What the heck happened??
08-09-2009, 08:19 AM
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What the heck happened??
Last night (about midnight) I plugged my transmitter in. It was sitting at 9.6V based on the display of the radio. My charger charges at 70mah.
I checked it at 9am this morning and unplugged it because I was going to practice on my simulator only to find out that the transmitter didn't turn on. I discovered that the battery pack had blown up, or at least bloated and melted through the Tx casing. Pictures attached.
I don't understand why this would have happened. It's a Futaba charger and a Futaba Tx.
The only thing that I can think of is that the Tx is about 12 years (approx).
Does anyone know why it would have happened.
I checked it at 9am this morning and unplugged it because I was going to practice on my simulator only to find out that the transmitter didn't turn on. I discovered that the battery pack had blown up, or at least bloated and melted through the Tx casing. Pictures attached.
I don't understand why this would have happened. It's a Futaba charger and a Futaba Tx.
The only thing that I can think of is that the Tx is about 12 years (approx).
Does anyone know why it would have happened.
08-09-2009, 10:09 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
like RC said, either the batt or the charger shorted...check the output on the charger if its fine , then its the batts for sure ......or maybe your futabe radio didnt like the color yellow anymore LOL
08-09-2009, 10:59 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
A 70 mA wall wart could not produce the current to do that damage. It had to be a short circuit draining the pack at a very high rate.
08-09-2009, 11:04 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
If it was a short then it had to be between the end of pack (pack's + and -) and the leads. A very tiny space. Possibly the neg tab or the + tab where it rested on the cell.
08-09-2009, 11:39 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
Note that there is no apparent damage to the lead to the battery, so it was not a short external to the pack. Note also that all of the sleeving on all the cells shows the same amount of deterioration. This tells me it was a complete pack melt down, not just an individual cell shorting. What could cause a complete meltdown then if not an external short? Could the fault lie with a charger malfunction that was overcharging at a rate sufficient to cause the pack to go into thermal runaway? I don't ever recall seeing this happen. Could the OP have inadvertently plugged in a JR charger that would have charged the pack in reverse. Hardly likely since there is a diode in most Futaba transmitters that would prevent this. This takes us back to severe overcharge - how it happened - who knows? Theories anyone?
08-09-2009, 12:29 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
Observation: The two cells to the left appear to have been hottest. This could have been a short between the tabs at the lead connections, this would not affect the leads. I have not seen a reverse charge cause this much damage, especially at 70 mA.
It is also pretty difficult to plug a 2.1 mm plug into a futaba jack at 2.5 mm, though I have seen a few guys pound them in.
It is also pretty difficult to plug a 2.1 mm plug into a futaba jack at 2.5 mm, though I have seen a few guys pound them in.
08-09-2009, 03:46 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
The charger is for sure a Futaba charger as I don't own another one. I just bought this charger a month ago as I couldn't find the original anymore. I saw the guy at the hobby store take it out of the *equivalent* radio that is sold today. There is no way I could have reversed the polarity because it is the round (with pin) piece that plugs into my Tx. I've used this charger 3 times since I bought it though so I don't think there is a problem with the charger.
After careful inspection, the damage seems to be localized to the bater and compartment surrounding the battery. I think *IF* I can find a new back plate for it that I might be able to still use the charger.
The only thing that i can think of is that it must have been some problem with the battery pack itself because there was nothing else wrong. Maybe just because the pack was so old, but I never thought that something like this would happen. I figured worst case it wouldn't hold a charge very long but it seemed to be lasting quite a while, so I thought it was still okay.
Very Frustrating.
After careful inspection, the damage seems to be localized to the bater and compartment surrounding the battery. I think *IF* I can find a new back plate for it that I might be able to still use the charger.
The only thing that i can think of is that it must have been some problem with the battery pack itself because there was nothing else wrong. Maybe just because the pack was so old, but I never thought that something like this would happen. I figured worst case it wouldn't hold a charge very long but it seemed to be lasting quite a while, so I thought it was still okay.
Very Frustrating.
08-09-2009, 04:37 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
DUDE, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? IM GLAD YOU DON'T FLY AT MY CLUB!!! SERIOUSLY WHAT HAPPEND IS YOU HAD A SHORTED PACK. NICAD BATTERIES NEED TO BE REPLACED PERIODICALLY. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF THEM. YOU HAD ONE OR MORE SHORTED CELLS IN YOUR PACK . YOU NEED TO LEARN ABOUT HOW TO CYCLE A BATTERY TO GET AN IDEA ABOUT WHAT IM SAYING. SURE YOU SAY, I CHARGE THE BATTERY AND IT WORKS FINE. BUT FOR HOW LONG? WHEN THAT PACK WAS NEW IT SHOULD HAVE GAVE YOU ROUGHLY ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF OF USE BEFORE RECHARGING IT. THAT BATTERY PROBABLY GAVE YOU ABOUT TEN MINUTES!!! ANY WAY IF YOU ONLY USED THAT TRANSMITTER FOR THE SIMULATOR I WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD NOT BUY A NEW BATTERY PACK FOR IT. LOOK UP NOBS BATTERIES AND SR BATTERIES AND ON THEIR WEBSITES THEY HAVE A BATTERY OF INFORMATION (A BATTERY OF INFORMATION?) HA HA !!! ANYWAY LOOK THEM UP AND READ WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ABOUT TAKING CARE OF NICAD ,NIMH ETC BATTERIES. IT IS VERY INTERESTING AND AFTER READING IT YOU WILL TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHY WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, DID!! IF YOU NEED ANY MORE INFORMATION,JUST POST IT AND OR EMAIL ME. ERIC
08-09-2009, 04:50 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
DUDE, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? IM GLAD YOU DON'T FLY AT MY CLUB!!!
This Tx battery was still lasting WELL over 1 hr of solid simulator time. I took my plane out on Friday and flew for about 20 minutes. I then came back and fooled around on the simulator for over 1 hour with my son, so how was I suppose to know the thing was toast. I replaced the battery in my plane because I didn't want to take any chances. If I had of thought in a million years that this would have happend, I would have bought a new one for my Tx too.
I think I may have spoken too soon about the charger. It may have played a part too, but maybe not. I have attached 2 new pics.
My charger states on the adapter that it is 70mA and that it is 9.6V. In fact it was outputting at 18.8mA and 8.0V. Could that have added to the situation or still most likely a shorted pack?
08-09-2009, 04:52 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
If the charger worked before then it isn't reversed (batt plug cannot be plugged in backward or anything funny like that) That points back toward a short that was somewhere between the packs ends and the lead. Poking around with a dvm may turn up some info. Check each cell. If the pack is still shorted it will be 0 volts.
Is there most damage right where the red and black leads are soldered to pack? Did one of those two tabs (the + one) burn into the cell casing.
Is there most damage right where the red and black leads are soldered to pack? Did one of those two tabs (the + one) burn into the cell casing.
08-09-2009, 05:09 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
COMON JIM I WASN'T INSULTING YOU,MAYBE ITS JUST MY NEW YORK ATTITUDE,I WOULDN'T HAVE OFFERED TO HELP YOU IF I DID!!!!!!!! ANYWAY,THE CHARGER IS FINE.THE BATTERY IS TWELVE YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! READ THOSE WEBSITES ERIC
08-09-2009, 06:06 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
ORIGINAL: ERICHEEL
COMON JIM I WASN'T INSULTING YOU,MAYBE ITS JUST MY NEW YORK ATTITUDE,
COMON JIM I WASN'T INSULTING YOU,MAYBE ITS JUST MY NEW YORK ATTITUDE,
Jim indeed 12 years even if a pack has never been charged is perhaps pushing it and of course this event was an internal short as Red and others indicated.
ERICHEEL Your post was not only insulting but unbecoming in a forum where folks are trying to help new people. Also you may want to understand that using all caps is considered yelling and talking over people, but then maybe you are aware of that.
John
08-09-2009, 06:47 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
external pack short, overcharge or reverse charge gets my votes.
To get a little more info, is this a 500 mah AA nicad?
Charger is 70 ma, right?
To get a little more info, is this a 500 mah AA nicad?
Charger is 70 ma, right?
08-09-2009, 06:52 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
I've not witness severse cases of reverse charge or overcharge , but does either case cause the white material to come out by the + end of the cell?
I have seen many hot batteries and estimate these to be around 300 ° F I agree with flinggeezer that 70 ma will not hurt these cells, and I would also estimate that 180 ma would have gotten to 300 ° easily inside that TX. Would 70 ma in reverse will get to 300 ° F?
I have seen many hot batteries and estimate these to be around 300 ° F I agree with flinggeezer that 70 ma will not hurt these cells, and I would also estimate that 180 ma would have gotten to 300 ° easily inside that TX. Would 70 ma in reverse will get to 300 ° F?
08-09-2009, 06:53 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
ORIGINAL: jim.thornton
ERIC: No need to get insulting... I can't be expected to know these things unless I learn them and I can't remember everything for 4 years while I've been inactive. I knew that battery packs (NiCad & NiMH) didn't last forever and needed to be replaced but people have always told me that they don't last as long.
This Tx battery was still lasting WELL over 1 hr of solid simulator time. I took my plane out on Friday and flew for about 20 minutes. I then came back and fooled around on the simulator for over 1 hour with my son, so how was I suppose to know the thing was toast. I replaced the battery in my plane because I didn't want to take any chances. If I had of thought in a million years that this would have happend, I would have bought a new one for my Tx too.
I think I may have spoken too soon about the charger. It may have played a part too, but maybe not. I have attached 2 new pics.
My charger states on the adapter that it is 70mA and that it is 9.6V. In fact it was outputting at 18.8mA and 8.0V. Could that have added to the situation or still most likely a shorted pack?
DUDE, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? IM GLAD YOU DON'T FLY AT MY CLUB!!!
This Tx battery was still lasting WELL over 1 hr of solid simulator time. I took my plane out on Friday and flew for about 20 minutes. I then came back and fooled around on the simulator for over 1 hour with my son, so how was I suppose to know the thing was toast. I replaced the battery in my plane because I didn't want to take any chances. If I had of thought in a million years that this would have happend, I would have bought a new one for my Tx too.
I think I may have spoken too soon about the charger. It may have played a part too, but maybe not. I have attached 2 new pics.
My charger states on the adapter that it is 70mA and that it is 9.6V. In fact it was outputting at 18.8mA and 8.0V. Could that have added to the situation or still most likely a shorted pack?
08-09-2009, 07:11 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
Okay... Thank you everyone for your help. I'm currently now looking for a new Tx as that battery meltdown destroyed my casing. I wish I could just buy a new back plate.
Eric: I didn't really think that you were insulting me. I was 90% kidding around. Thanks for the sites, I'll review them now.
Eric: I didn't really think that you were insulting me. I was 90% kidding around. Thanks for the sites, I'll review them now.
08-09-2009, 08:44 PM
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RE: What the heck happened??
Jim
I think that is a Futaba Conquest Trans. is it? If so I have a bunch of those around and could probably send you a back plate BUT do you think The Trans. is O.K.
Best Ron
I think that is a Futaba Conquest Trans. is it? If so I have a bunch of those around and could probably send you a back plate BUT do you think The Trans. is O.K.
Best Ron
08-10-2009, 12:55 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
THE WEB SITE TO LOOK UP ? NOBS BATTERIES WILL BRING YOU TO THE WEBSITE.ALSO KNOWN AS HANGTIME HOBBIES.READ THIS FIRST,THEN CHECK SR BATTERIES.
08-10-2009, 07:45 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
ORIGINAL: jim.thornton
My charger states on the adapter that it is 70mA and that it is 9.6V. In fact it was outputting at 18.8mA and 8.0V. Could that have added to the situation or still most likely a shorted pack?
My charger states on the adapter that it is 70mA and that it is 9.6V. In fact it was outputting at 18.8mA and 8.0V. Could that have added to the situation or still most likely a shorted pack?
Even so, this is a C/3 rate at most and shouldn't blow up your battery pack.
I've got an old (1983) Futaba set and a 2008 Futaba set.
The old charger is a simple transformer with a rectifier assembly. It's inheremtly current limited by virtue of the transformer construction.
The new charger is a switch-mode power supply (I believe) and these have electronic limitation of current and voltage.
I don't recognise your pictures ('cos I live in the UK) but it looks to me as though the power supply has changed operating mode to rapid charge or similar because the output voltage is being clamped by the rotten battery. Or it has just failed in a subtle and arcane way. Find a good battery and see how it performs on that. Also, see how it changes rate when the Rx pack is taken off load.
I have a 6V battery pack in one model and the new Futagba charger won't charge it because the output voltage control is set too low so I have to use the old charger. As it's a 2100mAH pack, and the original pack was 500mAH, charging times are quite long!
The TX part of my new charger works equally well on the T7CAH that it came with or the slightly older pack in my much older Challenger 6 Tx.
08-10-2009, 11:23 AM
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RE: What the heck happened??
It was sitting at 9.6V based on the display of the radio. My charger charges at 70mah.
I checked it at 9am this morning and unplugged it
I checked it at 9am this morning and unplugged it
The charger if the multimeter is correct was outputting 180mah. The pack is a 500mah, he left it on charge overnight. That was 9 hours. 9x 180 is 1620.
Know what I've seen knacker batteries up before? Attempting to shunt three times the capacity of the cell in.