LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

... who hang out here, helping newbies... please forgive the length of this inquiry, but you'll see why. I posted this query in the newbie/beginner forum because the veterans here will be most up-to-speed on the topic of viable trainer models.

I'm in somewhat of a dilemma. Grandson #2 is showing interest in the hobby, is getting pretty good on the sim, and is about ready to start actually flying. So, being the good modeler/grand dad, I bought him a plane. After much thought and looking around, I got the H9 P-51 PTS; the original yellow-tail example. Just bought the airframe, since I have tons of everything else (engines, radio gear, etc.). We'll be buddy-boxing, so I figured we didn't need a conventional trainer.

Well... I assembled it, and am not terribly impressed with its flying qualities. Oh, it flies okay, but needs a lot of rudder in slow-speed turns and is a pig in general at low speed- with OR without the droops. It has a strong O.S. 46SF for power; I triple-checked the balance and incidents, etc., and it is within proper weight parameters. I even tried different props. But for whatever reason, it won't be the optimum thing for him to learn to land with. So we'll put that one back on the wall for his "second plane".

Now comes the dilemma; i.e., what trainer to get? I've got an LT40 kit NIB, but don't have the time to build it quickly. The ARF version (which I had, until grandson #1 and I killed it playing around on a VERY windy day; a GREAT trainer, IMO) has been AWOL for quite some time, I'm told, even though Sig is supposedly re-organizing. Ah, I say to myself... I know, I'll get an Eagle ARF. Then I find out that The Empire now owns what is left of Goldberg, and the Eagle 63 ARF is "temporarily unavailable"... which is Empire-speak for "We're getting ready to dump it".

So I go to the LHS and check out the various Empire trainers; Hobbico AviStar, NexStar, Tower Trainer, etc. Not impressed with any of those (nor the few "off-brand/economy" offerings), either, for various reasons.

So, here's the question: What else is out there? The new offering of the TameCat looks intriguing, but I'm betting its squirrelly on the ground; and everybody seems to be out of stock, anyway.

Have I missed anything? All I want is a simple high D-tube wing and box fuselage, that is light enough to fly on an old O.S. 40FP. I'll make a taildragger out of it, and as soon as the kid is competent with it he can try his P-51 again. Wish I had the time to build that LT40, but that just isn't in the cards now. I need SOMETHING, before the kid loses interest.

Help me out here, guys... I've run slap out of options.

.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Here's one I reviewed a while back. The price has gone up since the review, but it's a great plane that I still keep around for training:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...rticle_id=1108

noveldoc

My Feedback: (2)

Hobby Lobby has recently released ARF upgrades to their classic Telemaster 40 and Funster. They are available. Check the HL website.

Telemaster is a very stable trainer. Easy to fly slowly for a beginner to have time to react. Also they are about the smoothest landers around.

The Funster is a low wing version. Lots of people want it as a second plane to learn some aerobatics while still keeping that slow flight and slow landing. Some folks choose it as a primary trainer.

There are tons of trainers out there. These are among the very best.

Tom

jetmech05

If you're flying the Mustang PTS with the 3 bladed prop...get a two blade APC...take off the speed brakes, raise the flaps and go teach him.....I'm no fan of any of the PTS's...but since you have it use it.......
The best option you have is to get someone to build that LT-40 for you.....
Good Luck

opjose

Ibid on the 2 blade prop on the PTS



As came up recently in the Beginner's area...

Since you WILL be buddy boxing with him, consider something like a Big Stik.

Tone down the throws and you have a very nice docile plane.

Later you can dial things back up and let him have a blast doing aerobatics.

The plane is trivially easy to repair as well.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Mike: That sort of reminds me of the Midwest Aerobat.. high wing, no dihedral, pretty capable but pretty fair trainer response. Even at a slight higher price, $99.99, it seems to be a pretty good bargain for an ARF.

Since I am not a big fan of the PTS, I'd vote for that one.

If the OP wants a dihedral trainer, well, the Tower 40 ARF is also a good deal and a great trainer. However, the Wingman I would give something, that after it's role as a trainer, could be given a bit more aileron/elevator and made to perform a lot better, more like a good second plane.


CGr.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Yes, flying it was very similar to the Midwest Aerobat

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Nope, have a Graupner 11X7.5 on an OS .46SF, flaps are operational (i.e., up unless I call for them), never installed the "speed brakes", and got rid of the droops after the first flight.

Its still a pig below half throttle.

.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Now, THERE is an excellent idea that never occurred to me. I've got a 91 Surpass around here somewhere that would go good on the GP .60 size Stik. With the mains up front for a tail dragger, I'd probably have to stuff the battery in the tail... but yeah, that should work. If I can keep it light, that big fat wing should float like a dream. And you're right; kick up the throws and he (or I) can tear the sky up. Hmmmmm...

Many thanks for all the ideas. Keep them coming if something else comes to mind...

.

bingo field

4* or Tiger 60. There, that should get your mind greased and flowing...

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I'm sure not a fan of the PTS system but I did like the 51 after I got rid of the slowumdown crap, just not as a trainer. After reading Mikes review and looking at the plane I sure like the looks of that one. The price {then }sure wasn't out of line either. I wouldn't mind having one of them set up and ready to go in my hanger!!

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

I really liked my Aerobat. I was sad when they discontinued it. I just may get one.. nostalgia, ya know? That was the plane that the wind caught when it was on the bench. It flipped over and broke away the wing saddle. I still have the plane, but I am not quite sure how to fix the saddle. I may give it to one of the builders at the club and let them get it back up and flying.

The shape of the wing saddle, where the wing "slotted" into the fuselage is where the problem is. And, when it flipped over, the tail feathers broke completely off.. it was really slammed down hard.



Jeez.. now that I look at their web site, the Wingman II is a pretty neat looking plane too!!!


Hmmmm.. when you go to the "buy one" page, the price goes from $99.99 to $109.00. What's with that?




CGr.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

About 10 bucks!!!!!!!

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

TruBlu02

For me there is an easy answer to this question. The Tower hobbies Trainer is probably one of the best values on the market at $79+shipping. It is rugged and well built. It will be ahpy with just about any motor you put on the nose and it will take ALOT of abuse. Trust me I know. I used mine as a windy day flyer and plane for my buddies to fly on the buddy box. I beat it up pretty bad but it never once showed any signs of the neglect that were heaped upon it. Don't let the price fool you. It is well built and flies rock solid. My favorite part of the Tower Trainer is that you don't have to be worried about breaking it. If you crash it you are not out much money! I have never heard anyone who wasn't happy with it. Good luck with your Grandson!!

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCAS2&P=ML

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

Why not look around and see the world is moving to electric? How about the apprentice? Nice electric RTF plane and crashes are usually a simple glue job.

I have flown the electric Nextstar, but would not recommend it. If you do go that route, make sure you use both droops and speed brakes together.

I prefer an outrunner/lipo setup... and the Alpha 40 is a great little plane for that but they are currently out of stock.

Just getting into the hobby, means going with some current technology... the slime'r is not always the first choice.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

I looked at one of those yesterday at the LHS... and have been thinking about it since. When you get right down to it, it makes more sense than anything else. About the only real drawback is the ChinaCote/shelf paper covering; but for less than a hundred bucks, what difference does that REALLY make?

There are some decent-looking trainers out there in web land, but one wonders just how much customer service is to be had from the vendors, if it should become necessary. If I buy this one from the LHS, he will handle any problems with the kit.

I have found ONE place that claims to have the Eagle ARF in stock. I'll call them in a bit here. If they don't have it, then I believe I'll go with this Tower Hobbies Special. The more I think about the Big Stik option, the more possible pitfalls come to mind.

Again, thanks to all.

.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Why do some of you electric guys have to assume an air of superiority?

I have "been in the hobby" since 1987. Part of the fun for me is the noise and clatter of the engines. And I could not care less as to where "the world is moving to".

Enjoy your flying hair dryers; I'll enjoy my "slimers"...

.

RCVFR

My Feedback: (7)

[quote]ORIGINAL: LSP972


Nope, have a Graupner 11X7.5 on an OS .46SF, flaps are operational (i.e., up unless I call for them), never installed the "speed brakes", and got rid of the droops after the first flight.

Its still a pig below half throttle.

.
[/quote
11X7.5 is not a good choice for a trainer. If you want to build up speed, I guess it could do that, but I think thrust is more what a trainer needs. Go toi 11X5 or 11X6 and see the improved performance.

kmeyers

You were looking at the best and did not even relize it.

The Evil Empire's Hobbico Avistar is the finest youg people trainer ever. IMHO light wing loading and very stable.

I have one bashed to a bolt on wing, tail dragger, dual alieron servos and no cowl cheeks.

With wild throws it snaps, knife edges and handles everthing I can throw at it. But on low rates it is a perfect trainer. So the name in your Mustang's "PTS" (progressive trainer system) is truely manifested. Again IMHO.

This is the trainer I sugguest for all nonvision impared students. For slower and vision impared adluts I recomend the Empire's 60 size version the Hobbico Hobbistar.
good luck my grandson is 19 months so maybe someday for me too.

tryingagain

I hope you are wrong about the Eagle, it is one of my favorites and my son is currently building the Eagle 2 kit. They do seem to be sweeping all things Goldberg off the market though.
I like the look of the Wingman but I watched one of the guys at our club learn on a Stik. It worked out well for him and he has been able to dial it up a notch as he has become more experienced. If you can't find an Eagle ARF my vote would be the Stik with the 91 on it.

I am not quite sure why you would go out and buy Lipos and a charger if you have everything you need for glow on hand.

I have nothing against electric flyers as I am a firm believer in each to their own. That being said, and to paraphrase the NRA, you can have my glow set ups when you pry them out of my cold dead fingers. I love the smell, the sound and even the clean up.


Cheers

Gord

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

My favorite trainer is the Hanger 9 Alpha. With an OS 46 and an 11x6 APC, it flies very well, is capable of some basic aerobatics, and will be fun to fly after initial training.

Brad

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

I had a 12.5X5 on it, applying that logic; no joy. It is slightly less "piggish" with the 11X7.5.

I think the main problem is the airplane is heavy. I haven't weighed it yet (cannot find my scale, but I bought another one yesterday), but it feels like seven or eight pounds.

.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Did I miss something or am I just dense. What is an "Empire trainer"?

CGr

jhatton

I can usually build a Lt-40 kit in a weekend then another one to cover it... my daughters Lt-40 was built in a weekend flown the following weekend with a TT-46, then last fall I pulled the TT out and converted it to electric.