crash bandicoute

i know this is probably against everyone's better judgement (somewhat including my own), but i have a friend at work that wants to get into flying, but doesn't have the liquidation fundage to get a couple of planes. what is everyone's take on learning to fly on the tiger 2 or 4*40, or something along those lines? i usually push for a regular trainer, as well, but am not good enough myself to get him on a buddy box with one of mine. or maybe too nervous. i don't know.neither of us are currently in a club, as the closest is about 45 mins driving. i fly at a lions club that has about 6 soccer fields. maybe 8. never counted all the goalie boxes. with a good instructor at a club on a buddy box, would it be too much to learn? he's a jet mechanic also, so we both know how planes and aerodynamics work, he's just never been on the sticks.

el_xero

My Feedback: (2)

all i can say is 1) read read read 2) get a sim and practice practice practice 3)read read read 4) watch as many vids as you can get your hands on! there are free sims out there you can use FMS comes to mind sure it looks like crap but I learned on that thing its great for orientation for sure and thats one of the most important skills which you should have down pat especially since you're planning on starting with a low wing... My opin is that its not impossible to do (most will not advise that you start there) but it is very possible to get good with a low wing as your first plane. I personally started flying with delta wings in real life and first learned to land a low wing on a sim before i ever flew a trainer, I was well informed and my backround in aviation already made it so i understood enough about flight to do so...

in a nutshell
my opin?

get a sim practice and prepare before you take off know every thing you possible can before you do so and get help from some one who has flown proficiently especially when you're gonna do your ground work with tuning a new engine breaking in etc.

hope that helps.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Personally, I prefer to train on a Tiger 2 or 4*

Back in the "old days" when we had to swap the transmitter, a slow, stable plane was preferred so we had a few extra seconds to grab the box when a student got in trouble, but nowadays that's not a factor.

A typical high-winged, flat-bottom airfoil with a good amount of dihedral has a lot of self-righting tendencies, which can be good, but it also means that while the student is learning the controls, he is also having to fight an airplane that wants to fly straight and level. With an advanced trainer like the Tiger / 4*, he has a go-where-you-point-it airplane that is still relatively docile.

Yep, I'll train on one of those planes in a heartbeat

jester_s1

He might consider an ugly stick if he just wants to go ahead and have a sport model. They are great in the wind and can be set up docile and trainer like all the way up to doing mild 3D. They are also easy to fix.

blueapplepaste

My Feedback: (5)

I agree with Minn. I remember when I went from a trainer to my 2nd plane, a lot of things I was doing on my trainer to fly it I didn't need to do on the new plane (i.e. fighting its self righting characteristics). So some things I felt like I took a step back or two and had to re learn them and adjust.

With a buddy box, and hopefully a simulator, I see no issue with it at all.

SharpProp

I was just going to recommend a stick as Jester did above. I have an ultrastick 40 that is probably my favorite beat around plane. It doesn't mind the wind and it will slow down to a crawl. But when you turn the rates up and hit the throttle, it can be a hoot. The "crow feature will let it harrier in a head wind and is a lot of fun to do. This is a great second plane, but if set up properly it could be a great trainer. Good luck.

WestCoastFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Like most people I started out on a trainer. Within a half dozen flights crashed and destroyed it, (the agony of my first RC kit reduced to infinitesimally small tiny sticks, but no crying) then went directly to a Das Ugly Stick.

I enjoyed the Stick more than the trainer and found it much easier to fly. I never liked the self-righting characteristics of dihedral. I once had a Mini-Pulse and that little airplane drove me crazy, too much dihedral.

Having said all that I still love to fly my LT-40. I have it underpowered with a 40 LA, it's fun.

Anyway, yeah, what they said.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I have taught on both the stick and 4*, both were just fine as a trainer. A FYI, if you hook up your friend with a buddy box and teach him it will make you a much better pilot. By teaching you have to go through all the basics over and over again. Then you get to the point you are just standing there with your finger on a switch telling him what you want him to do with the plane, very dull when a student is almost ready to solo.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

One point I would like to make here. If the Tiger II is good then the Tiger 60 is better. If the Four Star 40 is good then the Four Star 60 is better. Why? Visibility is the main thing. And, the plane flys slightly slower than the smaller model which gives a bit more time to react to aircraft behavior.. although I must admit, and Minnflyer and Gray Beard are right on with this, the plane, if taught properly, will make an outstanding trainer.

My second plane was a Tiger 60. I learned so much from that plane. I could see my inputs and react accordingly. For example, I was coming in for a landing one fine day and the plane was right in front of me about, oh, 5 feet high and coming in for a landing. I added a very slight input to the elevator to flare the plane and I could SEE the plane react to it and adjust my input to make an absolutely perfect landing. From that day on, I continued to watch my landings, and pretty much everything else, very closely, and the size of that great aircraft, made that possible.

CGr.

mike109

G'day

I agree with Grey Beard. There is an old saying -

"The best way to learn a subject is to teach it."

I have recently been doing some instruction because there simply was no one else. My students have all been "mature". The youngest was about 45 and the oldest is about 65. So I took on the job simply because there was no one else to do it. I used my Kadet Senior initially and it worked well. But the main thing to come out of all of this is that I have become a far more competent and confident pilot. When you are teaching, you have to understand the subject and you get a far better understanding by trying to impart the knowledge to someone else.

My first student is now flying fun fly models and is currently putting an Extra together. He can now fly quite well though he is still learning about checking things. He is also learning (the hard way) not to reef his models into the air. He has a tendency to try to power his models off the ground with too much elevator and power and it has bitten him twice lately.

My other students are still flying their own Kadets and have not soloed yet. One built his Kadet from a plan, the other from a kit. Both have grand ideas about the planes they want to build and fly. One has already started collecting parts to build a 60 inch Lancaster 4 engined WWII bomber. I think he has a few models to build before he will fly that though. The other too wants to build scale models and I have been diverting him to simpler models to practice on. I am going to try to get them to build a Stick, Four Star or Tiger as their next plane to actually fly. It won't be easy to convince them. I have Four Star 40, 60 and 120 models and I think I will give them a fly of the 60 once they are ready for it to tempt them in this direction. I also have a couple of sticks and will let them have a go on one of them too.

Cheers

Mike in Oz

crash bandicoute

sweet. i'm all over it then. i wish i would have learned on one of the low wing planes. i kind of want a tiger myself, so maybe i can get him to let me fly it when complete. i already have a wing built and ready to cover, SLIGHTLY modified for bigger ailerons and flaps, for the 4*. each half of what the ailerons used to be. thanks. i wasn't sure how much it would or wouldn't be against better judgment. i have had a lot of fun on my trainers, though. sometimes seeing how slow i can get it without stalling is interesting.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

May I suggest that if he is determined not to spend the time or money to find an experienced pilot, then spend the time and money looking into the FMA Copilot system. Its an inflight stabilization system that looks at horizontal and vertical. It will restore the plane to straight and level flight from any attitude. Our club tried the system on a small trainer, and it really does work. As an experiment, we lined the trainer up with the runway and cut the throttle. The plane actually landed safely hands off.

Now its not going to teach all the other things a pilot needs to know to be safe (preflights, balance, trimming, etc) and it might actually mask some bad habits, so be careful. But it could be a worthwhile investment to save money on replacing airframes.

Brad

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Brad: Is that different from the system that is installed on the Hobbico Nexstar Select? The reason I ask is most instructors disconnected it after the first few orbits of the very first flight. I learned without it, and after I solo'ed, I hooked it up and found it to be a real PITA, so I disconnected it and eventually took it out and sold it.

CGr.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

The FMA system is VERY different from the hobbico system. The FMA system uses sky temperature and ground temperature, and doesn't suffer the low sun angle confusion or cloud problems the Hobbico system does. Further, the FMA system has two sensor units (horizontal and vertical) that allow the plane to pull and roll out of abnormal attitudes. The system has a function that you can tie to a transmitter channel that permits realtime adjustment of the system gain to change the feel. Its more expensive, obviously, but its also more flexible. The system also includes a 3-D mode that you can switch on to help learn 3-D maneuvers.

Brad

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Cool!

jimmyjames213

My Feedback: (2)

if you dont have the fundage and wand a good flying plane www.spadflyer.com has some awsome planes for cheap. they are spads but fly similer to the "big stick" type planes (more of a second plane than a trainer....its kinda the middle step), they are also much more durable and are cheap to replace if need be

jimmyjames213

My Feedback: (2)

im surprised they spent the time reasearching that (or hobbico's thing) when a gyro can do the same thing for relitivly cheap

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

A gyro opposes change in direction. Very different from what the FMS is.

CGr.

jimmyjames213

My Feedback: (2)

depends on how its programmed, i know that small UAV's use cheap 3 axis gyros to keep themselves flying strait and level, it wouldnt be terribly hard to do.

TomBates

According to the AMA there are four clubs within 21 miles of you. I think it would be helpfull to contact one of them as I'm sure they have instructors. Good luck.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

Tom