Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
#51
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
I see the appeal of just charging when you get to the field but I have never had to stop flying because my packs needed a recharge. You still have to recharge the "first" battery and I want some hard numbers on my packs, not just blinking lights. Good discussion though.
Bob
Bob
#52
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Charger
Sideshow, we charge while setting up and fly for the day without having to recharge all day and maybe the next day too. I check my batteries before EVERY flight with a volt meter. Its just a way to eliminate the spider web in the garage the night before. For me it makes for more flying and building time and less clutter.
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Bob
Don't miss the point Bob,
He just said he doesn't have to fuss with charging 15 hours or more at night or whenever.
He charges on the way to the field...or when he is assembling his plane. It good for the day, unless one wants to fly some more............Its that simple.......
5
When you get your new battery out of the box....Charge it...15 hours, or whatever.....and forget it.
Down time (weather, etc) check your cycle.....or every time you want....
He just said he doesn't have to fuss with charging 15 hours or more at night or whenever.
He charges on the way to the field...or when he is assembling his plane. It good for the day, unless one wants to fly some more............Its that simple.......
5
When you get your new battery out of the box....Charge it...15 hours, or whatever.....and forget it.
Down time (weather, etc) check your cycle.....or every time you want....
#56
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Sirius
Bob,
Here is another prospective.
I use 3 Battery packs in my airplane. They are 1700ma each.
I use all digital servos in this airplane. As a result I can get no more then two fifteen and one 10 minute flight on a full overnight charge on my Alpha 4.
After two flights I charge all 3 packs for 20 minutes total on my Sirius field charger, and I am ready for another two 15 min flights again.
So as you can see Bob It is important for people who fly larger airplanes with high draw servos.
Stan
Here is another prospective.
I use 3 Battery packs in my airplane. They are 1700ma each.
I use all digital servos in this airplane. As a result I can get no more then two fifteen and one 10 minute flight on a full overnight charge on my Alpha 4.
After two flights I charge all 3 packs for 20 minutes total on my Sirius field charger, and I am ready for another two 15 min flights again.
So as you can see Bob It is important for people who fly larger airplanes with high draw servos.
Stan
#57
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Sirius Chargers
Well I'm going to enter the fracus, albeit a bit late....
Seems like all the basics have been covered at least once...
There is a difference in the type of charge offered by at least the Victor and Sirius units. The manufacturer ascerts that the pulse/burpe charge cycle conditions the cells. This is not new technology. Just not used often. The manufacturer also ascerts that you can charge the cells without benefit of memory concerns, meaning no harm is done in repeaking the cells, regardless of discharge state/level...
I have the following chargers:
Victor Egineering Super HiQ II, charge-discharge-cycle.
Hobbico Accu-Cycle Plus, charge-discharge-cycle
Sirius Pro-edition dual RX-TX charger
Sirius Limited edition "LE" dual RX charger.
Sirius Super Tester, battery discharge-tester.
Simprop Electronics Intelli-Control, charge-discharge-cycle.
[This is the same unit that is relabled as FMA's Super-Nova, and others]
I use the Sirius equiment routinely prior to actually flying, this eleviates any need to to even think about it, until I'm actually on the way to the field, simple and safe...
I perform scheduled interval cycling and comparison's to known data using the Super Tester, Victor, Intelli-Control or Accu-Cycle.
Without a doubt the simplest and safest equipment is the Sirius Chargers and Super Tester, IMO...
What really counts with all this battery testing, i.e; cycling/grading/use is the "known" discharge abilty of a given battery pack as compared to a previously graded/tested figure... Nothing more, nothing less...
We extrapolate performance figures, into unrealistic safety percentages and weigh this against the all mighty dollar... Go figure...
Seems like all the basics have been covered at least once...
There is a difference in the type of charge offered by at least the Victor and Sirius units. The manufacturer ascerts that the pulse/burpe charge cycle conditions the cells. This is not new technology. Just not used often. The manufacturer also ascerts that you can charge the cells without benefit of memory concerns, meaning no harm is done in repeaking the cells, regardless of discharge state/level...
I have the following chargers:
Victor Egineering Super HiQ II, charge-discharge-cycle.
Hobbico Accu-Cycle Plus, charge-discharge-cycle
Sirius Pro-edition dual RX-TX charger
Sirius Limited edition "LE" dual RX charger.
Sirius Super Tester, battery discharge-tester.
Simprop Electronics Intelli-Control, charge-discharge-cycle.
[This is the same unit that is relabled as FMA's Super-Nova, and others]
I use the Sirius equiment routinely prior to actually flying, this eleviates any need to to even think about it, until I'm actually on the way to the field, simple and safe...
I perform scheduled interval cycling and comparison's to known data using the Super Tester, Victor, Intelli-Control or Accu-Cycle.
Without a doubt the simplest and safest equipment is the Sirius Chargers and Super Tester, IMO...
What really counts with all this battery testing, i.e; cycling/grading/use is the "known" discharge abilty of a given battery pack as compared to a previously graded/tested figure... Nothing more, nothing less...
We extrapolate performance figures, into unrealistic safety percentages and weigh this against the all mighty dollar... Go figure...
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ACE SuperSmart Charge
Joey, from what I'v seen written there doesn't seem to be any differences worth noting, I have a Smart Charger and a Super Smart Charger and use them interchangably on NiCads and NMH. The transmitter side will do small 4 cell batt's as well as transmitters. The receiver side does up to 2,000 MA batt's. I use a FMA SuperNova 250s for larger packs and my 4,000MA glow lighter.
#60
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
Stan, I use two 2150 6v Rx packs and one 1600 4.8v ignition pack and I have no problem getting at least four 15 minute flights on a single charge. This plane uses 6 JR 8411 digital servos. If you are using nicads you might want to cycle them and check their capacity. If you are using nimh's and you are not showing excessive voltage drops between flights you might want to consider larger packs.
So, as you can see Stan, I just use appropriate packs for those of us who fly larger airplanes with high draw servos. Though if people wanted to use smaller packs to save wieght and charge more often the Sirius chargers could be useful.
Bob
So, as you can see Stan, I just use appropriate packs for those of us who fly larger airplanes with high draw servos. Though if people wanted to use smaller packs to save wieght and charge more often the Sirius chargers could be useful.
Bob
#61
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
Bob,
Interesting that you get that many flights using 8411's.
You are using 2150's though that are more than my 1700's. so you will get a little more time there.
I do however check my Batteries capacity on my Alpha 4 from time to time. The last recent check showed my capacity on the 1700ma 5 cell packs to be arond 1800 ma.
So the capacity is not a problem.
I am using a Hitec 5735 digital on rudder, two 8411's on ailerons,
two digital profi's on elevators, and a 9202 on throttle.
I have another 33% with the same battery setup and the only difference is that I am using 4 9202's on ailerons, rest of the servos the same.
I get slightly more time on this setup.
I do not like to run my 5 cell packs below 5.8 on a 1000ma load.
Bob, tell me what I am doing wrong.
How low are you running your packs before you recharge??
What load are you using to check your batteries?
So you see, there is a need for the Sirius charger.
Stan
Interesting that you get that many flights using 8411's.
You are using 2150's though that are more than my 1700's. so you will get a little more time there.
I do however check my Batteries capacity on my Alpha 4 from time to time. The last recent check showed my capacity on the 1700ma 5 cell packs to be arond 1800 ma.
So the capacity is not a problem.
I am using a Hitec 5735 digital on rudder, two 8411's on ailerons,
two digital profi's on elevators, and a 9202 on throttle.
I have another 33% with the same battery setup and the only difference is that I am using 4 9202's on ailerons, rest of the servos the same.
I get slightly more time on this setup.
I do not like to run my 5 cell packs below 5.8 on a 1000ma load.
Bob, tell me what I am doing wrong.
How low are you running your packs before you recharge??
What load are you using to check your batteries?
So you see, there is a need for the Sirius charger.
Stan
#62
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
Yo Stan, I just went to Dave Thackers site (radical rc.com....where I got my packs) to check the difference in weight between the 1700 and the 2150's but there weren't any figures. Since you are cycling them I am assuming they are nicads. I am using nimh because of the weight and their lack of a "memory". I guess the extra 900mah in my two pack setup is the difference, though we would have to check with Red on whether or not there is a difference between a "nimh mah" and a "nicad mah". You wouldn't think so but that kind of stuff is way out of my league. I didn't get the nimh's because I thought they had "better mah". I can't think of a good way to say that. That makes it offical....I'm babbling.
The more I am thinking about it using two smaller nimh packs could significantly reduce weight (for 3D applications).
I know nothing about Futaba (or Hitec or the profi's for that matter) equipment...are the 9202's digital? Have you ever tried nimh packs? Both your A4 and the Sirius charger can handle them. They might save you some weight. You might be able to step up to larger nimh's at the same weight to increase flight time...though if you charge every other flight that's not a concern. What you could do is put in some nimh 1700 packs. Since you charge at the field the capacity is not a big concern and you can save some wieght.
I have heard that you can tell a 3 ounce difference in a 3D airplane....but I can't......I'm not that good but it makes me feel better. Sorry this post is ridiculously long, but its a good thread.
Bob
The more I am thinking about it using two smaller nimh packs could significantly reduce weight (for 3D applications).
I know nothing about Futaba (or Hitec or the profi's for that matter) equipment...are the 9202's digital? Have you ever tried nimh packs? Both your A4 and the Sirius charger can handle them. They might save you some weight. You might be able to step up to larger nimh's at the same weight to increase flight time...though if you charge every other flight that's not a concern. What you could do is put in some nimh 1700 packs. Since you charge at the field the capacity is not a big concern and you can save some wieght.
I have heard that you can tell a 3 ounce difference in a 3D airplane....but I can't......I'm not that good but it makes me feel better. Sorry this post is ridiculously long, but its a good thread.
Bob
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batteries
The 1700 nicads are 2/3 A size and weigh 37 grams per cell. The 2000-2100's are Sub c's and weigh 58 grams per cell. That equates to the sub c's weighing 4.35 oz more for the 4 cell pack. Quite a difference.
The Futaba 9202's are analog not digital. The Multiplex digitals do draw more power than other digitals. I have been using Futaba digitals for 3 years now.
On my chopper, I can get 5-6 flights per charge using a 4 cell 1700 pack. That is with 4 Futaba analog 9101's, Futaba 601 gyro and digital servo.
I recharge with my Super Nova 250S. In my 33% Extra, I have 6 Futaba 9206's, 2 Futaba 9151's, and 1 Futaba 9304 and use 2 1600 5 cell Nimh packs into 1 receiver. 5 flights and plenty of juice left.
In my new 40% Extra, I will have 10 Futaba 9206's, 2 Futaba 5050 giant digitals (296 oz of torque each, Futaba prototypes) and 1 Futaba 9304 using 2 receivers and 2 2700 5 cell Nimh packs.
The Futaba 9202's are analog not digital. The Multiplex digitals do draw more power than other digitals. I have been using Futaba digitals for 3 years now.
On my chopper, I can get 5-6 flights per charge using a 4 cell 1700 pack. That is with 4 Futaba analog 9101's, Futaba 601 gyro and digital servo.
I recharge with my Super Nova 250S. In my 33% Extra, I have 6 Futaba 9206's, 2 Futaba 9151's, and 1 Futaba 9304 and use 2 1600 5 cell Nimh packs into 1 receiver. 5 flights and plenty of juice left.
In my new 40% Extra, I will have 10 Futaba 9206's, 2 Futaba 5050 giant digitals (296 oz of torque each, Futaba prototypes) and 1 Futaba 9304 using 2 receivers and 2 2700 5 cell Nimh packs.
#64
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
Bob, Evan,
No one is saying what load they are using in checking their packs after that many flights, and what they consider a safe voltage to run their packs down to under that load.
I said that I stop when my 1700ma 5 cell nicad packs are at 5.8 volts with a 1000ma load. (two receivers with one 1700ma pack each receiver)
If I choose to run them down to 5.7, I might get another flight, but I do not.
Again, what are you guys running your 5 cell packs down to, with what load, before you stop flying????
Stan
No one is saying what load they are using in checking their packs after that many flights, and what they consider a safe voltage to run their packs down to under that load.
I said that I stop when my 1700ma 5 cell nicad packs are at 5.8 volts with a 1000ma load. (two receivers with one 1700ma pack each receiver)
If I choose to run them down to 5.7, I might get another flight, but I do not.
Again, what are you guys running your 5 cell packs down to, with what load, before you stop flying????
Stan
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ESV
I run the 5 cell packs down to 5.78 volts using a 1 amp load. I use the Duralite ESV, the digital readout version. I use the same ESV on my 4 cell 1700, which I run down to 4.7 volts. Also, in my chopper I have the Gem 2000 and I check it by maximing the current draw and checking it to see if the load makes the lights solid.
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335
I like the Hitec 335 charger as it is adjustable from .50 to 5.0 will take from 1 to 24 batteries, has peak detection, will charge nicad or nimh and will even charge a 4 cell or starter battery at the same time. I have one in my truck and one in shop connected to a 110 power unit. The price is right also.
I have nothing to do with Hitec the company.
I have nothing to do with Hitec the company.
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Peak detection vs. peak prediction
Guys, I don't want to get into too technical a discussion, because that is out of my league; but, I can tell you that I'm not going to test battery voltage in order to determine how low I will dare to fly one of my valuable aircraft. That's why I take the Sirius Charger with me to the field. A couple of flights and it's back on the charger while I practice the art of B/S for a while with friends, and there is no fear of overcharging. Actually I am conditioning my battery the longer I leave it on. Sure, I'll cycle my batteries, once a year to determine that they are not falling below 80% of their capacity.
One thing you guys have to realize that a peak detection charger necessarily overcharges your battery packs, because it goes to trickle when the voltage detected in the battery by the charger begins to fall off. This is an overcharged battery and a bad situation which could and will shorten the life of your batteries. The Serius charger is a peak prediction charger and calculates the charge curve of the batteries being charged. As the charge curve deminishes, the charger detects the charge curve and cuts off at the peak of the charge curve. It does not overcharge the batteries by waiting for the voltage to begin to fall of before going to the trickle cycle. The Sirius charger also does not have a true trickle charge cycle, it continues to pulse charge at a high voltage rate, but only enough pulses to maintain the battery at peak.
No, I don't own stock in Peak Electronics, I just see the results of exclusively using their product and it works for me.
One thing you guys have to realize that a peak detection charger necessarily overcharges your battery packs, because it goes to trickle when the voltage detected in the battery by the charger begins to fall off. This is an overcharged battery and a bad situation which could and will shorten the life of your batteries. The Serius charger is a peak prediction charger and calculates the charge curve of the batteries being charged. As the charge curve deminishes, the charger detects the charge curve and cuts off at the peak of the charge curve. It does not overcharge the batteries by waiting for the voltage to begin to fall of before going to the trickle cycle. The Sirius charger also does not have a true trickle charge cycle, it continues to pulse charge at a high voltage rate, but only enough pulses to maintain the battery at peak.
No, I don't own stock in Peak Electronics, I just see the results of exclusively using their product and it works for me.
#68
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
Actually Evan, if you were to get the Sanyo nimh 2150 cells, they are 35 grams each while the Sanyo nicad 1700 cells are 36 grams. So you can get 21% more capacity while saving 15 grams for three packs.
For those like most of the ones posting on this thread, who charge continuously at the field, you can get the Sanyo nimh 1700 cells at 27 grams each and save yourself 105 grams (for 3 packs) and get the same capacity. Why not save some weight while keeping your current capacity or increase your capacity and keep the weight the same?
Fighterpilot, I know what you are saying about the voltage. However it is just a "safe" number. Just as you have your "safe" capacity of 80% before you will throw a pack away after the fisrt cycle of the year. I could just say "I'm not going to trust one of my valuable aircraft to a pack that cycles at 80%, I'll buy new packs every year/month/week/day (as far as you want to go)"
The funny thing is....as zealously as each person is defending their methods I have never heard of someone who has lost an aircraft becauseof a poor charger or method of charging. Probably someone who has been around the block more than me...but not me. So all of this probably matters very little. But its fun to argue about! Enjoy everyone.
Bob
For those like most of the ones posting on this thread, who charge continuously at the field, you can get the Sanyo nimh 1700 cells at 27 grams each and save yourself 105 grams (for 3 packs) and get the same capacity. Why not save some weight while keeping your current capacity or increase your capacity and keep the weight the same?
Fighterpilot, I know what you are saying about the voltage. However it is just a "safe" number. Just as you have your "safe" capacity of 80% before you will throw a pack away after the fisrt cycle of the year. I could just say "I'm not going to trust one of my valuable aircraft to a pack that cycles at 80%, I'll buy new packs every year/month/week/day (as far as you want to go)"
The funny thing is....as zealously as each person is defending their methods I have never heard of someone who has lost an aircraft becauseof a poor charger or method of charging. Probably someone who has been around the block more than me...but not me. So all of this probably matters very little. But its fun to argue about! Enjoy everyone.
Bob
#69
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
Hi Bob!
I, too, get four flights (20 minutes each) on my dual 1650 NiMHs in my 33% H9 Cap. It is outfitted with eight 8411s and a 4735. I fly 3D most of the time so my surfaces are quite active. Some of the duration comparisons in this thread may not jive with one another due to what servos are in the plane and how the plane is being flown. Anyway... after four flights I'm down to 4.7v (they are 4.8v packs that charge up overnight to 5.7v).
If I get to the field in the afternoon... sometimes four flights is all I need. But, mostly I like to fly more than that. So, I was thinking of getting one of these Sirius LE chargers to supplement my Tekin charger so as to charge all three of my packs at once. Right now it takes at least 15 minutes per pack with the Tekin. So, I have to kibitz for 45 minutes. I like kibtizing as much as the next guy... but when I'm at the field... I mostly want to fly. :-)
Now, if four flights is your maximum... it would be pretty easy for most people to not need a field charger. Is that your point, Bob?
I, too, get four flights (20 minutes each) on my dual 1650 NiMHs in my 33% H9 Cap. It is outfitted with eight 8411s and a 4735. I fly 3D most of the time so my surfaces are quite active. Some of the duration comparisons in this thread may not jive with one another due to what servos are in the plane and how the plane is being flown. Anyway... after four flights I'm down to 4.7v (they are 4.8v packs that charge up overnight to 5.7v).
If I get to the field in the afternoon... sometimes four flights is all I need. But, mostly I like to fly more than that. So, I was thinking of getting one of these Sirius LE chargers to supplement my Tekin charger so as to charge all three of my packs at once. Right now it takes at least 15 minutes per pack with the Tekin. So, I have to kibitz for 45 minutes. I like kibtizing as much as the next guy... but when I'm at the field... I mostly want to fly. :-)
Now, if four flights is your maximum... it would be pretty easy for most people to not need a field charger. Is that your point, Bob?
#70
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
After reading your post I think I need to do less BSing and more flying! I guess if you want to be flying big airplanes all day you will need some sort of field charger.
I should do some kind of voltage test and see how long the ignition pack will last relative to the Rx packs. That way you could just get one of the Limited Edition cargers instead of two......or just be very diligent and make sure all of the packs are charged by switching the field charger.
Where do you fly JBH?
I should do some kind of voltage test and see how long the ignition pack will last relative to the Rx packs. That way you could just get one of the Limited Edition cargers instead of two......or just be very diligent and make sure all of the packs are charged by switching the field charger.
Where do you fly JBH?
#72
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Battery Charger UNSURPASSED!
I fly at the Flying Electrons. I think I've been to your field for a Jet rally. We really can't have jets at our place. Our runway is 400' and we have a very strict noise rule which sucks but our field is safe because of it. We are starting to get a few guys flying 29 and 33% planes so that's pretty cool.
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Sirius Charger's
I wish you guy's would stop talking about how good these Sirius chargers are!!! Youv'e got me wanting one bad now!! A couple of questions .....i'm going to be changing over to nimh for most of my planes and the largest battery i'm probably going to have is maybe a 2700 or so. Would I be better off to spend about 20 or so bucks more to get the limited or should I go with the pro? Also can this charger charge a large battery from discharge (like when you receive it) to fully charged in 30-45 minutes??....Thanks guy's
Dave
Dave
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DLT,
I would suggest you give the 15 hour plunge to your new battery from the wall charger....You need to step up from the pro.....You will be very satisfied....
5
I would suggest you give the 15 hour plunge to your new battery from the wall charger....You need to step up from the pro.....You will be very satisfied....
5
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5...I have a Hobbico Accucycle......say about 15 hours on the 125 rate, would that do? Then I could top it off with the Sirius and then keep it charged with the Sirius (nimh has no memory problems)?
Thanks, Dave
Thanks, Dave