BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
08-01-2008, 04:56 PM
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BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
Today I discovered I'd left a battery pack, 4 cell NiCad, connected through a switch harness, in a model for the last ten years.
Wiring was Futaba. Expecting some sort of corrosion I disconnected the battery to switch plug and saw some lovely green corrosion on one of the male pins from the switch wires. Finding no corrosion on the black wire, I pulled the red wire and there it was.
On Red Scholefield's battery clinic site, only the black wire disease is mentioned.
Curious, how, or why, would it happen to the red wire?
Wiring was Futaba. Expecting some sort of corrosion I disconnected the battery to switch plug and saw some lovely green corrosion on one of the male pins from the switch wires. Finding no corrosion on the black wire, I pulled the red wire and there it was.
On Red Scholefield's battery clinic site, only the black wire disease is mentioned.
Curious, how, or why, would it happen to the red wire?
08-01-2008, 05:28 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
http://www.wwcn.org/~grit/faqs/airmodelsfaq.html#question:What%20is%20the%20black %20corrosion%20often%20found%20in%20a%20black%20wi re%20(Black%20Wire%20Syndrom)-
http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/blkwire.html
http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/blkwire.html
08-01-2008, 07:47 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
10 years and anything can happen. Cells eventually short and start leaking, the green stuff can appear on either or both leads under these circumstances.
08-02-2008, 08:33 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
Was hoping for your reply Red.
Perhaps It was because the positive red wire cell connection had the most cell terminal corrosion while the negative black wire cell connection had none on either terminal.
In any case, I was surprised to see the negative black wire free of corrosion.
Another question: Futaba Battery wire uses plain copper wire strands for the positive wire and TINNED copper wire for the negative wire. Would you know the reason for this???
Perhaps It was because the positive red wire cell connection had the most cell terminal corrosion while the negative black wire cell connection had none on either terminal.
In any case, I was surprised to see the negative black wire free of corrosion.
Another question: Futaba Battery wire uses plain copper wire strands for the positive wire and TINNED copper wire for the negative wire. Would you know the reason for this???
08-02-2008, 08:36 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: woopie
Was hoping for your reply Red.
Perhaps It was because the positive red wire cell connection had the most cell terminal corrosion while the negative black wire cell connection had none on either terminal.
In any case, I was surprised to see the negative black wire free of corrosion.
Another question: Futaba Battery wire uses plain copper wire strands for the positive wire and TINNED copper wire for the negative wire. Would you know the reason for this???
Was hoping for your reply Red.
Perhaps It was because the positive red wire cell connection had the most cell terminal corrosion while the negative black wire cell connection had none on either terminal.
In any case, I was surprised to see the negative black wire free of corrosion.
Another question: Futaba Battery wire uses plain copper wire strands for the positive wire and TINNED copper wire for the negative wire. Would you know the reason for this???
08-02-2008, 09:26 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
I have seen it both ways, probably depends on which vendor is making thier packs at the time.
I have seen it both ways, probably depends on which vendor is making thier packs at the time.
So there is no reason?? Would tend to think there was.
08-02-2008, 10:29 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: woopie
So there is no reason?? Would tend to think there was.
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
I have seen it both ways, probably depends on which vendor is making thier packs at the time.
I have seen it both ways, probably depends on which vendor is making thier packs at the time.
08-02-2008, 03:31 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
I seriously doubt that the corrosion you found on the red wire was what is usually meant by "black wire disease". If the wire did not get very brittle, turn black all the way through and become unsolderable, it is not black wire disease, just corrosion on the outer layer. Black wire disease penetrates all the way through the wire, not just on the surface. Also, the fact that it was(is) called "black wire disease" has no relationship to the color of the insulation but describes the color of the metal once it has the black wire disease. Also, true black wire disease always occurs first at the negative NiCad battery terminal and slowly progresses away from that point usually stopping at the first electrical junction such as a terminal or switch contact. In some 60 years of working with batteries and electronics, I have never seen black wire disease on anything except equipment powered by NiCad batteries. It was more prevalent with NiCad wet cells than the current sealed cells.
08-02-2008, 04:48 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: Rodney
I seriously doubt that the corrosion you found on the red wire was what is usually meant by "black wire disease". If the wire did not get very brittle, turn black all the way through and become unsolderable, it is not black wire disease, just corrosion on the outer layer. Black wire disease penetrates all the way through the wire, not just on the surface. Also, the fact that it was(is) called "black wire disease" has no relationship to the color of the insulation but describes the color of the metal once it has the black wire disease. Also, true black wire disease always occurs first at the negative NiCad battery terminal and slowly progresses away from that point usually stopping at the first electrical junction such as a terminal or switch contact. In some 60 years of working with batteries and electronics, I have never seen black wire disease on anything except equipment powered by NiCad batteries. It was more prevalent with NiCad wet cells than the current sealed cells.
I seriously doubt that the corrosion you found on the red wire was what is usually meant by "black wire disease". If the wire did not get very brittle, turn black all the way through and become unsolderable, it is not black wire disease, just corrosion on the outer layer. Black wire disease penetrates all the way through the wire, not just on the surface. Also, the fact that it was(is) called "black wire disease" has no relationship to the color of the insulation but describes the color of the metal once it has the black wire disease. Also, true black wire disease always occurs first at the negative NiCad battery terminal and slowly progresses away from that point usually stopping at the first electrical junction such as a terminal or switch contact. In some 60 years of working with batteries and electronics, I have never seen black wire disease on anything except equipment powered by NiCad batteries. It was more prevalent with NiCad wet cells than the current sealed cells.
It is the chemical reaction of the electrolyte, KOH with the copper and it seems to be polarity driven which accounts for the negative wire being impacted first. At least that is the theory supported by Rodney's 60 years of experience. He probably even remembers the DEAC Button Ni-Cds. :-)
08-02-2008, 06:56 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: Rodney
I seriously doubt that the corrosion you found on the red wire was what is usually meant by "black wire disease". If the wire did not get very brittle, turn black all the way through and become unsolderable, it is not black wire disease, just corrosion on the outer layer. Black wire disease penetrates all the way through the wire, not just on the surface. Also, the fact that it was(is) called "black wire disease" has no relationship to the color of the insulation but describes the color of the metal once it has the black wire disease. Also, true black wire disease always occurs first at the negative NiCad battery terminal and slowly progresses away from that point usually stopping at the first electrical junction such as a terminal or switch contact. In some 60 years of working with batteries and electronics, I have never seen black wire disease on anything except equipment powered by NiCad batteries. It was more prevalent with NiCad wet cells than the current sealed cells.
I seriously doubt that the corrosion you found on the red wire was what is usually meant by "black wire disease". If the wire did not get very brittle, turn black all the way through and become unsolderable, it is not black wire disease, just corrosion on the outer layer. Black wire disease penetrates all the way through the wire, not just on the surface. Also, the fact that it was(is) called "black wire disease" has no relationship to the color of the insulation but describes the color of the metal once it has the black wire disease. Also, true black wire disease always occurs first at the negative NiCad battery terminal and slowly progresses away from that point usually stopping at the first electrical junction such as a terminal or switch contact. In some 60 years of working with batteries and electronics, I have never seen black wire disease on anything except equipment powered by NiCad batteries. It was more prevalent with NiCad wet cells than the current sealed cells.
How bout I mail the battery and wire to you! Every strand of the original copper in the possitive lead is black from the cell positive terminal to the male plug connector of the switch harness. The gold plated male and female pins are green. The black corrosion has not passed to the positive wire going to the switch. I'm not trying to sell you a square wheel! I happen to know what I'm looking at!
I'm curious as to why?
08-02-2008, 06:58 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
Probably same reason transmitter manufacturers have reversed charge jack on the transmitter not following convention of center pin positive.
Probably same reason transmitter manufacturers have reversed charge jack on the transmitter not following convention of center pin positive.
Perhaps.
08-05-2008, 09:29 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
This vibrant conversation has inspired me to pull a couple old K&B outboards down from the rafters in my garage. They've been up there for about 20 years, and I don't remember what state they were in when I packed them... anyone up for an experiment???
08-05-2008, 02:55 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: vicdat
This vibrant conversation has inspired me to pull a couple old K&B outboards down from the rafters in my garage. They've been up there for about 20 years, and I don't remember what state they were in when I packed them... anyone up for an experiment???
This vibrant conversation has inspired me to pull a couple old K&B outboards down from the rafters in my garage. They've been up there for about 20 years, and I don't remember what state they were in when I packed them... anyone up for an experiment???
Do you mean the battery packs? ....... Sure!
Since my photo wasn't believable enough, I showed the pack to a couple of modelers at the field today and they shared my surprise at the black corroded wire inside the positive red wire insulation.
Perhaps it's just an anomaly, but I won't be surprised if it happens again. More important than a connected dead battery pack, over a long period of time, is to see how far any corrosion traveled. In my case the corrosion traveled into the gold pin from the switch harness connector, so the switch harness will be replaced, or just solder in a new wire connector to the switch.
08-05-2008, 06:31 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
Not limited to nicads. Used to run a small motor shop. About 1 out of every 100 rider mowers would have black wire. Couldn't tell how far down the wire it ran under the insulation, so the safest thing was to replace the whole pos. wire. This was with a lead acid batt. My take was a miniscule amount of current going through the wire. They only had a diode between the alternator and the batt. no mechanical switch.
08-05-2008, 06:37 PM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
Wire corrosion can come from many different sources. Usually any from Ni-Cd batteries (electrolyte) has a small amount of greenish tint to it if examined closely.
08-06-2008, 07:23 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
Wire corrosion can come from many different sources. Usually any from Ni-Cd batteries (electrolyte) has a small amount of greenish tint to it if examined closely.
Wire corrosion can come from many different sources. Usually any from Ni-Cd batteries (electrolyte) has a small amount of greenish tint to it if examined closely.
Another request from your knowledge base: I've always assumed gold pin connectors were GOLD PLATED. Is the plating really GOLD???
Thanks.
08-06-2008, 10:12 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: woopie
My positive wire gold plated pin connector had a lovely shade of green.
Another request from your knowledge base: I've always assumed gold pin connectors were GOLD PLATED. Is the plating really GOLD???
Thanks.
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
Wire corrosion can come from many different sources. Usually any from Ni-Cd batteries (electrolyte) has a small amount of greenish tint to it if examined closely.
Wire corrosion can come from many different sources. Usually any from Ni-Cd batteries (electrolyte) has a small amount of greenish tint to it if examined closely.
Another request from your knowledge base: I've always assumed gold pin connectors were GOLD PLATED. Is the plating really GOLD???
Thanks.
08-06-2008, 10:40 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
OOOH, nice connector. As to gold plating, I sometimes wonder if the plating might be the same as gold COLORED jewelry.
Thanks for reply.
Thanks for reply.
08-06-2008, 10:54 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
Red; could this black wire be some kind of electrolytic corrosion as opposed to the green corrosion that, I think needs oxygen. I've stripped the insulation back for 2 or 3 ins and still found the black corrosion, where I don't think the oxygen could get back that far, which is why I replaced the whole wire??
08-06-2008, 10:59 AM
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RE: BLACK WIRE DISEASE in the RED WIRE
ORIGINAL: Flypaper 2
Red; could this black wire be some kind of electrolytic corrosion as opposed to the green corrosion that, I think needs oxygen. I've stripped the insulation back for 2 or 3 ins and still found the black corrosion, where I don't think the oxygen could get back that far, which is why I replaced the whole wire??
Red; could this black wire be some kind of electrolytic corrosion as opposed to the green corrosion that, I think needs oxygen. I've stripped the insulation back for 2 or 3 ins and still found the black corrosion, where I don't think the oxygen could get back that far, which is why I replaced the whole wire??
