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-   -   Confused as can be with chargers. (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/batteries-chargers-84/11292450-confused-can-chargers.html)

jamesfarrell 11-09-2012 06:12 PM

Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Any help is appreciated guys.

I'm starting over, in this hobby, no idea why. It's so so discouraging, not knowing what I'm doing.

I've been looking at chargers for 2 days and I still don't know which end is up.

I was looking at this initially

http://www.progressiverc.com/the-dou...00w-combo.html

But it's going to be about $600 with shipping. That's nuts.

So I'm just wondering if I'd be better off with something like this.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...LXBKAK&P=7

or this.

http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/...-HR-Adapters_2

But I'd need a power supply for that and all the lingo scares me too. (<span style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; white-space: nowrap; background-color: rgb(25, 34, 79); ">JST XH/JST EH/HR) Adapters and</span><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">packs must be GP/KO compatible

What I'm looking to do. I'm looking to chage 1 2s</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ">40C 5000mah Lipo battery 2s and</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ">40C 5000mah Lipo battery 3s for a total of 5s for my savage flux hp

Any help is appreciated.<br type="_moz" /></span><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; "><br type="_moz" /></span>

guver 11-09-2012 07:18 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Welcome to RCU. One other key info is going to be how much current you desire to charge at. If you only want a 1 hr charge or 5 amps then look for a single 5s with 21 voltsx5 amps = 100 watts of power. OR a dual output charger with 60-80 per port.

jamesfarrell 11-09-2012 07:39 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Thanks man, but that's way beyond my comprehension at this point. I have no idea what you are talking about. I tried to read the battery / charger tutorial on here too and my head spun.

Why they have to make this stuff so difficult is beyond me.

I would like a charger, that can charge 2s and 3s 40C 5000mha lipos (2 at a time) in under an hour.

I don't know if I need one that is DC only, or one that is AC or AC and DC

The hobby shop guy was trying to sell me the duratrax

http://www.duratrax.com/chargers/onyx/dtxp4245.html

Seems like it's not that great, but what do I know. Should I bite the bullet and get the

http://www.progressiverc.com/the-double-sidekick-ticket-700w-combo.html<br type="_moz" />

Goldenduff 11-10-2012 01:35 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Batteries have mah and voltage ratings. They also have a C rating. If you mtiply the mah by C that gives you the max amp draw te battery an deliver. A 2C 5000mah battery can deliver 10Amps.<div>
</div><div>They also have a charging C figure. If a battery is 5000mah and rated at 1C charge (default c number) it can be charged at up to 5amps. A 2C battery coul be charge at 10amps.</div><div>
</div><div>The higher the amps the faster it will charge. To charge a 11.1v 5000mah at 1C you will need a charger that can deliver 5amps and about 60w. Pretty cheap an easy. If however you want to charge same battery at 2c you will need a charger that deliver 10amps and about 100w.</div><div>
</div><div>If you start using higher voltage and mah batteries and want to charge them in less than an hour you will need more like 200w and 10amp charger.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

trax de max 11-10-2012 01:46 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
if your charging 2s and 3s you can't use a para board, you can only charge same cell counts with them.
You'll either need to make a series adaptor / use two chargers, or use a multi port charger.

hugger-4641 11-10-2012 08:31 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__7028__Turnigy_Accucel_6_50W_6A_Balancer_Charger_ w_accessories.html<div>
</div><div>http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11758__HobbyKing_Power_Supply_100_240v_5A.html</div><div>
</div><div>These links are to the charger and power supply I started out with and still use. I charge mainly 3cell 2000 to 4000mah packs. With an adapter that I had to make,  I can charge two dead 3cell 2500 mah packs at the same time at 1C with this charger in just a few minutes over an hour. If only charging one pack, you don't need any special adapters and it will charge in under an hour.</div>

guver 11-10-2012 10:47 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesfarrell

Thanks man, but that's way beyond my comprehension at this point. I have no idea what you are talking about. I tried to read the battery / charger tutorial on here too and my head spun.

Why they have to make this stuff so difficult is beyond me.

I would like a charger, that can charge 2s and 3s 40C 5000mha lipos (2 at a time) in under an hour.

I don't know if I need one that is DC only, or one that is AC or AC and DC

The hobby shop guy was trying to sell me the duratrax

http://www.duratrax.com/chargers/onyx/dtxp4245.html

Seems like it's not that great, but what do I know. Should I bite the bullet and get the

http://www.progressiverc.com/the-double-sidekick-ticket-700w-combo.html<br type=''_moz'' />

You have given all the pertinent info. It seems you have a 2s and a 3s pack that you use in series with each other and want to charge in an hr. The desired current is about 5 amps.

For the 2s pack the wattage is figured as 8.4 volts x 5 amps = 42 watts
For the 3s pack it is 12.6 volts x 5 amps = 63 watts

Look for any dual port charger that has at least a 5 amp max and a 63 watt max PER port. The DC or AC part is up to you. You want to run it from the house 110 volt or use 12 volts DC (like in a car)

guver 11-10-2012 10:57 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Progressiv RC is top notch in all categories and I like recommending them. I don't think you need 700 watts just yet though. Perhaps the Onyx 245 would be a perfect stater charger for you right now. It will get the job done nicely.

The 2s pack will charge at about 5 amps just fine and even though each port only does 40 watts the 3s pack will charge just fine too. It will simply take longer (because we wanted 63 watts) It will not hurt anything and will automatically limit your charge current to about 3-3.5 amps even though you have it set for 5 amps. You could plug in the 3s pack immediately and then after getting it started plug the 2s pack into the second port. During the charge the 2s pack would pass the 3s pack up and finish first. Plug it into the esc while waiting for the 3s pack to finish.

I estimate that if the 2s pack takes an hr then the 3s pack will take about 1.3 hrs. If this is too long then you need to get at least 60 watts on the 3s port. Perhaps a 50 watt charger and an 80 watt charger might be nice? I'd start out with the Onyx 245 as it is simple and does do the job.

Good luck with whatever you get.

jamesfarrell 11-10-2012 08:38 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Thanks guys. I ended up getting two 3S 5000mah 20C packs. The HPI flux I think wants 30C.

But I don't know if the guy @ the hobby store is right, he says that you double the 20C since there are two packs, is that right?

Also, to get near 5S with the 2 3S packs, I turned the motor timing to zero with the castle link. I read that online. Does that sound right too, that my 6C setup can sort of turn into a 5C setup by turning the motor timing down.<br type="_moz" />

Goldenduff 11-11-2012 01:52 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
The guy at the shop is right re c rating doubling.<div>
</div><div>Turning the timing down might keep stress etc on gear box down as rpm = volts x kv rating. However if your esc is not rated for 6cell then it WILL pop if using 6cell.</div>

guver 11-11-2012 06:21 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesfarrell

Thanks guys. I ended up getting two 3S 5000mah 20C packs. The HPI flux I think wants 30C.

But I don't know if the guy @ the hobby store is right, he says that you double the 20C since there are two packs, is that right?

Also, to get near 5S with the 2 3S packs, I turned the motor timing to zero with the castle link. I read that online. Does that sound right too, that my 6C setup can sort of turn into a 5C setup by turning the motor timing down. <br type=''_moz'' />
No, your guy is wrong. The rating remains 20C. 6s is still higher voltage than 5s , and backing off the timing will probably slow it down some

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 06:28 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
This is what someone else said. is this correct? <div>
</div><div>"<span style="background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; ">On that C rating, you still have 20C if its in serial.</span><span style="background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; "> </span></div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ">3S 5000 in series = 6S 5000 20C </span><br style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); "/><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ">3S 5000 in parallel = 3S 10000 40c..."</span><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ">
</span></div><div>
</div>

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 06:29 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Is there any downfall to running serial? Any ESC changes I must make?

guver 11-11-2012 06:31 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesfarrell

This is what someone else said. is this correct? <div>
</div><div>''<span style=''background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; ''>On that C rating, you still have 20C if its in serial.</span><span style=''background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; ''> </span></div><span style=''font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ''>3S 5000 in series = 6S 5000 20C </span><br style=''font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ''/><span style=''font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ''>3S 5000 in parallel = 3S 10000 40c...''</span><div><span style=''font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ''>
</span></div><div><span style=''font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(213, 215, 222); ''>
</span></div><div>
</div>
This person is correct except for the 40C part. You are using series packs with your vehicle. If you used them in parallel it would run a very long time , but would be dog slow (good for a kid starting out)

Goldenduff 11-11-2012 08:20 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
I apologise if I confused- was trying to keep it simple. The C rating is a constant for each battery. The combined mah can change depending if parallel or series effectively increasing the max amps that can be delivered.<div>
</div><div>6cell will always be 22.2v regardless of what you do with the timing. If motor and esc are rated for 22.2v you won't have to change them.</div>

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 08:37 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Well, I'm just getting back into this. I was told if you reduce the motor timing to 0 in the ESC that you could mimic 5S

guver 11-11-2012 09:31 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesfarrell

Well, I'm just getting back into this. I was told if you reduce the motor timing to 0 in the ESC that you could mimic 5S
I wouldn't say it that way , but I can see the logic. It would dumb down the 6s pack toward the performance of the 5s pack.

siberianhusky 11-11-2012 10:52 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
WOW tons of very wrong info!
The timing of the esc is dependent on the wind of the motor either a WYE or D wind, get the timing wrong and the motor will run inefficiently or hot, it will not make your motor run like its' on 5s!
It's the exact same as the timing advance on an internal combustion engine. how far before the magnets hits the magnetic pole created by the windings that the current switches.
Different winds have different requirements.
Also running the packs in parallal does not double the C rating, look it up guys! Yes you can draw more amps but you haven't doubled the C rating.
For what you want to do a 200 watt 6s charger will be more than sufficient, and it can run quite happily of a converted PC power supply.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ischarger.html
This will charge a pair of 3s packs in series in well under an hour since you don't run them below 20%. Just need a 3 to 6s series balancing adapter.
The same charger is available from a number of places under different name brands, hobbypartz etc.

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 11:49 AM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
So is running the HP flux motor @ 0 timing wrong? Will it damage anything. I wish I wrote down what the original setting was. Will take a year to figure out the original settings.

2walla 11-11-2012 12:51 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesfarrell

Well, I'm just getting back into this. I was told if you reduce the motor timing to 0 in the ESC that you could mimic 5S
Setting the timing wrong can make your motor melt down. There is a lot of misinformation here. I would suggest you go out and find some guys running the setup you want and see what has actually been working..
C rating is a measure of the batteries ability to hold its rated voltage under a load. It also has nothing to do with the batteries ability stay cool while delivering power-remember you need cooling air. It does you no good to have a 50c battery if you are only pulling 10c from it. What a higher c rating does is allow you to get the current you need out of a smaller sized battery pack. A 20c 5000mah pack should deliver 100 amps and still hold voltage. A 40c 2500mah pack could deliver the same 100amp current for 1/2 the duration and at less weight than the 5000mah pack. The 2500mah pack will run hotter and need more cooling


As far as chargers. I think it is nuts to spend 600 on a charger. What r u using for power? Do you have 110v available? Will you be using you 12v car battery?? I have a a couple of high dollar chargers that are outstanding as well as a $39 accucell charger that does just as good at 1/10 the price. You want to be able to charge you largest pack at least at 1c preferably 2-3c. Most likely 200watts ot output would do. One that can do two packs is nice but that convenience seems to quadruple the single charger price.

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 01:07 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
I bought the duratrax onyx 245 dual lipo charger. and 2 5000 mah duratrax lipos 20 C
When I charged them though it did not say 5000 mah, it said like 2200. I'm not sure why.

As for seeing what guys are running, I'm on my own. All my friends just watch football and drink beer. I like pain, that's why I got into RC.<br type="_moz" />

trax de max 11-11-2012 02:27 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
is that not what was put into the battery 2200mah or roughly about there.

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 02:54 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
I don't know, I should probably read the book.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...bout_smile.gif

guver 11-11-2012 02:59 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: trax de max

is that not what was put into the battery 2200mah or roughly about there.
Yes, they came half charged. ;)

jamesfarrell 11-11-2012 05:13 PM

RE: Confused as can be with chargers.
 
Cool, thank you


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