N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

This may sound like another nebulous "Which Charger Is Best" question, but actually, I have a good idea of what features I want.... I just need a few recommendations about which chargers to look into.

I'd like to charge up to 6 LiPo's as well as NiCads, and be able to charge several packs at the same time.

I'd like to charge the LiPo packs by their individual cells, i.e., from the balancing plug and, if possible, I'd like to have some kind of Computer interface so that I could monitor the individual cells as they charge or discharge. A temperature probe would be a nice option, but not necessary.

Which chargers (if any) are out there which could fill the bill for these? I don't have megabucks to spend, but I don't want a bargain basement charger either. I've got one and I don't trust it.

Suggestions??? Thanks in advance,

Bob

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Charging large lipos only through the balance port isn't a good idea.

The Hyperions monitor individual cells but charge through the main port. I have a Duo 610 that charges 2 packs at once.

If I were getting a new charger right now though it would be the new 4 port Hitec.

guver

My Feedback: (325)

It's possible to modify the balance wires to fool any charger into thinking the main lead is hooked up if you're just set against not using the main lead. This will also necessitate putting all the charge thru the outer two pins of the balance plug and may be limited to around 2 amps or so. I suppose getting 3 dual chargers or a pair of quads may be what you want. Thi special adapter is a bad idea and would also allow individual cell monitoring and many chargers do indeed have the PC interface. If you want true individual cell charging then ther was an old DYN charger that did it. I think that was the name of it. dyn or something like that , but it only went up to 4 cells .

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

I thought that charging individual cells was the 'new' method of charging. Why isn't this a good idea? I hadn't heard that.

I'll look into the Hitec. I see that there are two models. Which one were you referring to?

Thanks for the input. Any other suggestions???

Bob

guver

My Feedback: (325)

The tendancy for cells in series is to stay balanced so we can get away with doing it in a hurry by simply using the two (already included) outer leads. Many chargers and users then simply use tiny wires for monitoring and slightly adjusting the levels of the inner cells in a pack.

Doing individual cells is fine , but may cost more because you really need 1 charger per cell. The pack also has to either be very small or have large leads TO EVERY CELL.

Look into the FMA chargers , I think they may be the ticket for you to do a nice job. Depending upon what packs you have and which charger you have there may not be anything wrong with your current set-up. What were the specs to your lipo packs? Was that 6 packs? or multiple 6s packs? How big are these packs and how fast do you desire to charge? These are the questions that may determine a good set-up for you.

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks, Guver. I understand about balancing.

Regarding the Hitec charger, can anyone tell me the difference between the Hitec X4 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXAEGM&P=ML and the Thunder T6 http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-t6-multi-charger.html. The only difference appears to be the faceplate decal. Also, does that Hitec have ports (and/or does it include) a thermocouple?

I'd given up on FMA. They have great products but I think that they're a bit pricey for what you get. Just my opinion.

Thanks,

Bob

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Its the same charger (or a knock off of the hitec, whatever) and it has 4 ports and optional thermocouples.

Not that balance tap charging is bad, just that its slow with bigger cells.

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for that clarification, Barracuda

I hope that everyone is gettting some good Christmas presents. I got a Katana 50 and a set of Dave Platt DVD's (Watts Up - all 3 disks)

Bob

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I have been monitoring the cells in my packs with the EOS Sentry http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/sentry/default.htm after charging via the power connection and the balance plug. I have found there is no discernable difference at the end of the charging cycle no matter which method is used. I have made up Y harnesses and monitored the individual cells during charge and discharge cycles to see if either charging method made any difference. Nothing I could detect with the equipment I had on hand which is what most of us will be using. I imagine there are a few with access to infinite test equipment who might beg to differ but for most of us we will never notice the difference.

The biggest difference was the charge time. Since most of the wires are a light gauge on the balance jack most battery manufacturers I contacted recommended no more than 2 amps with most advising 1.5 amp max. This limits the size of the battery if you want to charge even at C1.

Everything I have read indicates Lipo’s actually are more compatible to rough or fast charging rather than slow or trickle charging. Some batteries can be fast charged up to 12 C in 5 minutes but to do this you will have to use the power leads as the balance wires could not handle the amps.

Any charger can be configured to parallel charge identical packs there is lots of information on the web site on how you can build the wiring harnesses to do this. For Christmas Santa brought me a Cellpro Power 8 at 1344 watts with a parallel charge board for up to 6 battery packs at 8S each. Of course I will need a 24 volt 40 amp power supply to make this work so I have two 12 volt 47 amp server power supplies in series and will run this off my generator.

All of this info is available on line and there are even suppliers who are selling this stuff on line at very reasonable prices. I got tired of trying to run 4 to 6 chargers to keep up with my needs at times so I am hoping this new set up will simplify things.

When buying a charger be careful to understand what you are actually getting as far as usable output. For instance I have a Hyperion EOS 0606i and if you look at the specs http://www.hyperion-world.com/produc...ct/HP-EOS0606i they state will charge 6S 6amp max. It will not charge a 5S 5000 mah battery any higher than 2.5 amps or 2500 mah, less than it’s C1. The wattage and max input voltage is what you want to pay attention to and if it’s a multi port charger total wattage is much different than wattage per charge port.

Take for instance the Hyperion charger above with a rating of 6amp at 50 watts which is the max output. Using voltage (V), current in amps (A) and power in Watts (W) arrange them in a triangle see the picture below.


From this are the formulas Watts = Volts X Amps
Volts = Watts/Amps
Amps = Watts/Volts

From this we see that this charger is limited to a 50 watt output. A 5S packs voltage is 18.5 volts. Using the last formula we can calculate the maximum amps this charger will charge this pack at.

A=50 watts/18.5 volts or 2.7 amps which seems to default to 2500 mah charge rate when it should be 5000 mah for at least C1

You have to be careful to look at both sides of the charger. If your input is less than what the charger will pull it can damage the power input device. The Powerlab has the ability to limit the draw it will put on your input devices.

I am not an electrician or electronics expert but I have tried to understand through reading and asking questions from knowledgeable people I hope I have it right I know it’s what has been working for me. Being an old guy stirring the grey mater with stuff I haven’t used for many years is a real challenge. So far I haven’t fried anything including me. If I have something wrong please feel free to correct me. Keep it constructive and simple so we all can learn please.

Thunderpower TP-1010C and TP-210V Balancer
Thunderpower TP-610C
Hyperion 0606i
Turnigy Accucell 6

Different prices a few different features all worked flawlessly as designed and advertised

Dennis

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

With all due respect, guys, I don't need an education on electrical theory. I do this kind of stuff for a living. You could use the same triangle, by the way, for the equation E = I x R.

For the sake of discussion, I'm only looking for suggestions on Charger models that might fit my ideas on what chargers might be be the most useful ones to look into for my purposes.

Any other suggestions???

Thanks for the Thunder Power and Hyperion models, Propworn. I'll look into those right now.

Bob

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

From your posts I had no idea what your experience entailed. You never mentioned what capacity or cell count you were looking to charge. Besides having a limited budget the only two other requirements seemed to be a computer interface and charging through the balance plug. Charging through the balance plug is fine for smaller capacity batteries but not practical for larger ones. Of course you already know this as you have already made mention. This led me to believe you might be in the same boat I was when I first started with electrics thus a simplistic explanation I found helpful at the time. Perhaps in the future a little in the way of your expertise might avoid these incorrect assumptions. I noticed you excluded the Turnigy Accucell 6. Many in the club have beat this little inexpensive charger up and found it performs just as well as any of the others I have.

Dennis

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks, Dennis... I have the Turnigy Accucell 6 and I don't have a lot of confidence in it for the LiPo's. I only use it for NiCads now.

Bob

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

If I may ask what has caused your concern with the Turnigy? I would like to know as many in our club are using this unit. If there is concern it would be nice to warn them.

Dennis

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

It kept charging my LiPo well over its cutoff limit

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I'm going let them know to keep an eye on these chargers and at the same time going to ask if anyone else has had this happen. Thanks

Dennis

Goldenduff

The charger may not be faulty. When balance charging it discharges and charges so more mah than the pack is stated at can be displayed. Over charging much more than 4.2v per cell is a problem though.

dryverman

My Feedback: (2)

The Hitec X4 AC Plus is a decent unit...has an internal power supply, there's a 30 minute tutorial
on YouTube. Just got one for Christmas, so I'm no expert on the particulars...

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks... I was looking at that but I don't need the AC option. I was looking at it's little brother, the DC-only version of the X4 for about $100 less. I'm a little skeptical about the clone, the THunder T-6. I wonder if it has the same programming, etc. But it has inputs for two thermocouples and PC interface. I'd like to see that.

Thanks, and let us know what you find out about your new X4

Bob

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

No one here seems to have had any problems with over charging with the Turnigy chargers. Every one claims they are satisfied with the less expensive chargers. Several have had instances where the charger seems to go on for longer than normal but it never overcharged or damaged the pack. Charge current at the time was very low as if final balancing was taking place. Noted this was mainly with new packs so it may have been part of the way the packs season during the first several charges. Who can say for sure? Thanks for the heads up.

Dennis

Crossfade

My Feedback: (1)

This will be my next setup as for as a charger goes.

I love all the CellPro Products, Including there Batteries.

Have a look, This combo will allow safe parallel charging of up to six packs 2s - 6s

http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/...PA-XH_Combo_32

trax de max

The old turnigy accucell 6 chargers had issues of over charging just needed to replace a few resistors, But i think the newer ones work ok.
But you get what you pay for. After all, this is the thing that causes the fires.
The FMA is worth the extra money I have the PL8 and MPA board, hooked up to laptop. AWESOME.
But there is/ or coming, a new beast in town. [link=http://www.progressiverc.com/icharger-4010duo.html]The iCharger 4010 Duo[/link]

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I just got the Powerlab 8 with parallel board to charge up to six 8S packs at a time for Christmas. To get the most from this charger I am running two 12 volt 47 amp server power supplies in series for 24 volts and 47 amp. I will be using a smaller portable generator for base power what the heck would you have to use to power that thing. Looks like you will have to power the thing with 50 volts and 65 amp to get the max from it. Wonder what a dc power source will cost for this one. A quick look and I couldn’t even find one. A 48 volt 48 amp was well over $400. I can see guys modifying generators to pump out this kind of DC power for direct connection to the charger. You screw up with that kind of juice it just might alter your pleasant personality. HE HE HE!!!!

Dennis

trax de max

server power supplies.
I use 2 playststion 3 power supplies for the pl8.
Buying a purpose built supply is just an expensive part that doesn't need to be.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

What is the output on those supplies? I did much the same with some high power server supplies I picked up cheap. Couldn't find anything that would provide near 60 amp at 50 volts cheap. I read somewhere that they were going to try and power it with 4 65amp server supplies in series for something in the range of 50 to 56 volts and 65 amp.

Dennis

trax de max

4 of these [link=https://www.serversupply.com/DELL/POWER%20SUPPLY/SERVER%20POWER%20SUPPLY/900%20WATT/7000245-0000.htm]dell [/link] this one is 72A 12V there is cheaper ones about, it's just finding them before people buy them up.

My sony's are 12V 23.5A the next one up is 12V 32.5A