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New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Old 11-30-2007, 07:23 PM
  #51  
dragon_no_fly
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Well, all I can say is...............................................I LOVE THESE BATTERIES!!!!!
Thanks A123 Systems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Below, is why:

I just received in today my brand new Hyperion EOSO610i NET charger and balancing
leads as well as a brand new Pyramid PS-14KX 13.8 VDC power supply that provides
a continuous 12 Amps of power so that I can plug the new Hyperion charger into it
and use A/C power instead of a deep cycle lead acid battery when I am not at the field.
I finished the flight pack and I will post a picture of it tomorrow. I purchased Hyperion's
open-ended balancing leads and it was a real trick to figure out how to "adapt" the Hyperion
open-ended 6S connector to work on a 3S pack, since the adapter's plug end was molded
to fit into the 6S receptacle on the Hyperion multi-cell adapter board. PM me if you get
stuck in this position, I will tell you what the wiring sequence is. I finally figured out the
balancing leads, soldered them up, then I used "beads" of hot glue on each seam where
two cells meet to help hold the pack together and finally after this I used two sheets of
heat shrink wrap from my LHS for making battery packs to really secure the pack together.
Again, this is my very first battery pack, so the level of neatness may not satisfy some flyers,
but the pack is electrically sound so far, has no electrical shorts and is held together quite
well.

The last time this pack was charged fully and used was on Thanksgiving day and I only used
about 4-5 minutes out of the pack after it had been sitting around for three hours on that day.
The pack has not been used since, until today, nor has it been re-charged. After figuring out
the Hyperion charger, which IMHO is extremely easy to use, I was able to setup a memory location
for charging an A123 3S pack of 1,100 mAh capacity at a steady 5 Amps. I hooked the battery
up to the charger and balancer board and then selected this preset and charged/balanced.
I would not have believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes, but the Hyperion charger
re-charged the pack and balanced it in 3 minutes, 50 seconds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The battery was barely
warm and the charger was room temperature at the end of charge. I then flew my heli for a
full 14 minutes, 45 seconds before the battery "dumped". I went back and re-charged it a
few minutes later after the end of the flight. Again, I have never seen this before in R/C.........
the freakin' A123 battery was re-charged/balanced in 12 minutes, 44 seconds!!!!! At the end
of the charge, the battery was barely warm, while the Hyperion charger was ROOM TEMPERATURE.
Simply put, my heli's power setup is not ideal, a higher K/V motor with a smaller main motor
pinion will draw less Amps than my JustGoFly 300DF main motor with 14 tooth pinion, but
the flight time EXCEEDS the re-charging time and I am re-charging this pack at A123's recom-
mended rate. I am actually thinking about adjusting the charging preset up to 6 Amps, but no
more than this. This will allow, on average, 10 minute re-charges!

If any one thinks that these batteries are "hype" or not the real deal, they are either lying or
they do not know what they are talking about. The power of the heli's setup is AWESOME.
At half throttle, the heli will continue to steadily rise out of sight...yes, keep going beyond two
telephone poles high. In order to maintain a steady hover at 7-8 feet above ground I have to
hold no more than 40-45% throttle stick deflection, anything more and the heli will climb.
The discharge was flat and in the last minute or so, the power dropped a little, then it had its
characteristic "abrupt knee". I am sorry for this long-winded post, but I have never seen
anything like this since I have been in the field of radio control.......



Old 12-01-2007, 01:17 PM
  #52  
dragon_no_fly
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Here are some pictures of the finished pack: (again this is my very first R/C battery pack
that I have made and consists of a 3S or 3 in series of the new A123 1,100 mAh cells
which I got from a Black and Decker VPX tool accessories kit)

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Old 12-01-2007, 01:28 PM
  #53  
dragon_no_fly
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Conventional wisdom states that for "small models"; that is, models that weigh
around 12-16 ounces, than 2S-3S LiPo are the way to go, but I am finding out
with my heli that this is not so. When I was constructing this pack, I had many
thoughts going through my mind, like....it's a bit too heavy and.....the voltage
will be a bit on the low side....so compared with a good quality 15C 1,320 3S
LiPo, there probably won't be much comparison between the two in regards to
this particular usage context (micro electric helicopter). After flying the helicopter
and then quickly going 2 pinion teeth up, not only can this 1,100 mAh 3S pack
fly it, it flies it REALLY well. It feels as though there is limitless power; that is,
no matter what the heli demands from the power pack, the battery will ALWAYS
be able to provide the current necessary. Needless to say, this is very re-assuring,
not to mention the fact, really awesome. I have just sold my old charger and have
retired ALL of my Ni-XX-based flight packs.....effective immediately. The next
challenge will be a micro electric CP (collective pitch) setup, so I may still need a
3S LiPo, since weight and higher voltage really come into play in those usage
contexts, but I am not at all going to give up on a 3S A123 1,100 mAh pack. If it
works well enough........good bye to LiPos as well.....no, wait a minute, good bye, good
riddance to LiPos!!!!
Old 12-01-2007, 01:33 PM
  #54  
dragon_no_fly
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Oh and another thing, I have (unintentionally SHORTED) the 3S A123 1,100 mAh
battery pack twice when I was constructing it and do you know what has happened?
............NOTHING, not a thing at all. If I did that to my 3S LiPo-based pack, I would
have ran outside and placed it onto concrete and waited for it to swell and possibly
vent/ignite.
Old 12-03-2007, 10:49 PM
  #55  
plasticman
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

I purchased a couple of these VPX packs at Home Depot. Very impressive so far. One thing I found out though, one of the battery tabs fell off quite easily. Looks like they are sonic-welded. Anybody else have this problem?

By-the-way I see that Wal-Mart now carries these packs!

David
Old 12-06-2007, 08:02 PM
  #56  
n-2-stuff
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

what is the max amp draw of these little guys?
thanks
scott
Old 12-06-2007, 08:30 PM
  #57  
everydayflyer
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

I have CBA Discharge grpah up tp 21A in post#1
Old 12-06-2007, 10:48 PM
  #58  
n-2-stuff
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

thanks everydayflyer
at 21 amps how hard is it pushing the batteries (to hot) (short life)?

thanks for the last reply

scott
Old 12-07-2007, 08:38 AM
  #59  
yarom
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!


Anybody has schematics on how to create battery packs (2 batteries) in terms of power lead and balanced lead?
Old 12-07-2007, 10:04 AM
  #60  
A123 Racing
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Hello Yarom,

You can follow the link below to our developer kit instructions page. This gives simple instructions on parallel and series wiring of packs.

[link=http://www.a123racing.com/Instructions/PT400111.pdf]http://www.a123racing.com/Instructions/PT400111.pdf[/link]

Hope this helps,


Power . Safety . Life

Brian

[link=http://www.a123racing.com][/link]
Old 12-07-2007, 07:34 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!


ORIGINAL: n-2-stuff

thanks everydayflyer
at 21 amps how hard is it pushing the batteries (to hot) (short life)?

thanks for the last reply

scott
Not sure how to answer. Text on graph clearly states I started a cooling fan when cells reached 120F. IMO at 21A cont. without any form of cooling they will exceed 140F and their life will be seriously shortened.

21A C would provide an approx. 2 1/2 min. flight or run. Flown in an aircraft for 6-8 min. with normal air flow they barely get warm.

Charles
Old 12-08-2007, 01:09 PM
  #62  
n-2-stuff
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

hi charles
i fly various electric r/c. it looks like these are out for the fast planes (pylon) but should work great in alot of others.
thanks for all your hard work and replies.
scott
Old 12-09-2007, 12:12 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!


ORIGINAL: yarom


Anybody has schematics on how to create battery packs (2 batteries) in terms of power lead and balanced lead?

Great interactive series , parallel plus balnacing leads.

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_lipo.html


Charles
Old 12-09-2007, 01:48 PM
  #64  
dragon_no_fly
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

So far, really good results with these new batteries. The new A123 3S 1,100 mAh pack is holding up.
I have just started to charge the new pack on my Hyperion charger which I mentioned above
in this thread at 6.0 Amps. Real-world charging figures on a run-down pack; that is, a pack
whose cells are about 2.750 Volts per cell are full re-charges in 10 minutes, 30-50 seconds and
the battery pack is at or below 90 degrees F. Again, your mileage will vary depending upon the
application you will use them (new A123 cells in), but for me and my current application as I
mentioned before, my run time exceeds the re-charging phase by like 4 minutes. I am quickly
finding out with these batteries that (in theory), I can fly all day long and the batteries in my
Futaba transmitter are running down and need re-charging before long. If I were to go to a
field with the new setup, I would literally have to carry an extra set of 2,500 mAh AA NiMH
batteries that I use in my tranny, since they would run down before anything else!; (assuming
of course I did not crash or some other event that would cause me to head back home). Right
now, I only have the one pack, but all I need to do is to head back to Home Depot and pick up
another Black and Decker VPX 2S pack for like $19.97, since I already own a spare 1,100 mAh
cell and all the other materials to make a pack from scratch. With two packs, there will always
be a battery available....anytime, since re-charging times are faster than run times. You may
have heard about the flat discharge curves on these batteries, but I can tell you from personal
experience now that it is TRUE. I will have to implement a timer with an audible warning within
90-95% percent of the run time, since there is little to no warning that the battery is about to
dump. That's how flat the discharge curve is! Simply put, no battery in R/C can provide the
amount of discharge for a given size/weight as these new A123 cells do WITH a 10 minute re-
charging time. These batteries, although not perfect (nothing really ever is, especially
technical things), are revolutionary and were the batteries I had been waiting for; a flight pack
that could be safely re-charged at the flying field in less than 15 minutes...




Old 12-09-2007, 08:35 PM
  #65  
rmh
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Yeh Afriend just brought me 6 VXP packs to make 3 flight packs -- myown packs work extremely well on a 480 EFlite/ 11x7 GWS prop and 22 oz 3D model - straight up - and easily 5 mins flogging the crap out of it.
I like the prop as it runs smoother than any other prop-I have balanced other types to "perfect" --they still add more vibes than these goofy GWS orange straight blade props
I wish they made 15x10's --
Old 12-12-2007, 02:50 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Dick and All,

Well, I am totally convinced that A123's are the future for reciever flight packs. I purchased a Cell Pro 4S and a 2300 man for my six digital servo 72 inch Sukhoi and an 1100 for my rag bag Tiger .60. I am getting five 12 minute flights on my Sukhoi and my voltage is only down to 6.35 volts under a 500 mah load before I recharge. The VPX pack is only down to 6.36 after five flights on my tiger .60. The Tiger only has five stantard servos.

I arrived at what I consider to be safe with a margin for error with a 500 mah load test and writing down the voltage at 15 minute intervals. The VPX pack takes 2 hours to go down to 6.12 volts and the 2300 pack takes four hours to get to 6.18 volts. You simply cannot check these pack with a volt metter which on resolves to a tenth of a volt.

By the way, my connectors (standard JR issue) just start to get warm to the touch when charging the 2300 from totally depleted (about 6.00 volts). My VPX pack never even gets warm.

Thanks for convincing me to switch!!!

Travis
Old 12-12-2007, 09:47 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

I would be glad to know, how cell protection fuse(s) work in 1100mAh cells. Comparing with 2300mAh.

Is it true that 1100mAh go open circuit, instead of short circuit done by 2300mAh?
It affects reliability of receiver packs as well as using BEC to poer receiver and servos.
Old 12-13-2007, 09:08 AM
  #68  
thaus
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Several people have commented on the weak tab welds on the A123. I agree, and this weakness will lead to mid air failure in planes with high vibration, such as gassers. I hope everyone who identifies this problem will report it here. I plan to use these on a 28% and would like to know the best methods to protect the cells from breaking the weld. Gluing the cells together and foam padding will help.
Old 12-13-2007, 09:57 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

ORIGINAL: thaus

Several people have commented on the weak tab welds on the A123. I agree, and this weakness will lead to mid air failure in planes with high vibration, such as gassers. I hope everyone who identifies this problem will report it here. I plan to use these on a 28% and would like to know the best methods to protect the cells from breaking the weld. Gluing the cells together and foam padding will help.
As a former battery supplier to Black & Decker (and DeWalt) power tool business, I can assure you the tabs on the cells they use will stand up to the abuse that a power tool is expected to see, including 3 ft drop to concrete surface. Yes, the welds can be broken if you torque the tabs but the battery design should be such as to prevent this. That is the cells should be secured such that they cannot move in relation to each other, and there is no stress applied to the tabs.
Old 12-13-2007, 10:42 AM
  #70  
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

Unfortunately on the first pack I opened up one of the tabs connecting to the batteries was broken off when I opened the package. It's possible that you would never know it using the battery in a tool since things were packed together in there pretty tightly, but when I pulled things apart the tab was hanging free. I didn't realize at first that it was supposed to be soldered/welded on!
Old 12-13-2007, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

That is exatly what I mean. These welds look fragile. Who else has had these problems with the 1100 batteries?
Old 12-14-2007, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!


ORIGINAL: Mr.Pibb

Unfortunately on the first pack I opened up one of the tabs connecting to the batteries was broken off when I opened the package. It's possible that you would never know it using the battery in a tool since things were packed together in there pretty tightly
In a tool that can draw 15 to 20 amps or more, you sure would notice a bad tab weld.
Old 12-14-2007, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

I have now done 8 packs -and the welds tho they do not look robust -do hold the tab/ connector tightly to the cells
you can't get ham fisted with em tho--
an interesting side --the voltage on each and everypack has been identical.
Locally some of the boys are making em up for the 20-30 ounce foam models using motors from 400size to the EF10 (a bit much in my book).
My foamy shown is a vto --oos setup using a EF480 22ozs
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:37 AM
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

I have the cells ordered from RC vendor and they have no tabs at all.
I have soldered directly on the cell, like I did with 2300mAh M1 cells.
M1A 1100mAh cells are soldered much easier, no special flux is needed.
In a split of a second, the solder is done and cell terminal cooled by wet sponge.
Old 12-15-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: New 1100 mAh A123 available everywhere and no word here!

dick Hanson, nice job on those packs! They look real nice. I just finished a few days ago
my second 3S A123 1,100 mAh pack and it is ready to go. After experimenting with some
new charging rates, I have decided upon a steady 6.30 Amp rate. This is 1.3 Amps higher
than the max standard rate of 5.00 Amps for these cells. On my Hyperion charger, the
3S pack had been run down and was measuring only 8.6 Volts, I was able to re-charge
the pack in exactly 9 minutes, 49 seconds. The pack was not any hotter than the 6.00 Amp
rate that I was charging them at before. I wanted the smallest increase in charging rate
for least wear and tear on the packs that would provide a dead even 10 minute re-charge
time on a run down pack. 9 minutes, 49 seconds is a personal record for me on a flight
pack; this is simply unprecedented. For now, I am not going to charge the packs any quicker
than this and I will accept the *hopefully* small decrease in cycle life this *may* cause, but
the re-charging time is just too good. As an offset to the increased charging rate, I am only
pulling like 3.95C out of the cells on average, which is nothing for these guys. Right at the
end of the 9 minute, 49 second re-charging test, the cells were warm, but not close to being
hot. For those concerned about the spot welds on these tabs, when I built my second pack
I had to pull off one of the welded tabs and this required considerably effort with a needle
nose plier. One of the tabs came off fairly easily, but the other was stubborn and I really had
to tug and pull with my needle nose pliers to yank the remaining tab off. I hope this sets some
of your minds at ease.

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