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-   -   HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's? (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/batteries-chargers-84/10095281-help-e-flite-balancing-charger-two-1800mah-3s-11-1-not-charging-one-cell-low-bad-lipos.html)

cheyne 10-26-2010 10:50 AM

HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
I am having nightmares that I have been had. I bought a blade 400 with "two flights" and upgraded metal head and tail. The bird arrived looking very well with alot of spare parts. The first flad was that the head was all out of alignment and it took some time and research to get it right.

The next issue came with the two supplied 1800mah 11.1v lipo's. When I hook them up to my computer power supply and initiate a charge from anywhere between 1.0-1.8 amps on the upgraded E-flite balancing charger it will go to an error state saying input voltage low. This happen between 10-30 seconds of charge start. I have managed to get into the cell voltage menu and found that on both batteries, cell on is at approximately 2.3-4 volts. and Cells two and three are equal in the 3.2's. The rest of the balancing screan has not populated with charge time etc. before the error comes. "low input votage". I have verified the charge is at approximately 12v.

Could this just be the power supply and the batteries are fine? Or...I dread to say it. Are the lipos fried sum how.

eddieC 10-26-2010 10:55 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Not sure what the 'upgraded E-Flight balancing charger' is -could you explain, give a model number?

What voltage is the power supply putting out? What voltage does the charger require? Because a 3-cell LiPo will be 12.6V fully charged, your PS should put out more than that to power the charger properly, usually 13.8V or so. You're getting the 'input voltage low' error either because the charger needs more voltage, or the charger isn't working right.

A LiPo at 2.4V can't be saved. Dispose of those 2 packs and get new ones, not worth taking a chance trying to save them.

Since both packs have #1 cell bad, I'd suspect the charger. I've had E-Flight chargers that didn't properly balance/charge 2-cell batts for the CX, they replaced the charger and the ruined packs.

Any chance you could return the stuff to the seller?

cheyne 10-27-2010 10:24 AM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Supposidly the packs are literally brand new. The charger is the E-flight 1-5 cell intelligent balancing charger. I am hoping that the charger is going through a discharge procedure before charging and that my power supply is garbage. Its a computer power supply and it was at 11.4v yesterday when I finally got a good volt meter on it. I am still looking for a good used power supply. I am hoping that I can find one at work from an old laptop. I had one yesterday rated at 18v but it was putting out 20v and the charger is rated for 12-18.

How could both batteries, one never flown be bad already? I call horizon hobby with no response yet.

eddieC 10-27-2010 11:38 AM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Hopefully they'll take care of the packs and charger under warranty. Yes, 11.4V is insufficient. You need 13+V due to a little thing called EMF (electromotive force).
The charger doesn't do a 'discharge' cycle first, it slowly creeps the current up, then maintains a constant voltage. For this reason, it's called a 'constant current, constant voltage' charger (CCCV). Very different from Nicd/Nimh/Lead-Acid, so always charge Lipos as LiPos.
If they've been charged using that charger, I'd really suspect the charger as faulty. And yes, get a good power supply. Call local computer repair shops for a used ATX and convert it. Easy, and low cost.

cheyne 10-27-2010 11:57 AM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Is there any chance that the charge didnt have time to read an accurate cell voltage in the 10-30 seconds that the charge was initiated for?

cheyne 10-27-2010 06:07 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
If I need 13+ volts how will I get that from a ATX power supply? The videos I have seen show those power supplys reaching 12.1v only? Once I get a good power supply that will actually run a charge longer than 30 seconds wont the E-flite inteligent charge tell me that I have a bad cell? If it tells me I do, I will call horizon hobby for a replacement balancer and two batteries.

Let me know about the ATX and 13V volts.

Thanks

eddieC 10-27-2010 08:27 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
I can't recall about the computer charger for sure, afraid you'll have to search the archives. Somebody posted a link recently about the mod, along with weblinks to a couple dedicated power supplies below $60. IF the charger is OK (a big IF at this point), it might tell you it's sensing each cell seperately. Did you check the cells with a voltmeter? Easy to do, just keep each probe apart so you don't short. Sorry I'm not a help on the ATX, will try and look at my files for info.

cheyne 10-27-2010 09:30 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
EddieC,

UPDATE,

I still have not found another power supply (my old computer supply is insufficient) and the universals for 80 is rediculous. I am looking for a laptop supply 15V 4a or so.

I checked the cells.

Battery 1:
3.28
3.62
3.66

Battery 2:
1.81
3.71
3.72

It sounds like the charger is bad (EFLC505) regardless of my power supply working or not. How does one cell go bad on basically new battery?

Can I return them to Horizon for replacment packs and for a replacement balancing charger? Maybe my local hobby shop can do it?

eddieC 10-27-2010 10:39 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
I've seen power supplies cheap on fleabay. Also check craigslist and 'wheeler-dealer' type sale papers.

How to build the ATX PS: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5680951/tm.htm

Another PS build, along with specific details to increase output above 12V:
http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.bat...OWERSUPPLY.HTM

Occasionally a battery goes bad on its own. Remember that Lipos degrade from the day they're made, whether they are used or not. In this case though, I suspect the charger.

I doubt your LHS will handle the return. In the E-Flight manual, there's a phone number for support. I've found their support to be excellent, but be ready with all details of the product transaction - date and location of purchase, your personal data, details of the failure, etc. If you bought it used, go after the seller.

CustomPC 10-28-2010 12:56 AM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Why don't you test the charger by hooking it up to your car battery.

Just about every charger on the market will run just fine off a car battery.

cheyne 10-28-2010 11:57 AM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
The seller replied back saying that the heli was in the box for over a year. Could that have killed the batteries? Should I be liable for that? I could use paypal buyer protection and send it all back, or buy a better battery pack. Without having charged the batteries yet do the above volatages mean that both batteries are shot? If I just buy new batteries and assume the charger is ok (how do I check it) what batteries should I buy?

Thinking 2200mah if thats same with a 25-30c discharge rate. There are some 12 dollar ones on hobbiecity. Will the stock balde electronics handle this much battery?

For a power supply I was thinking of a 15-18v 2-4amp laptop supply with the end cut and soldered onto an old rc car style plug. Is that a safe power supply?

eddieC 10-28-2010 02:02 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Quote:

the heli was in the box for over a year. Could that have killed the batteries?
Might have. If you got a great deal, keep it and buy new batteries. Each cell should be 4.1V-4.2V after a 1C charge. I agree with CustomPC to use a car battery to run the charger, then just charge the car batt.

I don't know how you'd check the charger. We found the CX chargers (2) wouldn't balance the cells, but that was about 4 years ago and I would think your charger is OK.

Check the heli forums for advice on your heli's electronics. Better yet, call Hobby Services. They know much more detail about your heli.

What's your charger call for min/max voltage? Again, that's a great question for Hobby Services (the laptop PS).

Call HS and let us know what you find out.


cheyne 10-28-2010 03:20 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Eddie,

Is a 1c charge 1.8amp? I got a pretty good deal and if those batteries are the best then thats what I will try. What is the number for hobby services? My balancer takes inputs of 12-18v.

Thanks again.

eddieC 10-28-2010 07:20 PM

RE: HELP E-flite balancing charger and two 1800mah 3s 11.1 not charging, one cell low. Bad lipo's?
 
Yes, 1.8A. I don't have the number, should be in your manual or google eflight customer service.


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