Alex4690

Hi everyone,
I've been flying my Avistar 40 for about a year now and am looking to upgrade to something with a little more power and that has more agility. Part of me really likes the bi planes however I am unsure as to whether that would be too much given my skill level. I've only been flying about a year now. Does anyone have any good ideas for what a good step up from the Avistar 40 would be?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Look at the tower Kaos or any of there fun fly planes. I went right from solo to the Up-Roars. They are cheap, easy to build and really fun to fly. If one got away from me I just built another one to fly the next week. They are now in ARF form too. Something you can transfer all your gear into.

Alex4690

Wow I looked at some videos of this plane and it most certainly looks like it would get the job done for my next plane. Do you have any other ideas? Also with the Kaos what are your thoughts on running a 60 motor in it?

gene6029

Alex4690, Heres a pic of my(recovered) Tower Kaos with an OS 55AX. I guess you could put a 60 in there but the 55 really hauls the mail...Gene

Alex4690

gene6029 that looks great! Im leaning more and more towards that plane. Im looking for a good ARF kit right now

oldtyme

I'm really a GP Big Stick 60 fan. I've flown Sticks since the early 80's and have never been without one........either a 40 or 60 size. It will fly slow or tear the skies up. I have one now with an OS91FX in it but I've also had an OS61FX in it and it seemed to fly faster with the 61 than with the 91. Anyway, do yourself a favor and look seriously at the GP Big Stick 60.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

The Kaos is a Joe Bridi design from the 70s and competed in the class C pattern event, won the nats 3 times. It's about a perfect airplane and comes in different sizes, just not in an ARF. In kit form you can go to Blue Jay and look at a lot of the Bridi designs but these are builders kits. The kits comes in a 60 size if you want to build one for a .60. The .55 is about as big as I would go in the little 40 size ARF. A .46 is about perfect for it so the .55 would be a good choice for more power.
The sticks were designed as a fun fly plane and also aother good choice. I just happen to like the Bridi designs a big bunch. Last one I built was the Dirty Birdy 60 size and I used the SK .91 engine in it. Great engine and only $100.00 with a muffler.
If you just look around a little you may find something you like a lot more? Do go look at the Blue Jay web site. Mr. Bridi designed a bunch of outstanding planes. Look at trhe Ultra Sport too at tower, grand son of Kaos. Don't pass over the fun fly planes though. They are a kick to fly too.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

This is one of my most favorite planes. If set up right, it flys like it is on rails and will do anything a Sportsman Pattern pilot would demand of it. Mine has an OS .75 AX and flys just great.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYXG7&P=7

CGr.

jmcowart

I would really suggest the Big Stik .60. It fills all your standards, is a great ARF to assemble, and flys like a dream. Low throws it makes a great intermediate step up to a full pattern plane as a next step.. Mike.

cutaway

With a little more throws, a little faster rates, the CG moved back a tad, and a .46 spinning something like a 10x8, that Avistar you already have becomes pretty sporty.

DenverJayhawk

+1 Get yourself a Stik. Preferably the 60 size. You will not regret it. It's easy to fly (and repair), aerobatic, laughs at high wind, and comes to a crawl on landing. You actually start to look forward to dead stick landings.

1320Fastback

Flatten the wing, clip the tips, add barn door ailerons and a .46 and enjoy your new favorite plane.

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

Try this one......it will fly like a banshee, but land like a trianer.....Yea it's ugly, and it helps to add white covering to know which side is up, but it's sweet....and best of all.......easy on the wallet...


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGGM2&P=ML

1320Fastback

Yea the Phoenix Strega is a nice plane also and wouldn't be all that difficult as a second plane.

I really like mine. Its mostly stock except that I opened the covering up to beef up the landing gear blocks and also laterally balanced it before recovering.
Power is from a Magnum Pro .45 with a Macs X-long header and a home made pipe.

ES CONTROL

Alex , Go to one of those hobby stores that has the Great Planes G6 simulator with all the expan. packs, and test drive.

cap10b

All,
Been teaching for a long time. My progression


1. Start with a cabin highwing of some kind Not a cub. Preferable a .45 size tricicle. Anything smaller than a .25 size is too sensitive to wind.
2. Next A Great Planes Sportster. I am not a Stick man never have never will be. That being said Sticks fly great but teach bad
habits to novice flyers Because they do fly great. (teach bad habits on landing, takeoff all aspects of flying)
a. Learn to drive down the runway with a tail dragger and NOT veer off the centerline no matter which way the wind blows.
b. I had an 8 yr old kid doing crosswind take offs and crab landings with his trainer to the howling and beratment of the peanut gallery as non of them could do such manuevars.
3. Learn to Fly a Cap 21.
a. I tell my students if you can learn to fly a Cap , ie.. take off , fly the pattern, land no matter which way the wind blows and not crash. You can fly anything,. And I mean ANY THING.

I've also teach older students that want to get into warbirds but don't have one. I tell them get something that resembles the flight envelope of what you want to fly. Again a Cap 21 , Cap10b, SBach 342 anything thats fast and has a higher wing loading that a Sportser will do. Again learn to drive down the runway and not veer off the centerline. Learn to do touch and go's no matter which way the wind blows. Learn to land into the wind and down wind. When you can do that.........You will have learned !

As quickly as you can snatch the pebble from my hand.
When you can grasp the pebble it will be time for you to fly.

jds

dignlivn

Another GP Big Stik 60 suggestion here.


Mine has an OS 120 4 stroke on it and its
a set up as a tail drager.


Bob

mrmustang1976

I am with1320fastback if all your looking for is a little more speed put some more motor on the avistar. Maybe turn it into a taildrager. you know this airframe and are comfortable with it. We pushed this airframe to 130mph. it was a taildrager with a jett .50. i know theres alot of people that are going to say there is no way. but its the truth. on radar 130mph. not saying you should just saying there is alot more to be had out of the airframe you already have. if you start really pushing it. say past 100. seal your hinge gaps make sure there hinged real good too. maybe convert it to bolt down wing. the west .50 works really well too. i really am not suggesting either of these motors for you becuse i don't know your experience level. but simply saying if what your looking for is more speed the airframe will handle quite a bite of motor if you decide to go that way. good luck with what ever you do decide.

ES CONTROL

Alex , Follow your heart !!! . OK.   

hugger-4641

My Feedback: (6)

I would suggest taking a look at the GP Escapade or a Tower Hobbies Uproar or Dazzler. All of these are good second planes can use all of the guts from the Avistar if you need to save $.

buzzard bait

I love my LA Racer 40 from World Models. Quality is good, including all the hardware. It is easy to fly but very capable. Similar to an Escapade but slightly larger, and lighter weight...mine is 4 1/2 pounds.

But I can't argue with a Tower Kaos, or an Uproar, depending on the kind of flying you want to do.

Jim

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

Please share with us what the bad habits are. Thanks.

Kurt

cap10b

Bozarth,
My students that flew sticks before flying tail draggers had to learn to drive the plane down the runway all over again. They tended to yank the planes off early because they were unsure trying to take off. They developed what I call the Stick flop where they came over the threshold and chopped the power and tried to elevator their way to landings. You see them hunt for the runway with porposing all the way down to the ground. (I witnessed a full size pilot do this in a Sabre 80 once with an RC/chief pilot eating his ass out every foot of the way to stop hunting for the runway.) I have never forgotten that lesson.

Don't get me wrong I am not "Hateing sticks" but just saying students think that a stick is going to prepare them for higher performance planes have it wrong. Sticks are good aileron trainers they are good at simple aerobatics, good at teaching attitude recovery and teaching students about stalls and snaps. But landing is always so easy students forget to fly. When they transition to a tail dragger (usually a warbird they are behind the power curve and have to hustle to catch up.)

My students that move from trainer to low wing or mid wing tail dragger fair better at transition simple because they learn to use the rudder early in their flying. Once a student loses his shyness about the rudder a whole new deminsion is added to flying. They can now actually taxi in a cross wind, land in a cross wind, do coordinated turns (this really helps warbird pilots). This is something a stick cannot give them even up to the 30cc version of the plane.

Students that fail to learn how to drive down the runway and hug the center line almost always have trouble with higher performance planes later in their careers. Guys that I taught from a .50 size sport plane, where they avoided using the rudder, now faced with a 85cc Corsair lined up on the runway, can look forward to a tremendous challenge.

See the rice paper, fragile as the wings of a butterfly, clinging as the cocoon of the silk worm when you can
taxi its length and leave no trace you will have learned.


Johnny Snead
Webmaster
NDRCC

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

Johnny,

Your experiences are interesting. What about the poor guy who shows up with a tail dragger stick?

Kurt

Pylonracr

As for the original poster, get a stick. You will love it. I have been flying for over 25 years and have never been without a stick in my hanger. As for Cap10B, ALL of my sticks in the past 12 years have been taildraggers. They are easy to fly and land, but you do have to fly them down the runway to take off and land correctly. Any plane your are comfortable with can teach you bad habbits. I have a Twist with a madified ax55 on it, and I can yank it off the ground with no takeoff roll if I want.

A stick is a great transition plane because it can do intermediate to advanced precision aeorbatics, while making the pilot comfortable flying. That is what it takes to become a better pilot.

Just my opinion.
Scott