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Old 04-21-2011, 07:11 AM
  #26
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ORIGINAL: tryingagain

I hope you are wrong about the Eagle, it is one of my favorites and my son is currently building the Eagle 2 kit. They do seem to be sweeping all things Goldberg off the market though.
I like the look of the Wingman but I watched one of the guys at our club learn on a Stik. It worked out well for him and he has been able to dial it up a notch as he has become more experienced. If you can't find an Eagle ARF my vote would be the Stik with the 91 on it.

I am not quite sure why you would go out and buy Lipos and a charger if you have everything you need for glow on hand.

I have nothing against electric flyers as I am a firm believer in each to their own. That being said, and to paraphrase the NRA, you can have my glow set ups when you pry them out of my cold dead fingers. I love the smell, the sound and even the clean up.


Cheers

Gord
Lol... I get the love of it all... except the clean up... loving it seems a bridge too far.

I'm not into electrics... cuz I like sound... however, I love gas... cuz very little clean up.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:12 AM
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Your going to have him on a buddy box. Why not a Falcon 56? Shoulder wing and a good flyer. Then you can put more throws in the controls and make it an intermediate aerobatics trainer. I use one for a trainer with success.

I am not a fan of the PTS planes either. I have seen them fly too. Not impressed.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:17 AM
  #28
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ORIGINAL: jhatton

I can usually build a Lt-40 kit in a weekend then another one to cover it... my daughters Lt-40 was built in a weekend flown the following weekend with a TT-46, then last fall I pulled the TT out and converted it to electric.
I haven't built an LT-40 but have an LT-25 and like you found the build to be very quick.

However, out of respect for the OP, he asked about an arf.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:25 AM
  #29
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ORIGINAL: AA5BY


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tryingagain

I hope you are wrong about the Eagle, it is one of my favorites and my son is currently building the Eagle 2 kit. They do seem to be sweeping all things Goldberg off the market though.
I like the look of the Wingman but I watched one of the guys at our club learn on a Stik. It worked out well for him and he has been able to dial it up a notch as he has become more experienced. If you can't find an Eagle ARF my vote would be the Stik with the 91 on it.

I am not quite sure why you would go out and buy Lipos and a charger if you have everything you need for glow on hand.

I have nothing against electric flyers as I am a firm believer in each to their own. That being said, and to paraphrase the NRA, you can have my glow set ups when you pry them out of my cold dead fingers. I love the smell, the sound and even the clean up.


Cheers

Gord
Lol... I get the love of it all... except the clean up... loving it seems a bridge too far.

I'm not into electrics... cuz I like sound... however, I love gas... cuz very little clean up.

OK. Maybe love is a little strong. I really don't mind it though. I find wiping the plane(s) down before stowing them back in the car oddly cathartic.

Gord
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:25 AM
  #30
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Too bad about your LT40. That's what I learned on and still like to fly it around for the first few flights of the year to work the kinks out of my thumbs. Get that kit out and glue her together. Have the #1 grandson help you since he had a hand in the first one's demise.

The PTS isfine with all the trainer gear dumped. I plopped a .70 4-stroke in mine with a big 3-blade prop and she flew great.It's sitting on the shelf with all the gear stripped cannibilizedfor another project.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:51 AM
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ORIGINAL: LSP972


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ORIGINAL: on_your_six

Why not look around and see the world is moving to electric?
Why do some of you electric guys have to assume an air of superiority?
Don't worry it tends to pass as they mature.

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Old 04-21-2011, 07:55 AM
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:56 AM
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ORIGINAL: LSP972

... who hang out here, helping newbies... please forgive the length of this inquiry, but you'll see why. I posted this query in the newbie/beginner forum because the veterans here will be most up-to-speed on the topic of viable trainer models.
//SNIP//
So I go to the LHS and check out the various Empire trainers; Hobbico AviStar, NexStar, Tower Trainer, etc. Not impressed with any of those (nor the few ''off-brand/economy'' offerings), either, for various reasons.

So, here's the question: What else is out there? The new offering of the TameCat looks intriguing, but I'm betting its squirrelly on the ground; and everybody seems to be out of stock, anyway.

Have I missed anything? All I want is a simple high D-tube wing and box fuselage, that is light enough to fly on an old O.S. 40FP. I'll make a taildragger out of it, and as soon as the kid is competent with it he can try his P-51 again. Wish I had the time to build that LT40, but that just isn't in the cards now. I need SOMETHING, before the kid loses interest.

Help me out here, guys... I've run slap out of options.

Mr. LSP972:

If you do wish to have a trainer that will provide good qualities to train with the OS 40, then here is the one. I have one that has been in use since I don't remember when. When it was war-weary after some 5 years old, a youngster finally caught me not quick enough to respond, at low altitude and it went in nose first even breaking the wings apart and demolishing the nose. I rebuilt it and it has again been active especially in the AMA TAG events that my club Jetero RC sponsors several time a year. It also serves in club fun-flys and on occasion a refresher for landing practice for me. I have a brand new one in a box in the barn still waiting for it to be needed. Now some 8 years old, using a well worn old Super Tigre .40. I use 11-4 or 5 black fiber props for training and most sport flying. My grandson soloed out with it when he was 14 years old and is now 18. He got caught up in that "G&G disease" and doesn't fly now. (G&G = Gas and Girls )

You stated that you are not impressed with these however If you will allow objectivity to override prejudice, either of these two models will serve your purpose.

They are the Tower Trainer Mark II, and/or the Superstar 40, actually the same as the TTM II. They are excellent when not overpowered. As a builder for since the late '40s it is easy for me to build for a plug-in front and 2 bolt rear wing saddle. If you can do that I highly recommend such.

Regardless of all the other hype you might read, and you don't want to build, I strongly recommend the above trainers. THEY WORK and will do the job. There are many that also work. I have a built-up Sig Seniorita that is excellent, again powered with an old ST 40. To make it excellent, I built in 1.5" X 9" barn-door ailerons inset 3" from the end of each wing tip. Makes that a whole 'nother machine.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:26 AM
  #34
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ORIGINAL: CGRetired

Did I miss something or am I just dense. What is an ''Empire trainer''?

CGr
From context, I believe what is being referred to here is Tower Hobbies/Great Planes.

BTW, I would vote for the Hobbico Avistar too. I've owned about (7) of them, and regret selling (6) of them after I sold them (to free up hanger space). The 7th my son unintentionally tried to thread through some 100 year old trees. Save the engine and the radio, the rest became tree fertilizer!
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:31 AM
  #35
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ORIGINAL: CGRetired

Did I miss something or am I just dense. What is an ''Empire trainer''?

CGr
A trainer sold by The Evil Empire; aka Great Planes/Tower Hobbies. That name got hung on them 10 or more years ago, after they got big enough to start buying up smaller firms and absorbing same into The Empire... usually, all but the most profitable items that firms had then simply go away.

.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:35 AM
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Empire Trainer
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:21 AM
  #37
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I have had many newbes come to the field with fast trainers but the best trainer i have ever taught a newbe on is this one. http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGRC58ARFB.html .It will do loops and slow rools but it just flys so slow to give them time to think. When they are done training with it they can put a candy drop in it or mount floats for water use. With a 80 inch wing it is easy to see also. joe
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:00 AM
  #38
John Casey
 
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Teach him.... to build....then.... to fly..just like you did.

http://www.rcmplans.com/
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:39 PM
  #39
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I'm with the guys who recommend the Tower trainer series, preferably the .60. They are superb fliers and tough as nails. Since you will be buddy boxing and want to start with something a bit sportier, the four star series is great. Wind doesn't seem to bother them much and they fly like they're on rails.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:13 PM
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Ken Kehlet
 
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Hi,

Check out WORLD MODELS ARF Trainer for $99.00 Available in most Hobby Shops.

WINGMAN .40 Size with 60" wing.

Regards,

Ken AMA 1528
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:04 PM
  #41
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Default RE: To the old salts...

TO THE Original Poster:
I have only read your opening statement. If I may offer up some advice? Here goes.

First and foremost: Please remember this. This will be your Grandsons first foray into the RC world. I would suggest that you dont get too wrapped up in how an airplane looks. You may have been in the RC community for awhile and a trainer is way far behind you. Your Grandson on the other hand just needs to learn how to fly on a stable, forgiving and slow airplane.

Even though you will be buddy boxing with him, he is gonna think that it is his airplane and will be proud of it regardless of looks.

The airplanes you listed are all great trainers. Here is one I think you will like as well as your Grandson. It is very stable. Flies slow and fast. Is Aerobatic when you want it to be. Try looking for the following:

World Models Skyraider MachII. Comes in either red or green and does not look like the run of the mill trainers out there.

I bought one of these and put a magnum 45 on it and it served me well. I sold it and miss it.

There are plenty more out there including the sticks. Whatever you choose your Grandson is gonna have a blast with it.

Wishing you the best.

Glenn Williams
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:49 PM
  #42
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ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer

Empire Trainer
Ah... Now I understand...

Young Luke (aka CGr)
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:47 PM
  #43
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: willig10

I would suggest that you dont get too wrapped up in how an airplane looks. You may have been in the RC community for awhile and a trainer is way far behind you. Your Grandson on the other hand just needs to learn how to fly on a stable, forgiving and slow airplane.
Thanks for the philosophical observations. I don't care what it LOOKS like... I'm more concerned with the flight characteristics. However... FWIW, grandson #1 learned on an LT 40, and he quickly became bored with that airplane because it wasn't "cool". His interest didn't pick up again until I built him a Sig Kougar. I was trying to avoid a re-occurrence of that with the H9 P-51 PTS. When that idea tanked, I decided to hell with the "looks", he'll learn properly or not at all.

I got weary of agonizing over this decision, and, unable to find an Eagle ARF anywhere, picked up an Empire SuperStar 40 today at the LHS. With the second, "cool" plane (the H9 P-51) sitting in the wall rack where he can see it, and anticipate flying it, hopefully he won't tire of the plebian trainer too soon.

Thanks again to all who responded.

.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: To the old salts...

"plebian trainer". I like that. Too bad the hobby folks call a spade a spade. If they would call trainers by some flowery (read that "misleading")) name, they might not be so plebian. They can actually be a blast to fly and most good fliers keep at least one that they can dust off and fly whenever they feel like just leisurely poking around the sky. I was looking for a quickie to do last summer, so I converted my Empire .60 to dual aileron servos. It always did do decent loops and the dual aileron servos fantastically improved the roll rate. And with the GMS .61 on the front of it, it isn't the slowest plane in the sky either. (ain't no pylon racer tho)
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:26 PM
  #45
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: LSP972


Quote:
ORIGINAL: jetmech05

If you're flying the Mustang PTS with the 3 bladed prop...get a two blade APC...take off the speed brakes, raise the flaps and go teach him.....
Nope, have a Graupner 11X7.5 on an OS .46SF, flaps are operational (i.e., up unless I call for them), never installed the ''speed brakes'', and got rid of the droops after the first flight.

Its still a pig below half throttle.

.
theirs your problem, that prop is wayyyy to big for that engine, try a 12x4 and that plane will slow down much better and have more power
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:48 AM
  #46
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ORIGINAL: jimmyjames213


theirs your problem, that prop is wayyyy to big for that engine, try a 12x4 and that plane will slow down much better and have more power
Agreed... especially on an SF engine on that Mustang...

The PTS engines is more powerful than the SF/SX and so is an AX...

On this plane you do need the extra power...

The plane normally comes with a special 10x4.5x3 prop with the PTS engine.

The plane WILL fly slowly and well with that combo but the engine is producing a good deal of thrust below 50% settings.

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