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  1. #26
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?


    ORIGINAL: willig10

    I wonder how long he has been instructing. He may be bored with slow flight and if this is the case, your not getting any benefit from it. I am assuming your on a buddy box? If he has given you control on each channel when you ''take it'' simply roll the throttle off to where you deem comfortable.

    When your flying it is ''your'' bird. When the instructor is flying it is ''his'' bird.

    I would let him know you want to explore ''slow flight'' and see what his reaction is. If he is hesitant or ignores you. It is time to get a new instructor.

    I have been flying RC since 1984 and I still dont like flying at full throttle all the time. It is too much work. I like doing aerobatics etc but just turning the pattern at full throttle is no fun at all.

    You need to learn slow flight so you can recognize what the airplane is doing and how it reacts to control input and this will get you ready for the landing as well.

    Wish you well.

    Glenn Williams

    Absolutely right on. The throttle was put there for a reason. It's not an on-off switch. If you fly full throttle all the time, there is no room for "maneuvering" with the throttle to get out of trouble. Heck, you would be so far behind the aircraft that you would probably never see a problem when it is coming.

    I was taught to open the throttle on take off, while watching the plane, and slowly (not full closed to full open in one quick stroke is what I mean) open the throttle to the point where you have both control of the aircraft as well as allowing it to gain proper airspeed for take-off. Then, after a few moments, as it gains airspeed, slowly reduce it to the point where you are comfortable, usually about half, then trim out the plane for straight and level flight at that setting. Then fly the plane, not let it fly you.

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  2. #27
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?


    ORIGINAL: AA5BY

    I'll add my voice to say that the instructor is disregarding the important fundamental of providing as much reaction time as possible during the learning process. Everyone recalls their first flight where they were exhausted in the first five minutes.... because in part we got mentally overloaded. More reaction time lowers the mental load and eases the learning process.

    I'd pull the throttle back and find my comfort zone and trim the plane for level flight at that speed. If the instructor objected, I'd find another.

    The other issue is that likely the instructor is trimming the plane for full power and as others have noted, trainer planes normally climb at full power. This means that when reducing power, the plane is out of trim and will tend to dive for the runway rather than displaying a good landing glide path and will make landing a lot harder (emphasis) than it needs to be. No old hat pilot wants to land a plane that doesn't establish a proper landing glide path because having to deal with pitch when added to keeping the wings level, alignment with runway, and proper throttle for correct air speed soon present mental overload to even many seasoned pilots.

    An example of overload. I recently completed a Yak that was out of trim between even mid range power and power off. Combined with that, the throttle was far too sensitive in the low power range where a narrow band of power was needed to keep the prop from braking the plane too much but keep air speed proper for landing. It was a challenge to land because it overtaxed me. Add a gust of cross wind on the large vertical stab to induce sudden roll close to the ground, and it was tough.

    After getting the plane in trim for power on/off flight and reducing the throttle stick sensitivity in the low power zone, life got so much better and landings are enjoyed instead of feared.

    You got into this hobby probably to enjoy flight.... not fear it. My bet is that if you speak frankly to the instructor about this and ask him to trim the plane for a slower speed... he will comply.


    Heck, we had a guy at our club that never trimmed his plane.. didn't really know how. He was all over the sky. I asked him if he trimmed it out and he said he was to busy trying to fly the thing that he didn't have time. I asked him if I could help him out.. he handed me the transmitter.. it took me a few moments to figure out what was going on, but I got it set for him, straight and level, with "hands off". After that, he was a happy camper.. until he changed throttle settings and never returned to that point.

    He usually has a very difficult time with landings because his plane is usually so far out of trim, that landing seems an afterthought. But, at least it was close after I helped him out. Then, when he tried to land it, he was amazed at how much easier it was to land after it was trimmed up properly.. heck it originally had roll as well as yaw in the trim the way it was, I don't know how he even managed to get it off the ground. But, after proper trim, he was able to l and it smoothly.

    He then asked me to show him how to trim.. I asked him if his instructor ever taught him how to trim. He said he was self taught.

    I showed him how to go about it.. and he was amazed at the difference it made.

    Need I say more?

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  3. #28
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?


    ORIGINAL: tennessee_

    Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    I've just started my flight training with a local club instructor. My nitro 60" high wing trainer with seems to fly faster than I can keep up with and the instructor insists on flying at close to full speed, he says if we slow it down it will take me twice as long to learn. I'm getting frustrated because of this. Is this the normal/usual way it is done?

    Thank you.
    He may be a great pilot but instructional technique requires you adjust your teaching to a level comfortable to the student..

    He needs to listen to you for feedback as much as you need to listen to him for advice... seems like he is not doing it..

    Either approach him as a mature man and request he instruct you at your pace..

    Why is he rushing you to learn faster? Learn at your pace.. if it takes twice as long it does not matter... at least you will enjoy the process..

    if he doesn't listen, find a new instructor..
    My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my planes for what I told her they cost.

  4. #29

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    every CLUB has a instructor thats a show off, you need to fly at your rate not his, hes there to help, sounds like hes the one who needs help...........

  5. #30

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?


    ORIGINAL: G.Barber

    Find a different instructor. The fact that he wants you to "learn" flying at close to full throttle is absurd! Flight training should be as close to comfortable as possible, as well as fun! If it's not fun, you'll have a much harder time staying with the sport.

    This is just my two cents- take it for what it's worth...
    Ditto!

    Sometimes, things are exactly as they appear to be.

  6. #31

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    There's a lot of good advice here. The main concensus is right; slow down. There are a couple of things your instructor is doing that really bother me. The first is saying that you'll learn faster by flying faster. That has no basis in fact. Slower flight is more difficult, though it still isn't hard. As long as you stay above stall speed, you should fly at a comfortable speed. The second thing is that he should see that you are getting "behind" the plane. Any good instructor should be able to tell when the student is chasing the plane. They react to what the plane is doing instead of telling it what to do. The cure for that is to pull the throttle back a bit. Things don't happen as fast at lower throttle settings, giving the student more time for input.
    Is your instructor a member of RCU? Instead of just running off and getting a new instructor, just have him read this thread. If we don't change his method, we'll be doing this whole thing all over again with the next person he "takes under his wing". If you're on a buddybox (and I hope you are) just throttle down. The worst that can happen is that he'll take the plane back. Tell him you want to learn to fly more slowly, as that's the way you intend to fly most of the time.
    Just when does he intend to put stalls and stall recognition into the plan? you'll need to be flying at idle, or slightly above, to get the plane to stall. If he's not going to teach you this, then a new instructor is definitely in order. No pilot can fly safely if they can't see a stall coming on. Any instructor that allows a pilot to solo without stall training is doing a disservice to everybody.
    I don\'\'t enjoy getting older, but it sure beats the alternative.

  7. #32

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    I am just now getting back into the hobby since '83 so my opinion may not matter....but that has never stopped me before. I would definately find another instructor unless this one is willing to back down on the throttle. The instructor I am working with is always making sure that I am comfortable with what we are doing. The only thing that worried me at first is that he wanted me to fly in some winds that were keeping most the other people grounded. I have to admit though if I can learn to fly in wind it sure can't hurt me in calmer weather. He even had me practiing "floating" Sunday. A few of the guys were saying they didn't see what good that did, I on the other hand thought not only was it fun but was making me use all the controls and constant small adjustments. Starting to think floating is a great way to get use to handling the sticks again..just my 2 cents...
    Inept Corpse
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #130

  8. #33
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Well, the only comment I have to that is you really have to learn to crawl before you can learn to walk. Flying in high winds is not necessarily good for the training session because, as a beginner, you really can't tell what the wind is doing vs. what you are doing with the sticks. It takes some time.

    With that said, I recall flying with some pretty good winds when I was in training. I managed, with the help of my instructor, of couse, on the buddy box. He seemed to have it more than I did for a while, there, but I eventually got the hang of it. BUT.. all was done "three mistakes high" in altitude. How high is that? Well, your instructor can explain that better than I can, but basically, high enough that you can make a mistake and have plenty of air under you to recover.... and flying at full throttle, well, that may need four or five mistakes high!!!!

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  9. #34
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Get a new instructor.  One of the first things you should be learning ( right after being able to fly around in an oval straight and level at moderate speeds) is how to fly around very slow, just above a stall.  Many do not bother this and try to solo the student too fast.  Then they wonder why the student stalled and spun the plane in weeks after soloing.  You also need to learn to take off on minimum power without stalling.  Many put in too much elevator and never let the plane get up to a good flying speed.

    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  10. #35

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    No worries there and we were on the buddy box and atleast 2 or 3 mistakes high. We had flown the day before (with his trainer and my Kavalier 40) in nice calm weather without problems. He is a great trainer and is will to take time with anyone that wants to learn and modifies his style to their skill level. Can't wait for this weekend, I think I have the overheating of my Kavalier engine taken care of and might even have my 40 trainer ready as well.
    Inept Corpse
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #130

  11. #36
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Tell your instructor he is such an amazing pilot that he intimidates you and you don't think you could ever fly like him.... Then get another instructor so you can actually learn something.


    Brian
    N Central Regional Director
    Classic Pattern Association

  12. #37
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    ORIGINAL: scooterinvegas
    Who's your instructor, Ricky Bobby?
    Ok, that's funny! LOL


  13. #38
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    I don't like flying at high throttle ever, butmost days it was quite windy at our local field. I can count only 2-3 days when it was an calm day. It was just that kind of spring and summer. Watched the plane fight against the wind then quickly turn down wind.

    Jim
    ORIGINAL: CGRetired

    Well, the only comment I have to that is you really have to learn to crawl before you can learn to walk. Flying in high winds is not necessarily good for the training session because, as a beginner, you really can't tell what the wind is doing vs. what you are doing with the sticks. It takes some time.

    With that said, I recall flying with some pretty good winds when I was in training. I managed, with the help of my instructor, of couse, on the buddy box. He seemed to have it more than I did for a while, there, but I eventually got the hang of it. BUT.. all was done "three mistakes high" in altitude. How high is that? Well, your instructor can explain that better than I can, but basically, high enough that you can make a mistake and have plenty of air under you to recover.... and flying at full throttle, well, that may need four or five mistakes high!!!!

    CGr.
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #30

  14. #39
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

      My students learn to fly the plane at the throttle setting which keeps it flying level with few inputs after it's been trimmed.
    Exactly!  There will be a throttle setting below which the airplane will stall, and above which the airplane will still fly, but very slow. 

    I agree with the others that you shouldn't have to learn the instructor's bad habits. Kick that fool to the curb! 
    I might not be very good, but I'm fun to watch!

  15. #40
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    My advice would be (for what it's worth) to have a very calm and friendly conversation the next time you go to the field before you guys put the plane in the air. Explain to him that he has you flying so fast that you are behind the plane and it bothers you. Give him a chance to understand your feelings and adjust to them. If he is unwilling to adjust to your needs then start looking for another instructor. Don't let him run you out of a fine hobby. And HE needs to adjust to YOUR NEEDS, not the other way around.
    \"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is\"

    Intolerance is not to be tolerated

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?


    ORIGINAL: JimmyZep

    I flew my .46 trainer a couple weeks ago and at 1/2 throttle it seemed
    like it was going 200mph.

    1st flight, I know things will slow down in a bit. But why on earth would you want to go
    full speed at 1st, makes no sense to me.

    Hope to fly tomorrow after work. Some take offs and landings I hope.

    Jimmy

    so long way away from a scale flying pitts ?

  17. #42

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Loose the so called instructor!

  18. #43
    378's Avatar
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Why is Jeremy Clarkson teaching you to fly?
    My stash:
    1 rally modded NTC3, 1 HeliMax Axe CX Nano, 1 Hobbico NexSTAR.

  19. #44

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    I soloed about a year ago and i would tell that instru. to get lost and find you another one remenber the faster you go the faster you need to react yes you need to fly closer but not at full throttle . tell the instru. that if his in that big off a hurry that maybe he shouldn't be training.good luck

  20. #45

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Flying faster is the worse thing to do while training. You are flying point to point like a missile instead of like a plane. Your control is not precise it is more of a correction along a heading. I have had some of my students shooting approaches and after they missed a few they get back into the pattern again at high speed for a go around only that by the time they slow down they have already messed up the approach with there speed and they get agrivated and go around again at high speed again. No learning is done doing this. I usually take control back and fly for a few minutes until they calm down. High energy and high speed are advanced training after soloing a trainer or for performing some basic aerobatics like a loop until you are coming down the backside of the loop

  21. #46

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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    Politely tell your instructor to take a hike.

    It's hard to learn new things to learn new things. That being said, starting slow then working your way up will always be the best option.
    My dad recently started flying and he spent at least 3 months on a simulator before he even attempted to fly. The first time he went to the field he buddy boxed with an instructor and, honestly he didn't need the instructor. His takeoff was decent and his landing was perfect. And everything in between was smooth and coordinated.

    But since it doesnt seem like you've spent much time on a sim you really need to practice slow flying. You gotta have the basics down before you start rippin through the sky.

  22. #47
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Is My Trainer Plane Too fast?

    The whole point here is to remind folks that flying at full throttle out of the starting gate is probably not a good thing to do. Instructors should be aware of that. There is just no way a new student pilot can get ahead of the plane, or even keep up with it for that matter, by trying to fly at full throttle.

    One second it's doing one thing, then suddenly it's doing another while the pilot is trying to settle in to what it was doing the previous second. Things happen that fast at times, and at full throttle, regardless of the aircraft, that is one precious second, and anything can and will happen during that one quick second.. or the two or three seconds it takes for the new pilot to realize that he/she is in trouble and, well, that trash bag can be a real drag when putting it in the trunk of the car after the clean-up.

    The bottom line here is that instructors really have to mold their technique to fit the situation, which usually means slow and steady. The student has to have time to see what's going on and react to it. This is where the practice comes in. We begin to react automatically to a situation once it develops, but we need to train to do that.. it does not come to us via osmosis or mind melding, it comes to us by continued practice.

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!


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