enough, and If I donot react, it will stop charging by itseld (and this is the very arcaic, and old Astro Lipo charge... The better and newer charges I have been looking at do the same...

By the same token, if I have a battery, and I am not sure it is charged, I can connect it to the charger, and it will refuse to charge it on the grounds that it is charged. I have to be careful with this, because if it detects the battery IS charged the little nasty ******* will start discharging it w/o asking...

Gerry


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Old 06-04-2012, 09:12 AM
  #61
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Quote:
I think i have read maybe about 4 people where lios have combusted  
Then you don't read much.    We've had three incidents at our club alone that I know about, one where a lipo being balance-charged in a guys trailer went up. He was right there, was able to grab the battery and charger and hurl them clear. Trailer was a little scorched.

It's like the olde saying: 'There's them that have, and them that will.'  I haven't had a nitro engine or tank combust, and do use a few lipos but charge and store in an old outdoor grill.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:24 AM
  #62
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Hi Gerry
Good reply
I am hoping to buy a powerlab charger..so at least it will help a lot in the old lipo routine

best wishes Steve
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:02 AM
  #63
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: eddieC

Quote:
I think i have read maybe about 4 people where lios have combusted
Then you don't read much. We've had three incidents at our club alone that I know about, one where a lipo being balance-charged in a guys trailer went up. He was right there, was able to grab the battery and charger and hurl them clear. Trailer was a little scorched.

It's like the olde saying: 'There's them that have, and them that will.' I haven't had a nitro engine or tank combust, and do use a few lipos but charge and store in an old outdoor grill.
yea i missed a word out "spontaneous" If you look at everyone elses misfortunes it comes with the words "while charging", A charger can only do what it is programmed to do. Yes there are some cheaper chargers that has larger tolerances to what the voltage of the lipos should be and the charger reads something else.
I have made mistakes while charging, thats why i check once,check twice and check three times. Using different mah lipos i have forgot to change the capacity on the charger a few times thats why i check three times.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:32 AM
  #64
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

I fly electrics ,nitro and smaller gas engines.the fact that lipo fires happen only re-inforces the idea that you have to excercise caution using them.the poor guys big mistake was he left the batteries unattended and charged them on a plastic surface.none of us knows exactly why the fire happened.human error??? maybe..Is that a reason to abandon electric planes not by a long shot..gas and nitro have there own issues as well.I shake my head everytime I see a guy leaning over his 2 stroke starting it by hand no less..and big 50 cc motors being turned with a barehand is senseless under any situation.I have seen what a prop does to a persons hand.our hobby is safe when everyone plays smart and takes precautions to ensure safety both to others and himself.fires dont start for no reason.something wasnt done right and thats human error but we always always try to eliminate the potential for injury and fire to the extent possible.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:44 AM
  #65
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Well said.
Full stop?
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:39 PM
  #66
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

So what are the pitfalls with using LIFE batteries? Where is the best place to buy them and what is the best charger for them?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

I took a look at my lipos after reading this and two of them were swollen, one soft pack and a hard pack. The bad part is that they are brand new, I mean Ive had them for months but they werent used where as the three that are a year old and well used are fine.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #68
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Bloke at my flying field was out flying while charging his other plane (4 cell, ni-mh, RX pack) in the pits.

I noticed smoke coming from his charger, and ripped over there pulling every wire I could find.

For whatever reason the charger decided to fail and either short the battery or put the full 12 volts on it, but whatever it did, it did it fast, silently and the wiring hot got enough to melt the insulation off and the pack got hot enough to start melting the epp foam it was in. All while he was bisfully unaware flying his plane.

I have no doubt if it was a Li-po he would have lost his plane.

I will admit though, I'm more than a bit complacent whan it comes to battery charging.

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Old 06-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #69
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Hey here is a safe way to store Lipos...in a metal surplus Ammo can!! its cheap,Affordable and fire proof and will contain an lipo fire and explosion...I just tested this and it WORKS!!!!!! I will try and post a youtube video of this but it works. Be safe, use common sence (if there is such a thing) and follow the simple rules of lipo safe handling and don't get complacent. thread over
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

GerKonig,, almost without exception, consumer electronics are NOT using lipos.... They are using lithium ion batteries. There is a huge difference.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:07 PM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Dubd
There are no adequate words of expressing my sympathy ,for what must have being a truly horrifying experience.
I hope eventually you and your family recover from it.

This is what this and my other thread have being all about,the simple fact that LIPOS are not to be trusted even when you look after them like a UXB.

I have now persoanlly in just a few days read several horrific stories of folks house`s burning down or badly damaged...and before everyone kicks off.
can you not see the point here,it should not be this way :SAFES/SAND/AMMO BOXES/COOKING RANGES/ and so on.
I don`t need convincing LIPOS are the best at the moment for the main power supplies to rc

anyway I am very sorry for anyone who as to go through this

best wishes to you and your family

Steve
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:14 PM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

rcheli, thanks. It's been a tough year.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:00 AM
  #73
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

wow. sorry to hear about your loss. glad no one was injured. hope you get back all your funds return via insurance.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:52 AM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dubd

GerKonig,, almost without exception, consumer electronics are NOT using lipos.... They are using lithium ion batteries. There is a huge difference.

I would not be surprised. The did have a lot of problems in the past.

I checked the only thing I have handy (Nikon D5100) and yes, confirmed it is a li-ion battery powering it. The older cameras, and the Dell that was recalled time ago, I do not know.


Gerry
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:07 AM
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Default RE: # Everyone-Should Read The following L-I-P-O DISASTER!!!

Even Li-Ion's have had issues. Many years ago, there was a case where a teen, walking in a mall with her cellphone in a back pocket, had her ***** burned when the battery malfunctioned. I doubt she was charging at the time. 

There was the case of UPS losing one of their planes to a fire traced to new laptops being shipped. That led to the Dell recall.
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