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  1. #51
    Villa's Avatar
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Hi OzMo
    Yes, I use the throttle threw-out the landing approach. Also the elevator. Opposite to what a novice might think, up elevator at low throttle is used to lose altitude and thus shorten the touchdown.

  2. #52
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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: Villa

    Hi OzMo
    Yes, I use the throttle threw-out the landing approach. Also the elevator. Opposite to what a novice might think, up elevator at low throttle is used to lose altitude and thus shorten the touchdown.

    Yep and as said before PRACTICE. It is amazing how every plane is a bit different in how it handles at low speeds, even in two of the same make. Washout on trianers helps here.
    Yes dear, I did glue my hand to the airplane to keep from dropping it.

  3. #53

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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: OzMo


    ORIGINAL: Villa

    Hi OzMo
    Yes, I use the throttle threw-out the landing approach. Also the elevator. Opposite to what a novice might think, up elevator at low throttle is used to lose altitude and thus shorten the touchdown.

    Yep and as said before PRACTICE. It is amazing how every plane is a bit different in how it handles at low speeds, even in two of the same make. Washout on trianers helps here.
    This subject has been covered a number of times and each time it seems there is more good information to obtain. If only one thing could be emphasized to PRACTICE is APPROACH. I struggled early on with landings, so I started trying to figure out my dilemma and realized it was my approaches.

    I watched other pilots and noticed the ones that struggled landing and even crashed more than others had erratic approaches when they come in for landing. I started praticing approaches over and over and over from both sides of the fields and this made ALL the difference for me. I found improvements all the way around and once I started getting my approaches consistant I then could focus on other areas of landing such as, rudder control, elevator, throttle management, etc.

    One of the things I noticed in the AMA rules for instructors was being able to land within two wingspans of the centerline of the runway. I found that some of the best pilots would struggle with this one especially in windy conditions

    Good flying (and landing)

  4. #54
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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: Villa
    It is my opinion that when the plane is far away from you, you have no idea where it is located, relative to a fixed object, such as the beginning of the runway. You have to learn to compensate for this human inability to determine the location of our RC plane relative to another object at a ''far'' distance. I do it by coming in for a landing ''relatively high'' at the end of the runway, and then aiming to touch down near to ''directly in front of me''. I look forward to any comments on this.
    Our eyes are separated by 3"; hence, any triangulation at distance is impossible.

    One thing that I have learned is that during approach, the shape of the plane in the sky is not to move too much respect to clouds and trees, since it should be descending towards me in a straight and inclined line.

    During the high and far stage of the approach, my brain is judging distance and altitude by the size of that approaching shape, which is in my memory from previous landings of that specific plane.

    The last stage is the tricky one, because the top of the trees are closer and the shape starts moving towards a point in front of my location.
    However, two new things are helpful: the shade of the plane, and the lateral view of the fuselage.

    There is a fence on the East end of our runway that caught many planes during final approach.
    We made a scale shape in plywood of a standing man and placed against the fence.
    After that, no more planes have crashed there.

    I believe that the shape has been a great reference for the pilots for mentally comparing the size of the approaching plane respect to the man's shape.
    Lnewqban - "God will not look you over for medals, degrees or diplomas, but for scars. He has achieved success who has worked well, laughed often, and loved much." - Elbert Hubbard

  5. #55

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    My landings for the most part are perfect, that is when my approach is good. When the approach is off, that's when I wind up landing on the nose wheel.  So as others have said, it isnt the actual landing, its the approach that is the most difficult, something I am still learning. Judging the distance and direction the plane is traveling is the hardest thing I am learning.

    The thing I need to work on is figure out why my plane veers left, it seems every time I have it lined up it drifts left, and then I overreact last minute to compensate.  Although it seems when it is windy I do better at landing. Figure that one out.
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  6. #56

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    acdii:

    As I said before, When the model is about 3 feet off the grass or runway, FOCUS your Eyes on THE MAIN GEAR Wheels (REAR WHEELS) and start feeding in more and more elevator. As the model settles in on the MAIN Gear with the nose high, ease off the Elevator.

    On a Tri-Gear model:: If you are looking at the TOTAL AIRPLANE, you will hit on the nose gear, bending the gear and breaking the prop.

    Ken AMA 1528 since 1948


    kbkopy

  7. #57
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Our eyes are separated by 3"; hence, any triangulation at distance is impossible.
    Ever watch a pro golfer put a 5 iron shot on the green at 200 yards, or aquarterback drop a ball into a running receiver's arms at 60 yards? Or an R/C pylon race?

    Some depth perception is possible and regularly achieved - with practice.
    Charlie P. (NY) "Gravity is weak but persistant".

    AMA 747089/IMAA 30723

  8. #58
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Or Evan Longoria hitting a game winning single in the 11th inning? [X(] GO RAYS!!

    http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/mlb/gam...078887&c_id=tb

    Sorry Boston fans..

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  9. #59
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Off-topic update...

    Sorry, I had to add this.

    CGr.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  10. #60
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Ok.. Back on topic.

    One thing that I always tell new folks, something that my instructor taught me when I was having some problems coming in for a landing. I seemed to keep coming in to far away from me, away from the runway centerline. It seems a natural thing to do.. don't want to get hit by the plane, now do we.

    Well, the plane is usually further away than we realize but being new, the tendency is to fly it away from us. In fact, my second plane, my Tiger 60, took quite a beating when I kept landing it on or next to the berm at the opposite side of the runway from me. Since our main field is a full-scale runway, there is a bit of a down slope on each side of the runway to let water run into a ditch, more so on the opposite side of our pilot stands. I put it in that darned ditch several times causing me some problems with the nosegear.

    He was watching me one day and told me "Just fly it straight towards you on final. Watch it closely, and adjust your throttle as necessary to get it to come in on a nice glide slope. Don't worry about it hitting you, it won't".

    So, I tried it and it worked. My landings started to be right on the runway centerline and, right in front of me. So, aside from all the other stuff we learn, keeping things basic during our finals is something worth focusing on to get it right, and again, practice practice practice.

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
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  11. #61

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Throttle is altitude. Elevator is speed. With this simplistic set of explanations everything else should make sense.

  12. #62

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    I'm going to try that tomorrow. When I can place the plane on the runway the landings are great, when Ihave to fixate on trying to keep it on the runway, thats when Iwind up dumping it. Too hard to concentrate on it AOA when you are busy trying to line it up.
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  13. #63
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    ORIGINAL: ARUP

    Throttle is altitude. Elevator is speed. With this simplistic set of explanations everything else should make sense.
    Actually, throttle is distance. If you want to extend your landing approach, tap in a few clicks of throttle. Nurse it down with taps of elevator to get the nose up a tad bit to slow things down a bit. But, as once told, don't get the nose up high enough so you can see the bottom of the aircraft.

    CGr.
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  14. #64

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Line the model up on your SHOULDER, keep it there until it is about one hundred (100) feet from the end of your runway. Because of YOUR shoulder alignment of the aircraft, on a model runway or full scale runway, you will be able to touch down about 25 feet out in FRONT of you.

    Try It !

    Ken
    kbkopy

  15. #65
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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: Ken Kehlet

    acdii:

    As I said before, When the model is about 3 feet off the grass or runway, FOCUS your Eyes on THE MAIN GEAR Wheels (REAR WHEELS) and start feeding in more and more elevator. As the model settles in on the MAIN Gear with the nose high, ease off the Elevator.

    On a Tri-Gear model:: If you are looking at the TOTAL AIRPLANE, you will hit on the nose gear, bending the gear and breaking the prop.

    Ken AMA 1528 since 1948


    On a high wing trainer look for the horiz stab to be between the wing and the wheels, after the last turn when the plane is pointed at you.
    Yes dear, I did glue my hand to the airplane to keep from dropping it.

  16. #66

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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: CGRetired

    ORIGINAL: ARUP

    Throttle is altitude. Elevator is speed. With this simplistic set of explanations everything else should make sense.
    Actually, throttle is distance. If you want to extend your landing approach, tap in a few clicks of throttle. Nurse it down with taps of elevator to get the nose up a tad bit to slow things down a bit. But, as once told, don't get the nose up high enough so you can see the bottom of the aircraft.

    CGr.
    Maybe think about it like this. If a model is at 50% throttle and pulls into an up line and stops, still at 50% throttle, the elevator stopped the relative forward motion / change in speed and distance. Not the throttle. If that same model then noses over into a down line still at half throttle the elevator or rudder allowed the change in speed and subsequently distance. Anyone remember that pesky distance = speed x time equation.
    The throttles primary function is altitude. Speed is secondary.
    The elevators primary function is speed. Altitude is secondary.
    The ailerons primary function is roll. Yaw is secondary.
    For rudder yaw is primary and roll secondary.

    Cheers.
    Revver Bro #202

  17. #67

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    And landing gear is only good if you keep the plane right side up!
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  18. #68

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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: CGRetired

    ORIGINAL: ARUP

    Throttle is altitude. Elevator is speed. With this simplistic set of explanations everything else should make sense.
    Actually, throttle is distance. If you want to extend your landing approach, tap in a few clicks of throttle. Nurse it down with taps of elevator to get the nose up a tad bit to slow things down a bit. But, as once told, don't get the nose up high enough so you can see the bottom of the aircraft.

    CGr.
    Thanks but distance IS just 'horizontal' altitude. You are trading the effects of gravity with throttle. Flying horizontally is just staying in altitude relevant equilibrium. You say banana I say banana! Cheers!

  19. #69

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    Trees and Soybeans do not a good runway make.
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  20. #70
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    And concentration, yesterday I went flying after a week of not flying. My Saito was acting up. So I spend 40-45 mins trying to tune it.
    Finally I was airborne. Flew 3 times and a thunder storm started so I waited it out. After 20 misn it was gone so I flew again.
    Only after I was up I realized that though the storm went they were still high winds.
    I lined up for landing in the same way as the previous flights(with barely no winds) but now the winds were ~20 mph cross in my face. The plane ended in the grass in front of me, I stripped the main.
    CONCENTRATION, never be so hurry to take off that you dont look at the wind sock. The wind can change direction or speed in 1 minute
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  21. #71

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    That is so true. Yesterday I put my plane up that Ihad slammed into a barn 2 weeks ago to see if it was going to fly ok, and in my impateince to wait until the wind died down, first put it into the soybeans, lightly though, it was being pushed by the crosswind, and just missed the runway. After Imade a couple link adjustments, tried it again, and totally forgot how this lightweight plane likes to turn into the wind at slow sppeds and flew it right over me into the tree behind me on takeoff. No matter what I tried, since the tail fin was not 100% Ihad very little control over it, winds were too strong. After the winds died down, I flew my other plane which is still in perfect shape and was able to concentrate on flying and not the wind.

    Iguess I should spend the $20 and get the parts for my one plane.
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  22. #72

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    hi
    my 14 year old learn from my freind how to fly and landed ,look at the teachers face at the end of the video hes looks very happy ,like a proud teacher,
    he show him thorrle control and rudder too, it all help him in all flying kid now flys better then me[X(],lol



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVSEkb695BU

  23. #73
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    RE: Making a Good Landing


    ORIGINAL: CGRetired

    Or Evan Longoria hitting a game winning single in the 11th inning? [X(] GO RAYS!!

    http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/mlb/gam...078887&c_id=tb

    Sorry Boston fans..

    CGr.
    Nooooo That should be GOOOOO OOOOOO'S!!!!
    SSGT USMC 75,83 Son Brian USMC Intel/Excelon Energy Corp, Son Matt USMC Air Traffic Control/Penn State

  24. #74
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    The Rays beat Texas last night in 11 innings. The Yanks beat the O's, I'm sorry to say. []
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  25. #75

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    RE: Making a Good Landing

    The best advise is practice. After the first 10,000 touch and go landings, the next 20,000 or so were because I enjoy the process. On days with zero wind with no other airplanes in the air, I like to do to stall turns at each end of the runway with a touch and go in the middle. Easy to do 6 to 8 landings a minute doing this, but the pucker factor can be very high. Done right, and you are on the verge of a stall as you pull out of the dive and flair for the landing, and the stall turn is done low enough ( 50-75 feet) so you don't pick up too much speed to land. Of course, you have to have a plane that you know quite well.

    The second thing necessary for great landings is an airplane that is properly set up in terms of balance and decalage, including engine thrust. Nose heavy airplanes arrive at the ground, where a balanced airplane is able to flair gently. Not having the engine thrust line correct makes it difficult to smoothly add or subtract power to extend an approach. Making repeatable landings has a lot to do with minimizing the pilot's workload, and it all depends on how well you have trammed the airplane.

    Learn how to fly on the "backside of the curve". Google the term if you have never heard of it. The reason I mention it is that airplanes have a speed and power curve that results in level flight. At the bottom of the curve is the minimum power that an airplane can maintain level flight. Normally people land at a power and speed to the right side of this point. So if you add power, you speed up and climb, or if you add more elevator, you also climb. Where people get in trouble is that sometimes they enter the left side of the curve, the so-call backside of the curve. Over there, the airplane starts acting strange. Up elevator causes the airplane to loose altitude and you are very close to a stall. You can not flair from the backside with the elevator, and if you have used up all your altitude before getting out of this condition there is only one option that will prevent a crash landing and that is adding power and decreasing the elevator. If you enter this condition while dead stick, you have to release back pressure on the elevator while you have altitude and gain some airspeed.

    So the backside of the curve is evil, right? Well it does have it's place in energy management during a dead stick landing. If you are high over the field it's best to just circle around for a landing, with maybe a couple of "S" turns to burn off excess energy on the approach. But what if you are too low to complete a circle qne will go long? Slowing down to the back side will allow you to make a much steeper approach to the runway without picking up speed and is easier than doing a slide slip or forward slip. Just remember to release the elevator to pick up speed at the bottom so you can flair for the landing.

    The final thing is to learn how to adjust for wind conditions. If flying on a gusty day, land with a bit faster airspeed. If you are deadstick, you glide a greater distance with a higher airspeed. If you are unsure of your fuel supply or engine reliability, fly upwind, stay up wind. Get downwind, and you may end up in a corn field instead of the airfield.

    And practice. Both normal landing and dead stick.
    - Supplementary insipid innocuous inane vacuous proclamation


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