reelquick

Was at work and talked to a guy who used to fly, and told him I was just ready to get air born. He said to lock my allerions at neutral to start fling solo ?
I know there are alot of teachers on here...is this a good way to start ?
I do fly an electric 3 channel foamie now.....but the whole Idea is to progress to the real deal.

GaryHarris

Too many variables involved, type of plane, amount of dihedral etc.

I vote no.

jester_s1

Old school guys want to do it the old school way. The truth is that way back when that was the standard it wasn't because it was better. It was because 4 channel radios cost more and servos were heavy and expensive so going the rudder only route was a lot cheaper on the newbie. If you're already set up with ailerons, you do have the option to just not use them assuming your plane is a traditional trainer style. But let your instructor show you his way to do it.

Charlie P.

If you lock them square and the dihedral is sufficient it might work.  If you get them off or there isn't enough dihedral you could be worse off (having no way to correct roll). 

It is also easier to bank with ailerons than rudder, but turing when taxiing requires rudder.

RCVFR

My Feedback: (7)

You need to not talk to that guy anymore.

BIGMIG

Well that seems to be a wierd question to me.......What would be the point..????

I'm just a fun flyer and for sure not a great pilot with rc planes.But i get most of my planes in the air and back on the ground in one piece 98 % of the time.

I can see not using "flaps" if your plane is so equiped and you are new at flying............But not using Ailerons when the plane has them.....???? I'm the other way around and don't even use the rudder when flying,just for take off and landing ( i fly mostly tri-landing gear so of course the rudder and nose wheel are tied togeather) for steering.In the air it is motor speed...Ailerons..and elevator....Works great for me.

Most of my flying would be boooring to the younger guys as most of the time i'm flying at half throttle (or slightly more than that ) and injoy just cruising around and keeping it in the air for a while. ( but i have my own field so i get to do things my way to please me ).If i have other flyer's over then its a little different as i don't try to hog all the air time......

BIGMIG

P.S. Being an old "dude" it is fun to open em up and go like hell for a bit......but flat out every flight is not for me.....Have enough fun with the 40 and 60 size trainer type planes,they are just fun and relaxing to fly.I have a stix with a 46 engine and it halls ass and you have to be on top of it all the time.......nice flying plane but is not by any means a relaxing type flight to me.I have a 60 size trainer type plane with a 90 size four-stroke and it has unlimited climbing ability,will do anything i can do with a plane....but most fun for me at slower speeds..... (the old saying...."different strokes for different folks" ) A few of my planes-got a bunchlol

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Hmm seems the key phrase here is "used to fly" be aware there are many out there who 'used to' fly simply because they never quite made it in the first place.

Yes of course locking the ailerons can work and some trainers such as the orginal senior kaydets were intended to fly without ailerons.

Its still a glow plane and it still will be much faster than your foamie in most cases and you will still be flying behind the airplane for a while. Most of all it will still use up more airspace than you ever counted on.

The idea of locking the ailerons so you could 'Solo' without them better or easier or something is: well is a dumb idea. Find that mentor or you are going to bust that airplane without learning a thing, thats for sure.

Heck I have one glow plane that flys with only a rudder and throttle but I sure am not going to let some green flyer loose with it.


John

jetmech05

I disagree with locking out the ailerons....But I also disagree with flying without an instructor...
Good Luck

gene6029

You got good info here to not lock out your ailerons. Reduceing the throw is an option, but I'l let that decision up to your instructor....Gene

jester_s1

I will tell you that using rudder only for your turns will not let you get into trouble nearly as fast. I was working with a beginner once who was over rolling his turns (plane looked like a pylon racer at 30 mph!) and I had him switch to using the rudder only to initiate the turn and the use the ailerons to roll out. Within one training session he was making smooth turns and I didn't have to take it from him a single time after he switched. Then he went back to using the ailerons to initiate the turn and did well because he had a mental picture of how much roll it takes to get the plane to come around.

Charlie P.

I the original "duffer"'s defense - I do recall there were such things.  That is: trainers with ailerons that could be "unlocked" as the student progressed.  These were basically three channel trainers and they were designed to fly without ailerons.  They didn't fly much better with them once they were unlocked, but at least you could see some roll action as a result of moving the ailerons.  For some reason the company MRC comes to mind.

jaka

Hi!
No! That's no good!
Teaching for 36 years.

koastrc

This is one of those things that will come up once in a while. Like one person put it. In the early days of proportional radios all brands I know of offered low end three channels. Rudder, engine, and elevator. Heck I owned one. Many trainers were three channel. Did it work? Yes that system worked great. The question is why would anyone want to go back. Jester is correct as far as I see it about over control of ailerons. A old buddy of mine seen me struggling with a student over controlling. He walks over and gets me to put in some expo. problem solved. That is this time.
There is all sorts of beginners. Some just starting out know a bit of something about flight. We, as us, the guys that have been around forget at times some people just don't understand basic flight control. There is many time some new folks don't have a clue. My son-in-law is just starting out. His first thoughts was the aircraft control was the rudder. Explaining how a ailerons work is a new experience. Add the ailerons and the elevator is still more confusing for some.
Bottom line. Use the ailerons and an instructor if you can find one. It will all be better in the long haul.

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

I disagree on flying without a "Good" instructor also.

A good instructor is someone who flies smoothly and lands smoothly every time. Is a good patient teacher and willing to stand there and teach you how to turn and what ALL the controls on a 4 channel plane are for and when to use them.

Now some bad ones are the ones that get you up in the air flying left hand turn circles and then say, "All right, You just keep turning circles and yell if you need any help", then walks off.

Someone who says you don't need the rudder and not to use it.

Someone who says you don't need ailerons and not to use them.





That guy who used to fly probably used to fly a plane like this one.
Yes you didn't need ailerons on a plane like this. But you do need them on the heavy plywood 60 mph trainers of today.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I have never used three channel to teach with but I did learn {kinda sorta} to fly with a little two channel Cub, it had elevator and rudder, both on one stick/Gimbel. After flying it a few times {never soloed with it} I went over to a giant Sr. Telemaster that had all controls, including flaps. That was my real trainer.
As an instructor I have never removed the ailerons on a plane and don't understand why I would do that to a student?
I just got in a set of plans for the Old Timmer Satyr that is supposed to be a three channel converted free flight plane from 1942. I will be building two of them, one for myself and one as a gift to a friend. Both will be electric powered and three channel. Both will be set up with the elevator and rudder on the right stick.
I love flying three channels, it's very relaxing but it is nothing I would ever teach with. I guess I could though, a lot of the glider/trainers are three channel.
I wouldn't say your friend is completely wrong, it is just something we don't do these days. We have the buddy box to train with and a student can't do anything to the plane I can't correct but there are a lot of people flying today that learned with a Gentle Lady or Butterfly three channel. Even more that learned on the Kaydet that John mentioned.

ec121

My Feedback: (2)

First look for an instructor, but if you have to try flying by yourself, try cutting the aileron throw down and moving both sticks(rud+ail) together(a coordinated turn). That is the same as using a three channel radio with a little aileron mixed in. You can develop muscle memory and also use the ailerons to level the plane. BUT you must eventually learn to use the ailerons independently. Most trainers don't have enough dihedral to be stable with fixed ailerons. Just for fun I have tried to fly them without using the ailerons. It will work but it is a struggle. Lots of opposite rudder has to be used for corrections. The plane sort of wallows out of a turn. I also tried no ailerons on my 33%ers. That doesn't work at all!!!

Ladyflyer

My Feedback: (2)

Most trainers will turn just fine on rudder , sans aileron . Most trianers have sufficient dihedral and work well . It is indeed easy enough to test beforehand .

I have used many trainers for many students with the ailerons disabled . In some cases it proved extremely helpful as a bridge and confidence builder . We had one instructor who basically forbade students from learning on 3 channel "blankety blank" trainers . He also had a few long time "students" that had tried for months but were unable to solo . I worked with a couple of them for less than a day and had both taking off and landing quite well .

Hydro Junkie

This thread has me torn in two directions:
Agreeing that ailerons are a good thing as learning to fly without them would be problematic at best
Agreeing that ailerons are not needed after building a Sig Kadet Jr that was designed with significant amounts of dihedral and no ailerons. The directions even say to connect the rudder to the right stick to learn how to use ailerons but not how to use a rudder.
Since my first Kadet was destroyed in a move before it was ever flown, I'm building another one from plans with all the diredral removed and barn door ailerons three bays wide added to an extended wing. It won't be an aerobatic plane by any means but it will be one that flys

rgburrill

One of the main reasons I can think of for a new guy to spend a little more on the transmitter is to get exponential capability. You can really soften the responsiveness of the first half or more of stick travel and still get full travel if you need it. Use that with both ailerons and rudder and you will probably get better a lot quicker. And as you improve you reduce teh exponential to more linearity.

thepamster

After learning how to fly a Piece of Cake powered glider this is how I taught myself building that Kadet Jr. no ailerons and with rudder on the right stick. It worked for me.
That plane however had lots of dihedral so it was a good candidate for no ailerons. I did ultimately learn how to coordinate rudder in turns but a few planes down the road. It is habbit now while turning a plane if it needs rudder input I add it automatically without even thinking about it.
Listen to your instructer.

Chucksolo69

I learned on 3 channel planes and am currently flying a 4 channel PZ T-28 Trojan with great success. The thing is, 3 channel or 4 channel, you will still use the right stick to bank/turn the plane. I personally don't use much rudder on my 4 channel either, just to taxi and maybe land sometimes. The key for me was to use the dual rates on my Spektrum DX6i. I basically just turned down the throws to aileron and rudder to 60% and elevator to 75% and went from there. It made my Trojan much easier to control. As I get more comfortable with it, I may just turn the D/R off and run the control surfaces at 100%. Locking out the ailerons on a 4 channel plane is really not a good idea. After all, if you want to fly a 3 channel plane, buy a 3 channel plane. Very strange advice.

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

Why getting into the habit of not using the ailerons?
If a new pilot is over banking the plane, there is mostly too much throw, take the rates down.
I remember a long time ago when people told me that everyone should start with a free flight glider, then 2 channel glider, then put a motor on this - and after that you might try a 3 channel plane....after a few seasons you might be able to fly solo...
If you want to learn fast and efficient, use all 4 channels on your trainer.
Most important things is getting a good instructor - one who can also teach rudder skills.
And get a simulator - it always pays off and get you started.
I learned like this and soloed after a short instruction session.
And a good pilot never stops learning...

reelquick

This is really good info !
I really appreciate all the input from instructor's !
And first time flyer`s.
I did teach my self how to fly(hover) a Raptor 50 heli, and I wish I would have went to an instructor ..
Thats why I`m here.........

Not gonna make that mistake again.
Got a SIM, Love it ! ( But NO where near the same thing, but handy).
Got AMA.
Joined a club.
Starting over with a trainer I got when I was 12,Hobbico .40 mono balsa.

NOT GOING TO PUT THE WINGS ON IT TILL I HAVE A BUDDY BOX CONNECTED TO MY CARCASS.
Thank you everyone for all the input.

Ladyflyer

My Feedback: (2)

Theory and conjecture aside , I have seen real world success in teaching problem students on three channel birds .The main thing was , after months of trying they quickly sloloed on a three channel plane with minimal coaching. Once they gain confidence and become comfortable with take off and landing it is so easy to move the rudder to the other stick .
BTW: The Bridi Trainer series turn well on rudder , as does the current Toledo Special !
Heck , my first plane had a single channel , no elevator , ailerons or throttle .

You can learn either way but there is certainly nothing wrong with learning on a three channel setup.

reelquick

Oh! And SLOW is fine with me as well, I just want to ENJOY the day.
Love tuna fishing....but it`s work.
I`ll be crabbing tomorrow....because I need a day to relax.