armody

My Feedback: (10)

Hi y'all

I have a quick question. I have purchased GP's Revolver ARF 40 size. I wanted to install ASP .52 2 Stroke motor which I broke in couple of months ago. Today I was inspecting and looking at all the parts of my Revolver as well as placing the engine on to the mount, I suddenly felt the shaft is slightly may be 16th of an inch back and forth. I can push it backwards toward the engines firewall and pull it out towards me, but 16th of an inch and it does feel it.

Now question is, is it dangerous or not? How can I fix it, or do I have to return it to the dealer where I bought it or I can just fix it and it's a trivial matter. It's ASP .52 2 Stroke Motor/Engine.

Please help me.

Thanks in advance

Mody

MetallicaJunkie

a little play is ok...some companies use lower tolerances....... compare it to other glow engines you have in your fleet....

also pay attention to the color of oil that come out of your exhaust. if its golden colored to dark amber is good....now if its really dark gray or black you have a serious problem

armody

My Feedback: (10)

I have never experienced in any engine, that's the first time I experienced it, despite a lot of old and new engines have gone through my hands, but this was totally new experience to me, and I'm gonna install it on my brand new GP Revolver 40 ARF I purchased as well as Hitec Aurora 9 2.4 Ghz, I'm in no no no mood to lose any plane. So is it ok, it moves little bit back and forth? Is it anyway to fix it in case?

jimmyjames213

My Feedback: (2)

it doesnt matter, its play between the bearings and the crankshaft (if it wasnt for the bearings the crank would be able to slide out a good 1/4 inch)

armody

My Feedback: (10)

MetallicaJunkie, jimmyjames,

Guys Thanks for your responses. I'm satisfied but I have not been answered for one thing. Is it possible to fix this issue?


Mody

MetallicaJunkie

send it back to mfg and see if the warranty will cover it.... u never replied back to the color of your exhaust residue


i suggest taking to your club, and see what your flying buddies have to say.... consider them your own private little RCU

armody

My Feedback: (10)

My apologies MetallicaJunkie

I have not yet installed it and ever since it had been broken in, it hadn't been used. I'm gonna ask for sure my flying buddies very experienced people as well as check out the residue as you mentioned. If nothing works, I'm gonna send it back to the Manufacturer, it's a hassle but it would be taken care of. I bought it from hobbypartz.com

ameyam

Dont want to hijack this thread but what does black oil coming out of the exhaust mean? I have this problem with a relatively unused 55AX. The problem seems to come and go.

Initially, engine didnt want to keep running at idle and I had some black oil after changing through a number of defective glow plugs. I checked everything, nothing is loose. But when I ran it with a new F plug I got no black oil just some amber coloured stuff. After initially trying the F plug and getting a lot of misfiring at full throttle, I went back to a no8 glow and re-tuned the LSN. It ran ok but keeps cutting at some point at part throttle. I had it cut with half a tank of fuel still remaining while still quite low. With insuffiicient altitude, I broke the LG block on my Reactor 46. Luckily I had packed the battery so tightly below the LG block, that prevented further damage. Then I got some black oil again followed by normal oil the next time I ran it after the repairs. Having fixed the LG, I plan to re-fly it tomorrow. Having had a lot of engine issues lately, I will like to understand the problem so I can get it out of my head

Ameyam

raydar

There is nothing wrong with your engine, mount it, fuel it, fly it!. At theprice of these engines dont expect a rolls-royce, if it runs well and is not making any funny noise its all good.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Armody you say that you have not installed the engine, is there a propellor on the engine and tightened up tight aginst the thrust washer when you are checking the endplay if not then this is meaningless.

Now all our engines must have endplay and they will not run properlly without it. However if you truly have 1/16 inch endplay then this is not normal . What is normal will be from almost impercetable and perhaps around a measured 5 thousanths up to say 50 thousanths. Also some engines such as many of the OS use a thin washer behind the thrust driver and this is easily lost. Without it the crank journal (pin) can be pushed back when using a starter and grind aginst the back plate. When this occurs you can easily see the circular grinding aginst it when you remove the backplate.

So is there a washer used with this engine and is it there?

Trying to get parts for that engine is likely hopeless since it is sold strickly as a throwaway so if there is no washer and you cannot find out if it was intended to use one you can try others perhaps from OS or magnum as some of those use the washers.

John

downunder

I see from the photos in [link=http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/asp52_review.shtml]this[/link] web page that the ASP uses flats on the crankshaft to lock the prop driver in place instead of a tapered cone. With this setup the crankshaft can slide inside the bearings a small amount (somewhat like a bushed crankshaft) before a prop is fitted. There should also be a thin steel thrust washer fitted between the prop driver and the crankcase which limits the movement to a very small amount when a prop is fitted but is also necessary when using an electric starter.

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

As John and downunder have mentioned, there needs to be a propellor installed when you check for end play. If you have a prop on it and have 1/16 (approx ) end play, that is way too much.

FWIW the ASP .52 and Magnum .52 XLS blue head are basically the same engines, from the head down, so you should also be able to get parts for your ASP from Hobby People in Calif. (provided they are in stock that is )

John...yes, there is a shim / washer between the crank snout and prop driver.

armody

My Feedback: (10)

I have not installed the engine, nor I checked it with the prop on it. I just wrote a complete reply along with some pictures, and session expired I hate when it happens on rcuniverse.

It does have black washer behind thrust washer. I would try to write down as much as possible, cos I don't know if this time out thing again pops up. I think upon installing the prop, it won't move, and I don't exactly know if it is 1/16th of an inch it could be less, as I'm not very good with fractions. I'm gonna use this motor on my new GP Revolver 40. Anybody has any experience with GP Revolver, as I'm gonna start putting it together.

More experiences are welcome, I'm also gonna ask my buddies at the flying field about this issue.

Thank y'all


Mody

landeck

My Feedback: (1)

Here is a great thread on the small GP Revolver:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6116736/tm.htm

I have the 70 size ready for maidening when the weather turns good.

Bruce

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

That fore / aft movement without a prop is normal...slap a prop on 'er and I'll betcha it goes away...

About the Revolver...
We had 3 of them at the field when they first came out. I don't know if the newest ones are OK or not, but all 3 of the ones we had here had one wing with more incidence than the other. They required quite a bit of aileron trim to correct as a consequence.
The fix was not complicated, but I will not get into that here. (later, if necessary )
You probably should check your wing incidence angles carefully though.

ameyam

In my case the engine seems to have good compression when cold and after it has run a bit and gotten hotter, there doesnt seem to be as much compression. Am still getting the black oil in the exhaust and when hot, the engine doesnt want to seem to start at idle. I will show the more experienced members at the field tomorrow and see if they can percieve the same problem as it cannot be described in words, it needs to be felt

Ameyam

TedMo

I have both the small and large Revolver, both great planes; smaller faster. I use flaperons on small one to slow landings.Enjoy!!

Black oil in exhaust generally means something loose,aluminum rubbing somewhere.

opjose

It's not an "issue". I think this is just the first time you notice it.

I have many different engines from various manufacturers and some have a bit of forward aft play built in.

Others build it in, and eliminate the play with a thin thrust washer... such as the O.S. engines.

With the O.S. engines having the thrust washer is CRUCIAL. If you loose the washer the shaft and piston rod will rub against the back of the crankcase.

The Evolution engines also have a bit of play and because of this, they will produce some shavings when they are broken in.
Once broken in this stops, but the small amount of metal that is removed from the back-plate results in the famous "Grey Goo" new Evolutions produce.
With these engines you COULD install a second back plate washer to eliminate the slight wear.. but it is so slight that if you remove the backplate once the engine is fully broken, you'll see that the wear is VERY slight.

opjose

Yup that's what tends to happen. Some slight play may remain but it's really less than 1/32" or below. You feel a slight click or pop, not a huge movement.

littlera

I have had some experience with a .52 Evo and a .46 Evo. First, my .52 has absolutely no end play in the crankshaft. Definitely something is wrong with yours, and the cause should be found before further operation or you are likely to detstroy it. I would return it. Second, the .46 was mounted on a trainer of a fellow I taught to fly (his plane and engine.) After the second flight or so, we noted VERY black exhaust oil coming from the engine. Closer inspection showed the presence of aluminum particles in the black oil. This was ultimately traced back to a loose muffler tie bolt. This allowed the two halves of the muffler to fret against each other, causing the aluminum particles. Some were also from the aluminum baffle plate inside the muffler, which is free to gall against the muffler castings if the tie bolt is loose. Tightened the bolt, and the black oil / al particles instantly disappeared. Problem solved. This is most likely the source of black oil and / or aluminum particles in the exhaust.

littlera

opjose

Nope not at all.

I've worked with dozens of these engines an this is perfectly normal.
I've talked with Horizon about this too. There is a bit of play by design.

As you've noted the aluminum particulates create the "gray goo" the Evolutions are noted for producing during break in.

After about a gallon or so of fuel the engine stops doing this altogether.

littlera

Actually, my bad. I thought the original post was about an Evo, not ASP. Don't know about play spec of an ASP of this size (I have an old ASP 90 2 stroke that has never been run, and it has no play, but this is the only one I have ever had) but an EVO .52 has none.

The EVO will produce black oil and aluminum powder any time the muffler parts are loose, as would any other engine. I didn't actually see any residue until the muffler loosened, and never any from my EVO .52.

littlera

armody

My Feedback: (10)

Guys

First of all Thank you very much for your responses on Revolver and on the main topic Play in the crankshaft of ASP .52 2 stroke engine. As far as my revolver is concerned I'm gonna start putting it together and follow the instructions more carefully. I have learned my lesson of fluttering thru Escapade. Secondly I think Hangar 9's Sundowner 40 and Great Plane's Revolver 40 pretty much have the same flight characteristics. Both are good planes and I'd try follow accurately and I hope that my new Hitec Aurora 9 and Optima 7 would handle Revolver pretty well.

Main topic ASP .52 engine. When I was breaking in, I did have a lot of thick oil glueeee kinda stuff or gunk coming out it was pretty much light bright very very light brown in color or pretty much colorless, engine ran very good, and I think that I broke in pretty good, but after couple of flights it would perform better. I have also been advised by one of my friend here on rcunivers, it does not mean y'all aint my friend, the advise was to use Merlin 2000 hot glow plugs, as I have been using O.S. no 5 or 6 hot plugs which are known as A5 or A6 pardon me if I'm wrong. I wanna use Merlin glow plugs for full good compression, I heard a lot of great things about Merlin glow plugs. Jett Engineering of Houston, TX also use in the race engines Merlin. Anyway, back to the topic, I took out my motor just to take a look at it after I have bought my Revolver, so see how it fits and looks on it., then I suddenly started feeling the plan and slight movement in crankshaft which kinda threw me off, as I never experienced anything like that. So with your all great inputs, it's a trivial thing, and ain't gonna be a pain in the neck in future on my new plane or should I simply return it the vendor and get another motor, or just go with the flow? Cos different people have different experiences, but I have not yet come to the conclusion whether to keep the engine or not and installing it on Revolver.

I'm all ears guys !!!!

Mody Khan

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

The play is called end play. Put a prop on it and tighten it down then check it. If there is a problem it will show up on the back plate. Just remove the four screws holding that on and look at it. There will usually be some slight swrils on the back plate. If it has deep grooved swirls then you have a problem.
The dark gray mater in any new engine is just the metal of the engine getting worn in, they all do it. If it's an old engine then there will be more and more, darker and darker as the engine is wearing out. Loose end play and the gray mater blowing out the pipe tends to freak out people that have just bought new engines. If the engine is real tight there will be more of it. Just normal. This bit of metal will often tend to help burnout glow plaugs quicker, just normal. Rebuild an old engine and it will happen again, normal. Have a loose muffler or muffler baffle and you will see a big bunch of gray mater.

RCER88

My Feedback: (25)

If you have not mounted a prop all this is a moot point. Install a prop and then check it. Some play is ok. You want a little "give" when the prop is installed and tight.

Sounds to me like you are panicking over a "non issue".

The ASP is an OS clone. The old design castings sold by OS to other companies when OS redesigned. So the ASP and Magnum are really decent engines. Years ago OS sold many of its older castings so that is why ASP and Magnum are in exsistance.