How to paint instead of monokote
09-28-2011, 05:39 AM
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How to paint instead of monokote
Hi All,
I recetly got the Sig Hog-Bipe kit and Iwas thinking about painting it instead of covering with monokote.
Is this a good idea, or just plain stupid? My covering skills are not that great, and I have always wanted to try for the better finish look with paint.
If this is a good idea - the next questions is how? I seem to recall my late father covering his planes with fibreglass and then painting. Is this needed? How do I go about using paint? What are the steps involved?
Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to furnish.
_brad_
I recetly got the Sig Hog-Bipe kit and Iwas thinking about painting it instead of covering with monokote.
Is this a good idea, or just plain stupid? My covering skills are not that great, and I have always wanted to try for the better finish look with paint.
If this is a good idea - the next questions is how? I seem to recall my late father covering his planes with fibreglass and then painting. Is this needed? How do I go about using paint? What are the steps involved?
Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to furnish.
_brad_
09-28-2011, 05:56 AM
#2
RE: How to paint instead of monokote
It depends on how pretty you want it to be. I have painted many a bare fuselage and it works great as long as you don't mind the wood grain showing. Form there, you can go into more and more detail to hide the wood grain all the way up to fiberglassing.
But keep in mind that you'll still have to cover the wings unless you fully sheet them.
But keep in mind that you'll still have to cover the wings unless you fully sheet them.
09-28-2011, 06:14 AM
#3
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
Open-bay wings can be painted, but you'll need to cover them with a paintable material. Silk used to be the fabric of choice, but there are many more modern alternatives. There are some you glue on and then heat to tauten, and some you just iron on like the plastic materials. Unfortunately, as painting models has declined, so has the number of materials you can use.
09-28-2011, 06:20 AM
#5
RE: How to paint instead of monokote
If your engine uses glow, only some paints can be used.
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform..._materials.htm
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...oxy_paints.htm
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform..._materials.htm
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...oxy_paints.htm
09-28-2011, 06:37 AM
#6
RE: How to paint instead of monokote
Ah looking for the old school way of doing it. If using fiberglass just remember it will
add a lot of weight to the plane. Like MinnFlyer said you will still have to cover the wings.
There are many ways to approach this, one is to use silkspan and dope to cover any open
surfaces, once it is filled with clear & sanding sealer it is the lightest paint job you can get,
control liners still do it this way today to save weight, if a color isn't availalbe in butylrate dope
that suits you, automotive base with clear over them is the way to go, again you have to be light
on the spray as the weight will increase. I find that covering with a cloth based prefinished covering
is the best way to go for most RC models, ie Solartex from Balsa USA is one of the easiest cloth
based coverings to work with, unlike Monokote, it goes around corners and curves really easy and
can be painted over with a slight scuffing with 400 - 600 wet or dry sand paper, it also holds it tightness
once shrunk, so painting with a clear coat over it is ideal for this type of covering. Also is Sig Coverite
which has to be attached with an adhesive and them sealed and painted. It just depends on how much
work you are willing to put into the job to get the finish you are looking for.......and also how good of a
painter you are or have someone that is who can lend a helping hand with the finish.
Bill D.
add a lot of weight to the plane. Like MinnFlyer said you will still have to cover the wings.
There are many ways to approach this, one is to use silkspan and dope to cover any open
surfaces, once it is filled with clear & sanding sealer it is the lightest paint job you can get,
control liners still do it this way today to save weight, if a color isn't availalbe in butylrate dope
that suits you, automotive base with clear over them is the way to go, again you have to be light
on the spray as the weight will increase. I find that covering with a cloth based prefinished covering
is the best way to go for most RC models, ie Solartex from Balsa USA is one of the easiest cloth
based coverings to work with, unlike Monokote, it goes around corners and curves really easy and
can be painted over with a slight scuffing with 400 - 600 wet or dry sand paper, it also holds it tightness
once shrunk, so painting with a clear coat over it is ideal for this type of covering. Also is Sig Coverite
which has to be attached with an adhesive and them sealed and painted. It just depends on how much
work you are willing to put into the job to get the finish you are looking for.......and also how good of a
painter you are or have someone that is who can lend a helping hand with the finish.
Bill D.
09-28-2011, 08:37 AM
#7
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
The laundry list for prepping the HB for painting might include:
- [*]Sheet or cover the wings from the main spar to the training edge and the tips. You could shape your own sold wing tips to eliminate sheeting / covering them. Might be a simple process to just butt joint sheeting from the main spar back to the TE and eliminate the TE sheeting bit and the cap strips. And consolidate the center wing sheeting with the new added rear sheeting. A 4" wide sheet of 1/16" sheeting is plenty to fill the gap between the LE sheeting and the TE sheeting (3" wide sheeting is too narrow). [*]Sheet or cover the sides and bottom of the fuse as they have plenty of laser cut holes. If you sheet the sides then you'll have to transition the new sheeting with the original plan sheeting of the fuse top (turtle deck & fore deck). To avoid covering you might consider using the "push out" pieces of the fuse sides and bottom as templates to fab 1/16" balsa inserts or just reinsert those pieces.[/list]There are some good threads on glassing the wood sheeting with 1/2 oz. material then using Deft & talc to fill the weave. Will result in a very nice finish.
Any way you choose to do this, future repair may be made more difficult - don't know for sure 'cause I've never done this type of covering myself. I recently cartwheeled my Hog Bipe (landing faux pas). It was pretty simple to cut the Ultracote, repair the balsa bits, recover. Not sure what the work effort will look like with a fully sheeted / glassed / painted plane.
Any way you cut it, it looks like you will have still have some covering to do. Not a film like Monokote or Ultracote, but a material like Coverite or light fiberglass.
Good luck and take some pictures and share your project.
09-28-2011, 12:51 PM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
Painting can be difficult. The first model I glassed and painted, I wound up stripping it all off due to weight. I have learned a bit more and now I have painted one that weight is OK. It takes alot of practice to get it right. I would advise starting witha fully sheeted model. When you cover open bays you still have to sand it smooth to get a glass look. If the fabric showing thru does not matter to you then go for it with anything. But sanding open bays is a challange.
09-28-2011, 01:28 PM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
If I hadn't used fabric and paint on a number of models I'd think it was difficult after reading the responses so far. I've built three planes using plastic film, the rest are fabric and paint and although fabric and paint takes longer it's a lot easier and nothing compares as far as looks.
Glassing would not be the best way to cover a hog bipe, fabric would. Do a search on using Koverall and dope, I remember several threads recently and they have all the info you need. There's absolutely no reason to sheet the wing or the fuselage, real biplanes have open bay wings and stringers on the fuselage. There's also no reason to fill the fabric with so much paint that you can't see the weave, on real fabric covered planes the weave is clearly visible. You only need enough dope so there are no pinholes between the threads and enough colored dope to make a nice even color.
The Super Stinker pictured came in at 13-1/2 lbs with fabric and paint. All the old reviews I read came between 14 and 15-1/2 lbs. with monokote, so fabric and paint does not have to be heavy.
Glassing would not be the best way to cover a hog bipe, fabric would. Do a search on using Koverall and dope, I remember several threads recently and they have all the info you need. There's absolutely no reason to sheet the wing or the fuselage, real biplanes have open bay wings and stringers on the fuselage. There's also no reason to fill the fabric with so much paint that you can't see the weave, on real fabric covered planes the weave is clearly visible. You only need enough dope so there are no pinholes between the threads and enough colored dope to make a nice even color.
The Super Stinker pictured came in at 13-1/2 lbs with fabric and paint. All the old reviews I read came between 14 and 15-1/2 lbs. with monokote, so fabric and paint does not have to be heavy.
09-28-2011, 01:40 PM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
Don't see any mention of Sig Coverall for the wings. I used it on my Midwest Super Stearman (actually it was a recover, was originally an iron on) and was very pleased with the result.
It's paintable and it's as tough as.
Terry
It's paintable and it's as tough as.
Terry
09-28-2011, 07:21 PM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
G'day
I have just built a Sig Astrohog and I covered it with Solatex (iron on cloth). It is brilliant stuff. It is very easy to iron on, far easier than Monocote as it will stretch around compound curves quite well.
I am also in the process (a very long and slow one) of building a Sig quarter scale Clipped Wing Cub. I have covered it with Sig Coverall. It too is a cloth but it needs to be held on with dope or you can use a heat sensitive glue like Sig Stixit (which I have not used) or Solafilm's Balsaloc (which I often use). Balsaloc is water based but I think Stixit is solvent based. You then tighten it with your heat iron (easy) then dope it with thinned dope to seal it then a few coats of dope followed by primer and paint. It is easy to get carried away with the paint finish and end up with a very heavy plane.
Back to Solatex. It is my favourite covering. It comes pre-painted with an epoxy paint and is very fuel proof for the glow fuels that I have thrown at it. It can be painted also as well but you do not need to paint it. I use small tins of enamel paint to paint stripes etc on top of it.
Solatex comes in two types - standard solid colour and a translucent which is called "classic". The solid colour is mostly solid but you can see really dark marks through it and good preparation is necessary for a good result. A coat of clear over the solid does help to deepen the colour. The standard paint finish is flat.
Most of my larger planes are Solatex covered. I have only completed one plane which was Coverall covered but I have seen plenty where I used to fly. Sadly, many were very pretty but also very heavy with the expected results.
Cheers
Mike in Oz
The attached picture is a Kadet Senior covered in two different Solatex colours - red and Cub yellow.
I have just built a Sig Astrohog and I covered it with Solatex (iron on cloth). It is brilliant stuff. It is very easy to iron on, far easier than Monocote as it will stretch around compound curves quite well.
I am also in the process (a very long and slow one) of building a Sig quarter scale Clipped Wing Cub. I have covered it with Sig Coverall. It too is a cloth but it needs to be held on with dope or you can use a heat sensitive glue like Sig Stixit (which I have not used) or Solafilm's Balsaloc (which I often use). Balsaloc is water based but I think Stixit is solvent based. You then tighten it with your heat iron (easy) then dope it with thinned dope to seal it then a few coats of dope followed by primer and paint. It is easy to get carried away with the paint finish and end up with a very heavy plane.
Back to Solatex. It is my favourite covering. It comes pre-painted with an epoxy paint and is very fuel proof for the glow fuels that I have thrown at it. It can be painted also as well but you do not need to paint it. I use small tins of enamel paint to paint stripes etc on top of it.
Solatex comes in two types - standard solid colour and a translucent which is called "classic". The solid colour is mostly solid but you can see really dark marks through it and good preparation is necessary for a good result. A coat of clear over the solid does help to deepen the colour. The standard paint finish is flat.
Most of my larger planes are Solatex covered. I have only completed one plane which was Coverall covered but I have seen plenty where I used to fly. Sadly, many were very pretty but also very heavy with the expected results.
Cheers
Mike in Oz
The attached picture is a Kadet Senior covered in two different Solatex colours - red and Cub yellow.
09-29-2011, 09:05 AM
#14
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
I have been modeling since the 60’s – starting with doped silkspan and silk covered controlline planes. In the 80’s, after I started R/C, I tried Monokote on a few models. It was quicker and looked pretty good. Although I did not like the “plastic toy” look that it gave my planes, I have seen Monokote coverings done by some real craftsmen around here that are absolutely gorgeous – it’s just that having built only two Monokote models I have never developed those skills.
Back to the subject: How to paint instead of monokote
I have used and am familiar with the following products and will share my thoughts. Keep in mind that these are only my thoughts and are certainly open to comments, questions, and emotional outbursts.
Fabric:
Koverall – Great product, lightweight dacron fabric, fairly easy to get, heat shrinkable after gluing to framework, strong and resists damage well.
Stits Poly-Fiber – Another great product, lightweight dacron fabric (although it seems a little heavier than Koverall – I could be wrong here – I haven’t weighed it). It must be glued to the framework, heat shrunk, etc., just like Koverall. A real advantage of the Stits Lite is that it is supplied in long, wide rolls which make laying out and cutting the the various cover patterns a lot easier to figure out, especially if you are covering a large plane.
Fabric Attachment:
Nitrate Dope – Works well, easy to brush on. I use it in a pinch when I am out of more traditional adhesives, especially on tail group surfaces. I have heard that it is not fuel proof, but I have no experience with the problem.
Sig Stix-It – Good product but a little hard to find (like most Sig products although I hear of their return to the marketplace). If you coat the edges of the framework with Stix-It, the directions say that it can be heat activated to adhere the fabric. Since it is a solvent based product, I just embed the fabric into a wet coat of the product and use a little solvent (MEK) to help the glue penetrate the fabric.
Stits Poly-Tak – Since I started using this product on model airplanes, I believe that I will always keep a can on hand. It seems almost identical to Stix-It, except that it is very easy to get. I apply it the same way as I did Stix-It. One other use that I have found for it is for fuelproofing engine compartments and other components that need to be fuelproofed. When fuelproofing, I just thin it with MEK until it brushes easily. It dries very quickly, so a re-coat can be done almost as soon as you finish the first coat. Let dry overnight before use.
Dopes:
Nitrate Dope – Used to seal the fabric. The first coat is usually brushed on and the second coat is usually sprayed. I used to use Sig dopes until they became unavailable. After Sig, I switched to Brodak – good products, great service and available at my LHS.
Stits Poly-Brush – I’m not real sure what this product is, but it seems to be identical both in function and use as nitrate dope. Anyway, I use it the very same way. One really nice thing about Poly-Brush is that it has a slight red tint to it making it very easy to see where you have already been. If any of you have tried to apply clear nitrate to fabrics, you know the problem of trying to figure out where you have or have not already applied the paint. Like nitrate, the first coat is usually brushed on and the second coat is sprayed. Don’t worry about brush marks with the first coat because it seems to be self-leveling. Also, brushing seems to seal the fabric better than spraying and does a better job of eliminating pin holes.
Butyrate Dope – After the fabric is sealed with Nitrate or Poly-Brush, then begins the build-up of color coats. Again, I used to use Sig dopes, but switched to Brodak as mentioned above. I usually spray at least two coats of color. Yes, the fabric weave will show through slightly with only two coats. Multiple coats and wet sanding with 400 grit in between coats will eliminate this, but is only necessary for “best of show” quality. I usually spray a coat of clear butyrate over everything after I am finished with the colors for a high gloss. I might mention that butyrate dope is sensitive to blushing if sprayed in high humidity. This can be eliminated be adding retarder to the paint when spraying or just wait until the next day and spray a coat of dope thinner over the surface – the blush will go away like it was never there. Butyrate is fuel proof.
Stits Poly-Spray – I think this is butyrate dope with an aluminum pigment and can be applied directly after the Poly-Brush. The nice thing about this is the aluminum pigment. It gives a great silver color to the plane and makes a terrific base (or primer – so to speak) for additional color coats. Usually, you will need only one coat of this, but if you want to hide the fabric weave, this is where you can spray then wet sand as many times as you wish in order to get the look that you want.
Stits Poly-Tone – This is just butyrate dope. They have a nice selection of colors as well as clear. I usually apply two coats followed by a clear coat as mentioned above.
Instead of Butyrate or Poly-Tone color coats, I have also used a Stits product called Aero-Thane. It is a two-part polyurethane paint and takes a little skill to use it correctly. If you use something like this, you will be really impressed with the finish. Again, it’s a little pricey and I would probably not use it on anything other than a “show quality” plane.
You will find other threads in RCU about using latex paints, Rustoleum, polyurethane varish, etc. I have never used these, but their use seems intriguing, their results can be amazing, they are easy to come by (Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc.), and economical.
There are many good products on the market for finishing a model. Although it would be hard for me to recommend any in particular, it would seem that a beginner to fabrics would be hard pressed to find a better supplier than Stits Lite for your finishing supplies. They have everything that you need for finishing your model – from balsa fillers to the final coat. Their company is a spin-off of a company that manufactures finishing products for the aviation industry. They have great product support, application instructions, and can ship almost anything immediately. After you have used them on a project or two, you will have developed the skills to try some of the other suppliers and develop your own methods of covering and finishing. Just look around this website – there are almost as many ways to cover as there are members. Do what works for you and what you are comfortable with.
Charles
09-29-2011, 10:10 PM
#16
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
USE THE FORCE LUKE! Enjoy the advancements in the hobby, such as Monokote, CA, and digital trims. Unless you have experience with painting a model, the odds of creating a finish better than Monokote is slim to none. If you want to step back in time for nostalgic reasons, paint away. But Monokote makes covering repairs a breeze. If you ding a painted plane, plan on spending many more hours working on the finish again. I have painted 30 to 40 fiberglass/composite planes and love the finish - but the law of diminishing returns is unavoidable.
Kurt
Kurt
09-30-2011, 02:38 AM
#17
RE: How to paint instead of monokote
Brad, as you can see, there are a lot of options to painting a plane. You should ask yourself some questions before you start down this road. What is the fuel source for your Hog Bipe? What are your skills and abilities? What tools do you have, ie. compressor, spray gun, etc. All of these things will infuence your choices of covering and paint. If I wanted a fabric covering but wanted the easiest application, I'd probably go with a pre-colored Solartex. If you use glow fuel, the paint you choose will need to be fuel proof or compatable with a fuel proofer. If you go electric, the paint choices are much easier, like rattle cans from the hardware store. Lots to consider.
09-30-2011, 02:53 PM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
ORIGINAL: smithcreek
The Super Stinker pictured came in at 13-1/2 lbs with fabric and paint. All the old reviews I read came between 14 and 15-1/2 lbs. with monokote, so fabric and paint does not have to be heavy.
The Super Stinker pictured came in at 13-1/2 lbs with fabric and paint. All the old reviews I read came between 14 and 15-1/2 lbs. with monokote, so fabric and paint does not have to be heavy.
This paint job is the reason Ihave not used prepainted solartex. Iwould not know how to go about painting the details larger than stripes.
10-01-2011, 04:48 AM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
ORIGINAL: stevenmax50
That is a really nice paint job. What wingspan is the plane. I am not familier with that model.
This paint job is the reason I have not used prepainted solartex. I would not know how to go about painting the details larger than stripes.
That is a really nice paint job. What wingspan is the plane. I am not familier with that model.
This paint job is the reason I have not used prepainted solartex. I would not know how to go about painting the details larger than stripes.
I've read a few comments saying your first paint job won't look as good as monokote. That might be true, it also might not, depends on the persons abilities, and if they've done a little research and prep work and how complicated they get on the color scheme. Also depends on what you think looks good, I can't stand most arfs with all the multiple swishes and swoops and 8 different colors.
The first kit you build might not look as good as an ARF, and you won't do as good a job covering it as someone in china would, but it you let that stop you, you'll never build a kit to begin with. So yeah, don't expect your first paint job to be perfect, use it as a learning experience. The one thing to keep in mind on your fist paint job is if you have to decide between light weight and good looks, go with light weight. Keep the color scheme simple so you don't have multiple coats on top of each other.
A color scheme doesn't need to be complicated to look good. Here's a Phaeton 90. The whole fuse is red except the stab and stripe, the wings are silver with a read leading edge. Simple.
10-01-2011, 05:50 AM
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RE: How to paint instead of monokote
You need not apply your first, second, third or fourth paint job to your RC planes.
One of the helpfull tips in the Higley book is to take empty cereal boxes and paint on a primer coat, then you have a good base to practice painting on. You get better with each box, you get to practice new techniques, you can tell if a paint is going to be compatible with your primer or clear coat if you use one. Also you can put the box in your car and let it sit in the sun and see how the colors handle the sun. "You don't want to paint a plane red then have it fade to pink by the end of the flying season.
Wile it's true that paint is expensive, it's cheaper than learning on models. You only need to look at the cost as paying for education.
One of the helpfull tips in the Higley book is to take empty cereal boxes and paint on a primer coat, then you have a good base to practice painting on. You get better with each box, you get to practice new techniques, you can tell if a paint is going to be compatible with your primer or clear coat if you use one. Also you can put the box in your car and let it sit in the sun and see how the colors handle the sun. "You don't want to paint a plane red then have it fade to pink by the end of the flying season.
Wile it's true that paint is expensive, it's cheaper than learning on models. You only need to look at the cost as paying for education.