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  1. #1
    Hossfly's Avatar
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    Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    Just a thought about something I do most of the time with any non-scale model that has strip ailerons all the way to the tips. Maybe it will be helpfull to some of you folks and not just beginners.

    1. Especially with wings that are less than symetrical, I cut the aileron at about 3 to 4 Inches from the tip. I glue that portion back to the wing with about 3-5 degrees UP. To add a hinge to the end of the remaining aileron is rather easy.

    2.Cut a normal slot in the aileron. Same for the wing if the aileron is not yet fixed in place. Place a hinge in that end area.

    3.If the aileron is already hinged, do the slot in the aileron by bending it down or up and make a slot with a knife. Then cut a small piece of the trailing edge away to accept the other end of the hinge. Then glue it back in place. It's out of sight and it will hold the aileron in place.

    You will be very surprised what this bit of effectively, "washout" does for your slow flight, especially landing speeds. I learned this way back when I found that with Scale Warbirds, Take-offs and Landings became much easier if the entire aileron was raised about 3-8 degrees above the main wing. When it's right, that old booger, Tip-Stall, pretty much disappears.

    The above assumes that you have laterally balanced your model.

    EDITED:
    Didn't mean for two pictures. The cut and redo is not shown here, just the ailerons to full wing length. This was for club racing but since that is over, I cut the aileron 3.5 inches bacl. Landings are smooth and easy. No sudden yaw & r0ll on take-off as before.






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    Horrace Cain AMA L-93

    “Peace is the brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.\" T. Jefferson

  2. #2
    Charlie P.'s Avatar
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    Washout use to be built into about everything.  We've tended away from it. 

    It works by preventing the tips from stalling before the rest of the wing.  Tip stalls are why old timers warn not to start with warbirds.  Some (real and model) had a very nasty tendency to stall violently - even at non-landing speeds when that wing began to stall from maneuvers.  Foamies tend to have some - possibly caused by the wing warping more the further it is from the fuselage.
    Charlie P. (NY) "Gravity is weak but persistant".

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  3. #3

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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    Good idea for planes with strip ailerons. For planes with barn door... mix a little aileron up trim at low throttle.

  4. #4
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    ORIGINAL: Hossfly

    Just a thought about something I do most of the time with any non-scale model that has strip ailerons all the way to the tips. Maybe it will be helpfull to some of you folks and not just beginners.

    1. Especially with wings that are less than symetrical, I cut the aileron at about 3 to 4 Inches from the tip. I glue that portion back to the wing with about 3-5 degrees UP. To add a hinge to the end of the remaining aileron is rather easy.

    2.Cut a normal slot in the aileron. Same for the wing if the aileron is not yet fixed in place. Place a hinge in that end area.

    3.If the aileron is already hinged, do the slot in the aileron by bending it down or up and make a slot with a knife. Then cut a small piece of the trailing edge away to accept the other end of the hinge. Then glue it back in place. It's out of sight and it will hold the aileron in place.

    You will be very surprised what this bit of effectively, ''washout'' does for your slow flight, especially landing speeds. I learned this way back when I found that with Scale Warbirds, Take-offs and Landings became much easier if the entire aileron was raised about 3-8 degrees above the main wing. When it's right, that old booger, Tip-Stall, pretty much disappears.

    The above assumes that you have laterally balanced your model.

    EDITED:
    Didn't mean for two pictures. The cut and redo is not shown here, just the ailerons to full wing length. This was for club racing but since that is over, I cut the aileron 3.5 inches bacl. Landings are smooth and easy. No sudden yaw & r0ll on take-off as before.
    This DOES sound interesting. How does it affect the normal flight and aerobatics capability? In other words, would it do to modify, say a sport plane with shorter ailerons, by adjusting that length of wing at the tip that is not aileron to have a bit of up-angle? Say a Tiger 60 (or similar) as a second plane to give it a bit more ease at landing but remain capable as an aerobatic trainer sport plane?

    CGr
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
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  5. #5
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    Any time you change the stability of an A/C it can change its ability to perform aerobatics. This is not to say that an aerobatic plane can't be stable, but changing the stability can affect its performance ie: increasing the washout can decrease its ability to spin/snap roll.
    The three most useless things to a pilot, the sky above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel on the ground.

  6. #6

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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    I still run into some of the old kits with built in wash. I {THINK} my CG EXTRA was one of them and the SIG Kobra? Been a while sense I built one but as I recall they had tabs on the ribs bottom rear so it was an automatic build in. It works very well and is needed on some types of planes. Most of the kits we have today it isn't necessary but if one of your kit built planes is prone to tip stalling this sounds like a pretty good idea.
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    The Top Flite GE P-51 is built like that, the ribs have tabs on them to build in the wash out.
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  8. #8
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    GB that is wash out you are talking about not "in wash" and its is very beneficial to most modelers in some form or another. Doing a maiden on me new Mosquito in the morn and of course have already reflexed some up in the ailerons.

    John
    \"Keep your controllines tight\"

  9. #9

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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    This post leads into a question i've been wondering about. I picked up a CG Eaglet 50 from another club member recently. It is easily a vintage 80's build in great shape, needs a engine and radio. The ailerons are evenly, slowly, raised up towards the wingtip. Was, or is, that a common practice to put some washout in the ailerons? Also, I have another Eaglet that I fly on occassion with an o.s.25. I think it flies a little Heavy. I need another engine for the Eaglet I recently picked-up. Would an O.S. 15 be a good choice for an Eaglet instead of another .25 Jag215

  10. #10
    Hossfly's Avatar
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds


    ORIGINAL: jag215

    This post leads into a question i've been wondering about. I picked up a CG Eaglet 50 from another club member recently. It is easily a vintage 80's build in great shape, needs a engine and radio. The ailerons are evenly, slowly, raised up towards the wingtip. Was, or is, that a common practice to put some washout in the ailerons?
    I have an old Eaglet up in the shelves that I used for training youngsters for some 5 years. I washed out the wings just like you mentioned. I still cut the ailerons short several inches. Flew great. It just got tattered and as yours, it was a tad heavy. Fox .19 was an excellent power pack for it. Still on it. It could fly again if I wanted it to.

    Also, I have another Eaglet that I fly on occassion with an o.s.25. I think it flies a little Heavy. I need another engine for the Eaglet I recently picked-up. Would an O.S. 15 be a good choice for an Eaglet instead of another .25 Jag215
    Should do well if your Eaglet is on the light side.

    Good Luck!
    Horrace Cain AMA L-93

    “Peace is the brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.\" T. Jefferson

  11. #11
    Charlie P.'s Avatar
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    Another way to get the same effect is to taper the ailerons.

    Note there are several interesting features in this model (Top Flite Contender 60): angled-up wing tips trailing edges (low wing has slightly more lift), tapered silerons that end well inboard of tips, and a central apron flap (the one-piece orange section that extends underneath the fuselage) that drops for low-speed lift.  This wing has no dihedral at all (save the trailing edge of the tips) and yet is very forgiving over a wide range of speeds.



    Another thought is that to help low speed handling the model should be balanced laterally.  If not it will have to be trimmed to fly level, and if trimmed at crusing speed it will likely have different characteristics at lower speed when the wing has less lift.
    Charlie P. (NY) "Gravity is weak but persistant".

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  12. #12
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    RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds

    If you have a better radio, why not put in a "landing" mode with reflex on both ailerons?

    Wouldn't that be simpler than cutting the existing strip ailerons?
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.


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