Beginners Beginners in RC start here for help.

Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

Reply
Old 09-06-2011, 07:09 AM
  #1
300M
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Clarksburg, WV
Posts: 9
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

I have a Kadet Sr. from Nitroplanes and want to install dihedral into the wings,

I have a wing joiner (aluminum) from a SIG Kadet and want to install it instead of the straight joiner from Nitroplanes.

I need some suggestions on how to install the dihedral. I thought about making a wedge in the shape of a rib and epoxying it on both wings. I know the notch in the fuselage would have to be enlarged to accomadate the rib leading edge extensions. (no big deal).

I don't want to go in and tilt the first rib (this would be a big deal).

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated........Thanks!!!!!

............300M...............
300M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 01:02 PM
  #2
stevenmax50
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ft payne, AL
Posts: 1,186
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

Would this effect the method of joing the wing halves?  On every model I have built with a 1 piece wing the wing halves have all had some ply that would go from the wing center, the length of the spar for about 2 ribs, joining the 2 halves.  These were always shaped to accomodate the dihedral.  You absolutly do not want to leave those out. 
stevenmax50 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 03:08 AM
  #3
Mr67Stang
 
Mr67Stang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,822
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

I have never seen a Kadet Sr. that did not have dihedral built into it unless it was a custom kit built plane where the builder removed the dihedral that was in the plans. Install the wing joiner that came in the ARF (dry) and look at it. Upload a picture for us. Just because the joiner is straight does not mean there is no dihedral.
Mr67Stang is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 04:00 AM
  #4
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,202
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

Heres two quick pics of mine with the stock wing diheadral.....Flies great!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sq46008.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	118.8 KB
ID:	1659235   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kh17478.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	118.9 KB
ID:	1659236  
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 04:12 AM
  #5
Top_Gunn
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Granger, IN
Posts: 1,654
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

The ARF version of the Kadet Sr. has ailerons, so it doesn't need as much dihedral as the kit version. I have made a wing with ailerons for the kit version, and when I did that I took out about 2/3 of the dihedral. Flies great.
Top_Gunn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:10 AM
  #6
jester_s1
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,088
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

If you're working with an instructor the dihedral really isn't necessary. The plane is still going to be stable in level flight and will be better in the wind without it. The real value of dihedral is that you can let go of the sticks if you get disoriented and the plane will return to neutral all by itself, assuming you have enough altitude at the time.
jester_s1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:42 AM
  #7
300M
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Clarksburg, WV
Posts: 9
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

The Nitroplanes Kadet Senior, ARF does not have any dihedral in the wings. Number 1 rib is 90 degrees to the wing spar.

I have an existing SIG wing(damaged) and the #1 rib has 3 degrees tilt in it.Therefore the total dihedral is 6 degrees. I
know this because the SIG wing joiner has the angle of 6 degrees.

Iwould send pictures but i don't have the wearwithall to do so. Sorry.

I guess that this was another shortcut the Chinese took to cheapen an otherwise great design of SIG's

............300M.............
300M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 05:55 AM
  #8
sawdust
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Millstone, WV
Posts: 379
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

Do not do anything to weaken the wing joint on this plane. I watched my flying pal's Nitro Kadet Senior's wings fold while in flight. He was not doing anything but Sunday flying.

If it were my plane I would open the wing up and reenforce the first and second rib area and then make it a on piece wing.

I have a Sig Kadet Senior ARF that has been in my hanger for 6 years. And I had to open up the wing and reenforce it. My wing is still a two piece wing.

Good luck.



sawdust is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 06:09 AM
  #9
300M
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Clarksburg, WV
Posts: 9
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

Sawdust,
Did this happen at this year's fly-in at Summersville? If so, I was there and saw it happen.
Wondered what the cause was.
...300M........
300M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 09:38 AM
  #10
jester_s1
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,088
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

I don't see how removing dihedral could be a cost cutting measure. The most likely assumption is simply that most beginners use a buddy box now and want their planes to become aerobatic performers once the initial training time is done, and a flat wing lends itself to that nicely.
jester_s1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 07:02 PM
  #11
sawdust
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Millstone, WV
Posts: 379
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 300M

Sawdust,
Did this happen at this year's fly-in at Summersville? If so, I was there and saw it happen.
Wondered what the cause was.
...300M........

Yes that was where it happened. IMO the quality of the wood used in the wing was very poor. todd
sawdust is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 01:13 AM
  #12
Mr67Stang
 
Mr67Stang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,822
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gene6029

Heres two quick pics of mine with the stock wing diheadral.....Flies great!
Okay, I am confused/lost. The pictues show the normal dihedral for the Kadet Sr. w/ ailerons definately not a straight wing with "no" dihedral. Are you wanting more dihedral like the Kadet Sr. kit without ailerons? The 3 channel kit has all that dihedral so when the runnder is used the plane will have more roll coupling with rudder to make up for the lack of ailerons. That plane with more dihedral would fly awkwardly due to it having ailerons I think.
Mr67Stang is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 04:28 AM
  #13
JohnBuckner
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,260
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

There is a lot of confusion going on here and it is likely because care is not being taken as to which variations are being talked about.

300M you are correct and what you considered for a fix is not only doable but neccessary. The Super Seniors as purchased from NitroPlanes have root ribs that are poorly aligned and has a very poor aluminum spar fitting. This spar insert or the built in wing boxs does not allow for any dihedral save for what can be had from looseness.

This flat wing actually appears to have anhedral due to an optical illusion. Now I am a big fan of true and substancial anhedral on a high wing cabin type however those advantages with a flat wing are not going to be there and in my opinion with this airplane will fly better for its intended purposes with a reasonable degree of positive dihedral.

Now without turning this into another argument over the pro and cons of dihedral The fix for this particular airplane is not difficult but does require a mediocum of effort

We now have I belive eight of the Super Seniors locally from Nitro Planes flying, two of which are mine and i use them specifically for primary instruction. For primary instruction I normally now only use my airplanes and only my radio equipment and no I am not a commercal operation.

All of these airplane exhibited this poor fit.

300m The fix is to take the aluminum joiner and scrib a line along only the bottom edge from the center to each end with roughly the dihedral you want. This angle is then ground into the joiner and it is carfully sanded and fitted to each wing. This will now allow the wing to be raised during joining to roughly the desired dihedral, the boxes are thourghly swathed in epoxy and joined.

The root ribs will be in the form of a v and as you noted in your early posts wood is just carved and inserted into the joint with epoxie.

Now the wing forward pin the one that inserts into the cabin bulhkhead will be to wide and its neccessary to trim the bulkhead a little.

There has been no failures in hard use except for a ninth airplane that the wing did fold on and the reason was that this fellow did not trim and use the aluminum joiner. Instead he replaced it with a piece of liteply (poplar) being only a bit less than a quarter inch Duh.

If you choose to fiberglas the center section then that is fine, I did not do that.

My ships are hard workers and the lastest use has also been introducing fellows into the joys of night flight via the A9 buddy box.

John

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ipvqIs8C8&NR=1
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Zx71929.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	77.2 KB
ID:	1659550   Click image for larger version

Name:	Qj20772.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	74.8 KB
ID:	1659551   Click image for larger version

Name:	Eg77181.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	1659552  
JohnBuckner is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 05:49 AM
  #14
300M
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Clarksburg, WV
Posts: 9
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

John and everyone who responded to my situation re: dihedral, I say,Thanks a lot.

Now,if I epoxy the wings together, I will have to fold the front passenger seat down to accomadate the combined length.
Good thing the"300" has a pass through rear seat.

Thanks, again.

......300M.............
300M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 08:53 AM
  #15
JohnBuckner
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,260
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Dihedral for Kadet Sr. Nitroplanes

Hmmm, did you say fold down rear passenger seat?

Yes that can be accomodated


John
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Yv65856.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	88.5 KB
ID:	1659595  
JohnBuckner is online now  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:07 PM.