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  1. #201

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer

    starting to feel this was a troll post.. got us all good... trying to help.. reaching out to a new flyer and trying to make a positive experiance ...

    but in the end .. it is th OP's choice.....

    etheir way good luck...

    That damn Tampaflyer trying to be nice he hasn't learned yet ....

  2. #202
    lopflyers's Avatar
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    I guess there are a lot of people out there angry because they don't fit in any clubs.
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  3. #203
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    Just checked his post in 2 other threads, all about not joining a Club, has sim time, foamy and trainer. Blah, Blah, Blah! same show just different thread.
    AMA# 875307
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  4. #204
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    Combatpigg: It's silly to draw comparisons between this stuff and full scale flight.  

    Not at all, both relate to each other. I've been flying RC since '68 (that plane had no ailerons, so rudder was mandatory!), and full-scale instructor since '80 with over 15K hours. Like Hossfly and others have pointed out, those who use rudder minimally are drivers, not pilots.

    The reason rudder use is minimal in many modern aircraft (full-size and models) is because many of the bad habits have been engineered out. There is less adverse yaw because the ailerons have higher aspect ratio (narrower chord), and differential is sometimes built in. Look at a 172 vs. a Cub as an example: The 172, being a newer design, has long, thin ailerons with some built-in differential, and produces less adverse yaw. The older Cub has wide, 'barn-door' ailerons with little differential and lots of adverse yaw which needs lots of rudder to coordinate the turn. The 172 still needs rudder to coordinate the turn, just less of it.

    We have a chap in our club who has a 1/4-scale Cub. He's had several near-crashes on takeoff, once wound up in the pits narrowly missing two planes, because he's not proficient on rudder. Rudder use is important !

    I don't believe you're a troll, but I would encourage you to join a club. It's not wise to fly alone unless it's a Vapor or other tiny aircraft, and the camaraderie is really great. My best buddies are RCers! 
    I might not be very good, but I'm fun to watch!

  5. #205

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    I would encourage you to join a club. It's not wise to fly alone unless it's a Vapor or other tiny aircraft, and the camaraderie is really great. My best buddies are RCers!
    Well put. I've been in a club for nearly 4 years now. I have a really good time whenever I go to the club, often times a really great time. To get the most of out a club, don't go there as a know-it-all. Be sociable, flexible and positive. You'll get out of it exactly what you put into it.

    I've visited many clubs in my area and the vibe of some clubs is different to others. Some are quite officious and love their rules. Others are full of cowboys and some dangerous stuff goes on. I prefer somewhere in the middle but even if either of the extremes was my only choice, I'd still go to a club. The camaraderie is second to none and I always learn things from others, even from the newbies.

  6. #206
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: eddieC

    Combatpigg:Β*It's silly to draw comparisons between this stuff and full scale flight.Β*Β*

    Not at all, both relate to each other. I've been flying RC since '68 (that plane had no ailerons, so rudder was mandatory!), and full-scale instructor since '80 with over 15K hours. Like Hossfly and others have pointed out, those who use rudder minimally are drivers, not pilots.

    The reason rudder use is minimal in many modern aircraft (full-size and models) is because many of the bad habits have been engineered out. There is less adverse yaw because the ailerons have higher aspect ratio (narrower chord), and differential is sometimes built in. Look at a 172 vs. a Cub as an example: The 172, being a newer design, has long, thin ailerons with some built-in differential, and produces less adverse yaw. The older Cub has wide, 'barn-door' ailerons with little differential and lots of adverse yaw which needs lots of rudder to coordinate the turn. The 172 still needs rudder to coordinate the turn, just less of it.

    We have a chap in our club who has a 1/4-scale Cub. He's had several near-crashes on takeoff, once wound up in the pits narrowly missing two planes, because he's not proficient on rudder. Rudder use is important !

    I don't believe you're a troll, but I would encourage you to join a club. It's not wise to fly alone unless it's a Vapor or other tiny aircraft, and the camaraderie is really great. My best buddies are RCers!Β*
    The vast majority of RC planes that I've flown and what I've seen others fly don't need rudder to perform nice, tidy turns. My main point is that there is always plenty of time to learn the rudder as a beginning pilot after you've mastered the basics of flight. In the case of a newbie pilot who has not demonstrated basic control mastery, I'd tell him /her to forget about the entire left side of the TX and just do some big laps around the field with the right stick only.
    We'll worry about the left stick later.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  7. #207

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: YearningtoFly

    i fly a 4 channel t-28 in the park.....I purposefully stayed out of 3 channel aslearned from the getgo with rudder on the sim

    i tighten my turns with judiciousrudder...maybe im doing it wrong

    never been up with himwasdirected to him from the field

    in our conversation i mentioned coordinated flight, shallow bank angles and rudder usage

    and that iswhen he advised me about not using or even touching the rudder with him

    i wanted to join at this field due to the bisecting runways

    but might look into the other club in tampa

    Well I initially thought he was off the mark but now that you describe your shallow banks and and tightening turns with judicious rudder...it appears you do need to relearn a bit and he was probably not far off. The rudder is there only to make coordinated turns. Ailerons and bank are what turn the aircraft and you tighten turns with bank/aileron. not rudder.

    \"Of course, that\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" the other Dennis Miller

  8. #208

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: 4*60

    Well I initially thought he was off the mark but now that you describe your shallow banks and and tightening turns with judicious rudder...it appears you do need to relearn a bit and he was probably not far off. The rudder is there only to make coordinated turns. Ailerons and bank are what turn the aircraft and you tighten turns with bank/aileron. not rudder.

    Rudder is also used to counter the P-factor on takeoff and crosswind takeoffs and landings. More than anything, I wish more people would learn to use the rudder to counteract the P-Factor on takeout and quit scaring the crap out of me. I have seen so many times the pilot give the plane full throttle on takeoff, plane shoots off to the left, off the runway, with no elevator (tail dragger to keep the tail down) to allow good positive steering until takeoff speed is reached. Luckily so far, when they did crash, it was into the fence and bushes. I think I am going to start offering training on this subject the next time it happens. In addition, I am going to include in this training to throttle back to idle when you see you are in trouble instead of crashing full speed into the fence and bushes to limit airframe damage.

    Oops. I know you did not mean ONLY, it just made me think of this subject. Got me on my soapbox for a second. Sorry.




  9. #209
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: YearningtoFly


    ORIGINAL: lopflyers

    Hey Yearningtofly, not everything is lost. You still can belong to a club whether it is in public or private property.
    All you have to do is follow the rules, stay on the box until the instructor certifies you.
    my point is if i meetΒ*certification and posses the requiste ama insurance

    why should i have to be a member of a private club to fly over public lands and facility
    Hmmm, Well could be a good question. Will only say that I learn just as much at the club field when I'm not flying as I do when I'm flying. Looking at other members planes, how the planes are set up, watching how the other planes fly, land, takeoff etc... Watching the flight characteristics of their planes. Keeps me ahhead of the learning curve I think. If I'm putting together a kit, ARF, parkflyer, or whatever, I can call anyone of them for advice and they help me through just about any situation I need help with. IMHO, they are just good people.
    SSGT USMC 75,83 Son Brian USMC Intel/Excelon Energy Corp, Son Matt USMC Air Traffic Control/Penn State

  10. #210

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: YearningtoFly


    ORIGINAL: lopflyers

    Hey Yearningtofly, not everything is lost. You still can belong to a club whether it is in public or private property.
    All you have to do is follow the rules, stay on the box until the instructor certifies you.
    my point is if i meetcertification and posses the requiste ama insurance

    why should i have to be a member of a private club to fly over public lands and facility
    Is this thread really a DUES thing? If so, I can kind of understand your position. We don't pay dues at our club, so I cannot even relate if this is the issue. If dues were expensive, I would probably feel the same way. Sometimes dues can be used as a tool to limit who can join a club (the undersirables), which I would not agree with. Dues can also be used to pay the necessary expenses that clubs have which I would agree with. I was told that our club used to have dues with all the official crap and procedures that goes along with a club. When the members finally got into a huge fight, they split into to two clubs, and that all changed. Now neither club charges dues and do not have officers. There are still safety rules, that should never change. I participate and enjoy both clubs. Even the AMA membership is recommended but not required. I guess we could be considered an outlaw field. Anybody can show up and fly or just visit. Personally, I hope that never changes.


  11. #211
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    Is this thread really a DUES thing? If so, I can kind of understand your position. We don't pay dues at our club, so I cannot even relate if this is the issue. If dues were expensive, I would probably feel the same way. Sometimes dues can be used as a tool to limit who can join a club (the undersirables), which I would not agree with. Dues can also be used to pay the necessary expenses that clubs have which I would agree with. I was told that our club used to have dues with all the official crap and procedures that goes along with a club. When the members finally got into a huge fight, they split into to two clubs, and that all changed. Now neither club charges dues and do not have officers. There are still safety rules, that should never change. I participate and enjoy both clubs. Even the AMA membership is recommended but not required. I guess we could be considered an outlaw field. Anybody can show up and fly or just visit. Personally, I hope that never changes.
    If there are NO DUES who pays for the grass cutting field maintance and most important the Port-A-John? Just wondering. Last year it cost us $52,000 to put an inch and half of asphault on top of our 100' x 750' runway. With out dues and 6 for profit fling events per year we'd be flying off the desert dirt.
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  12. #212

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog


    Is this thread really a DUES thing? If so, I can kind of understand your position. We don't pay dues at our club, so I cannot even relate if this is the issue. If dues were expensive, I would probably feel the same way. Sometimes dues can be used as a tool to limit who can join a club (the undersirables), which I would not agree with. Dues can also be used to pay the necessary expenses that clubs have which I would agree with. I was told that our club used to have dues with all the official crap and procedures that goes along with a club. When the members finally got into a huge fight, they split into to two clubs, and that all changed. Now neither club charges dues and do not have officers. There are still safety rules, that should never change. I participate and enjoy both clubs. Even the AMA membership is recommended but not required. I guess we could be considered an outlaw field. Anybody can show up and fly or just visit. Personally, I hope that never changes.
    If there are NO DUES who pays for the grass cutting field maintance and most important the Port-A-John? Just wondering. Last year it cost us $52,000 to put an inch and half of asphault on top of our 100' x 750' runway. With out dues and 6 for profit fling events per year we'd be flying off the desert dirt.
    At one of the airfields, me and another guy cuts the grass as volunteers. We do not have a porta jon, wish we did, but with no dues that ain't happening (Field is in remote location, so bushes are fine). Our runway is about 600 ft of asphault and grass on loan of a larger private runway. We just get out of the way when he takes off and lands. He lets us know with a fly over. The other airfield is privately owned also. This guy has one of the most amazing fields that he also flies his ultralight from.

    Listen, I understand the dues thing. Clubs have expenses and must be paid by the members. As I said, totally in agreement with that. When I said I understand, he may not can afford the dues which gives him no place to fly in a club. This may frustrate him, because as he mentions it is on public land that the taxpayers pay for, including him. Not realizing there are club expenses that are required just to keep it a decent flying field.

    Oh, and your 100' x 750' runway, VERY NICE. Our asphault is only 10' by 600' (the part loaned to us) it is at the end of about 1/2 mile runway. It also has nice bermuda grass, cactus and thorns on both sides. You get what you pay for, huh? LOL




  13. #213
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    [X(]Ohhhhh, that should be awesome, a club w asphalt runway and no fees.
    Keep your wings level
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  14. #214

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!


    ORIGINAL: lopflyers

    [X(]Ohhhhh, that should be awesome, a club w asphalt runway and no fees.
    Oh it is! Afternoon field with a HUGE flying area over a wheatfield. It is the largest area I have flown in. I flew on HOTMAC's, in Waco,tx, last Summer and felt really cramped for space. Got used to our large open field. Of course, HOTMAC had A LOT better facilities including shade and porta pottys.

    But personally, if it did not have asphault it would not bother me. I can take off and land all the planes I own from grass (well, except for my P-51 with retracts). And that is from my little electrics to my 28% Extra 260. I kinda prefer the grass. Easier on the equipment when you mess up. Also slows the big extra down quicker. You just need to check for holes occasionally. I was taxing my Extra slowly in the grass back to the pits when one side of the gear fell into a hole so big, the left wing hit the ground. You know that was a big hole for that size plane to bottom out. Glad I didn't hit it when I landed!! Darn animals.


  15. #215
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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!




    Rudder is also used to counter the P-factor on takeoff and crosswind takeoffs and landings. More than anything, I wish more people would learn to use the rudder to counteract the P-Factor on takeout and quit scaring the crap out of me. I have seen so many times the pilot give the plane full throttle on takeoff, plane shoots off to the left, off the runway, with no elevator (tail dragger to keep the tail down) to allow good positive steering until takeoff speed is reached. Luckily so far, when they did crash, it was into the fence and bushes. I think I am going to start offering training on this subject the next time it happens. In addition, I am going to include in this training to throttle back to idle when you see you are in trouble instead of crashing full speed into the fence and bushes to limit airframe damage.

    Oops. I know you did not mean ONLY, it just made me think of this subject. Got me on my soapbox for a second. Sorry.




    [/quote]

    In one of the clubs I belong to there was an accident recently due to this, the pilot never applied rt rudder, the plane verged to the left big time and hitted another pilot that was flying peacefully. Common sence, either give rudder or kill the throthle and try again
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  16. #216

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    FEED THE TROOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

  17. #217

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    RE: Gas RC was a mistake !!!!

    Rudder automatically comes to everyone who wants to practice some 3D.


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