HSchlange

My Feedback: (1)

I wonder if you could speak about the differences between Powerflite and Duralite batteries. Of particular interest is the built in charge regulator that Duralite is now putting into their packs, is it an advantage? Does Powerflite have a similar system built into it's charging system. I am building a 33% extra and I am deffinetly looking seriously at using lithium batteries. I need as much information as I can get to make the correct decision for a successful project. Thanks

DuralitePlus Support

Thanks for your interest in the Lithium-ion Battery technology. First, I believe that both Duraliteplus and Powerflite are working hard to supply the hobby with quality products.

The charging process is the most critical in regards to safety. You should not charge any 2 cell pack over 8.4 volts or any cell in that pack above 4.35 volts. DURALITE PLUS Batteries utilizes Charge Safe Circuitry installed in the pack that monitors each cell’s voltage and the total pack voltage during the charging cycle. This allows each pack to be charged to the proper voltage providing safe charging, maximum pack performance, and long life. We prefer not to rely only on a charger to safely control the maximum shut off voltage of a Lithium Ion battery. There is always the potential that an inappropriate charger could be connected to a lithium-Ion pack.

Thanks for your question.

Emory Donaldson

Duraliteplus Batteries
http://www.Duraliteplus.com
(386) 252-0201

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Is the Duralite 1800 mAh Lithium-Ion 2 cell pack using the industry standard 18650 cell?

DuralitePlus Support

Red,

Yes we are using the 18650 cell in our 1800mah pack.

Emory

OhD

What happens if one cell reaches 4.35 volts before the rest are charged? Does the circuitry in the pack open up and terminate the charging process? If so, how do you know that it happened?

DuralitePlus Support

The circuitry is designed to evaluate the balance of cells in the pack and the total pack voltage. If any cell reaches the 4.35 voltage threshold then the charging process stops for the pack. Cutoff voltage varies between chargers so we look for a free voltage 8.2 or harder to indicate a charged pack. If the free voltage of a pack is below 8 volts then it’s possible that the threshold voltage of one cell has been reached and the cells in the pack are out of balance. The pack should be returned for evaluation.

Thanks for your question.

Emory Donaldson

Duraliteplus Batteries
http://www.Duraliteplus.com
(386) 252-0201

OhD

Could someone then use a constant current, say 100 mA, and depend on the internal circuitry to terminate the charge?

DuralitePlus Support

We recommend utilizing the correct charger and use the charge safe circuit as a backup system to properly charger the Li-ion battery packs. Please feel free to call me to discuss options.

Thanks for your question.

Emory Donaldson

Duraliteplus Batteries
http://www.Duraliteplus.com
(386) 252-0201

Heads_Up

Same question was posted in PowerfLite's Forum. Please got to the following URL...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...17&forumid=224

Thankss

ml3456

Am I correct in that duralites are only Lithium ion, and Lithium poly paks are avaiable form others, and looks like the preferred battery in the future dur to lighter weight?

DuralitePlus Support

Duralite Batteries utilize the Lithium-ion Cylindrical or Prismatic cells in most applications. The reason for this is the roughness of these cells. At this time we supply Lithium Polymer cell for several electric plane and helicopter applications. The Lithium Polymer cells along with their positive and negative tabs are very fragile. Depending on the company supplying the Polymer cells there may be a small weight savings. I agree that within the next several years the Polymer cells will improve in roughness and performance and lend themselves to the severe environment we find in models powered by internal combustion engines. All Lithium based cells are enjoying improvements in all categories of performance.

Thanks for your question.

Emory Donaldson

Duralite Plus Batteries
http://www.Duraliteplus.com
(386) 252-0201

robert

Hi there,
some people are saying that the charge safe circuitry is just another thing that can go wrong with the battery pack in flight, and that it can crash from that. What are your views?
I don't really believe that the circuity is a bad thing, because of people using the wrong charger, but I just want to be sure before I spend all my money on them. Alsp, the people that tell me about that work for one of your competition companies. But I still want to be sure....
Thanks,
Robert.

DuralitePlus Support

Robert,

DURALITE PLUS Battery packs are supplied with two leads.
The black power lead is connected directly to the battery pack cells allowing for uninterrupted power to the receiver and servos, it does not pass through the charge circuitry. This is the same power connection to the cells/pack utilized by all Nicad and NiMH pack builders. This black connector plugs into the switch harness as usual.

The second lead is a yellow connector and is only used during charging, it has no effect on the power being supplied to the receiver and servos.

When connected to the charger current passes through the yellow connector and our Charge Safe Circuitry allowing for a fast and safe charging process. The charging process is the most critical in regards to safety. The Charge Safe Circuitry is installed in the pack to monitor each cell’s voltage and the total pack voltage during the charging cycle. This allows each pack to be charged to the proper voltage providing safe charging, maximum pack performance, and long life. It should be noted that we install the safety circuit in our packs because the Lithium-ion and Lithium Polymer battery cell manufactures we work with indicated the circuitry must be part of the pack. You cannot buy a Lithium-ion or Lithium Polymer battery pack from any of the World’s major battery manufactures without the control circuit; they won’t supply any pack without it. Several companies we work with require that you sign an agreement to that effect.

Jason is a great pilot. He has stated publicly that the equipment in his plane had nothing to do with his crash at the TOC. I have inclosed Jason’s e-mail address ([email protected]), drop him a note and ask the guy that really knows what happened.

Thanks for your question.

Emory Donaldson

Duraliteplus Batteries
http://www.Duraliteplus.com
(386) 252-0201

robert

Thanks for clearing that up, I'm feeling better now.
BTW, I know that Jasons crash had nothing to do with you battery, and I was mearly stating that I did not trust the guys who told me all of that info, so thats why I asked you. Thanks for the help! I have 4 packs, chargers, leads, etc. all heading my way! Excellent!
Robert.

ml3456

Emory,

I understand there may be benefits of charging each cell separately to say 4.2 volts. What I don't understand is why so many companies charge at the voltage rating of the whole battery back. If you look at the DC voltage rating of Sony, Nokia, Motorola, etc. chargers, their lithium chargers are at the volatge rating of the pack, not a cell. We used to say the same thing about Nicads and NiMh, but I don't see any smart technology on these. I also know that tese batteries are not as sensitive as lithium cells.

Thanks

Heads_Up

Emory

Sorry to jump in on your forum, but I feel this issue needs to be addressed.

Robert, could you please tell us who it was that said Jason Shulman's crash at the 2002 TOC was a result of his use of Duralite Batteries? I ask for one reason ... any time someone mentions competitors when talking about Duralite or PowerfLite, the assumption is made that we are the only two companies out there offering Lithium batteries to the RC hobby. This is not the case. There are a number of other companies out there offering Li-Ion ... PowerfLite and Duralite are the industry leaders ... no doubt

Having said that, allow me to add that there is no reason that any of us within PowerfLite ... Bryan Miller, Kevin Cobble, nor myself would ever make a statement like that. As Emory stated, Jason has said publicly that his crash at the 2002 TOC was NOT related to ANY of his equipment. It was pilot error related to him not switching to high rates before attempting a low altitude blender maneuver.

We at PowerfLite do not practice or engage in "slander tactics" with our competitors. Emory and his company offer nice products and we tell potential customers that all the time. They just approach the market in a different manner than us at PowerfLite.

Again Emory ... sorry to come into your forum, but I feel that RCU Members needed to know that the "competitors" that made a comment such as what Robert stated where NOT reflective of our feelings here at PowerfLite.

Hope you folks are doing well.

Rick Head
PowerfLite

robert

Rick, looking back over what I wrote, I admit that it sounded insensitive, and thus I have edited the post. I will not however, name the people, to save any company from embarrasment.
I put that point in, because I thought that I might have been offending Emory with all the points that were raised. The truth is, I wasn't sure whether to believe the guy who told me all of the apparent 'shortcomings' with the Duralite charging system, so I wished to tell him that the person I got all of that information from was not a very 'trusty' source. But I still wanted to make sure. I knew, as does everyone really, that Jasons crash was a pure accident, and it has nothing to do with batteries.
I hope I have explained myself clearly, and I apologise for any trouble caused.

Heads_Up

Robert

Absolutely no problem. No need to apologize. Hope that all your flights are great and that the ground never jumps up and hits your plane. I hate it when that happens to me

Rick
PowerfLite

isaac

My Feedback: (19)

All companies that sell this type of batteries claim that they have all kind of protective circuits for charging purposes. My question is what happened as you charge and this protecting circuit goes bad?
Do we have fire? explosion? What really will happened if this protection is not functioning. I don't think that we know what is the danger with these cells if something goes wrong.

Isaac

DuralitePlus Support

Isaac,

We use the same circuity used by the major battery manufacturing companies. They require using a monitoring circuitry in all Li-ion and Li-Polymer packs. They will not supply any pack without it, we agree with this philosophy. The safeties are there to protect the end user during the charge cycle. There is always the potential that an inappropriate charger, malfunctioning charger, or an incorrectly programmed charger being connected to a Lithium-ion or Lithium Polymer pack. Our “Charge Safe Circuitry” allows us to get maximum pack performance without compromising charge safety.

The “Charge Safe Circuitry” controls the charge cycle of the battery pack and is designed to evaluate the balance between cells in the pack and the total pack voltage. If any cell reaches the 4.35 voltage threshold or the total pack voltage reaches 8.5 volts then the charging process stops. At this time Duralite Plus is the only hobby battery supplier that includes this safety circuitry in each pack and will not supply single cells or packs without the safety protection. Don’t charge any Lithium-ion or Lithium Polymer pack without in pack safety protection.

We use the circuitry on the charge cycle only and if it fails the charging will stop, no damage just can't complete charging the battery.

Emory

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Emory,

I am aquiring a plane that is equipped with your batteries. I have used Powerflites in the past and of course, have a PF charger.
Can I use that charger with Duralite plus batts? Im thinking not.... but just wanted to check.

Thanks!

DuralitePlus Support

Wayne,

Your current charger will work just fine. With our Charge Safe Circuitry the pack is protected during the charge cycle.

Have a great weekend,

Emory