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  1. #26

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    I like your sentiment on doin the search first... however, if the search does no yield satisfactory results.... ASK!!! We are happy to help if we can, only a few on here do no enjoy helping, the only dumb questions are those not asked. as far as the search goes when you are new to something.....it's pretty useless anyhow

  2. #27
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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Oh no, don't be afraid to ask. We like helping new people because we were new some time ago and we got help.
    Believe me it is the only way. I crashed 7 planes, I mean total destruction, before I got into a club, buddy box, instructor.

    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  3. #28

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?


    ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

    Electric power is no different then any other, just very quiet and clean compared to the rest. Sense the advent of the better batteries they have become very popular for all flying. Even choppers. The fellow we were flying with today was flying his electric powered Heli.
    It's a dry heat!! Sort of like fire!! We moved here for a number of reasons, one was the weather, the dry and warm part. Old body likes dry heat!! Young body liked the beach!

    ah ok. do you still get the same amount of power output or is electric weaker? and that picture is that like just before a crash? it looks like a second after the camera take photo that man have very very bad day haha. it is like right at the ground! knowing some of you pilots out there he probably has some trick and barely saves it in time. you see if i were at controls it would be a game of 52 pick up lol helicopter must be easier to fly because they dont always fly forward and you can stop and hover, no? well for me it is the opposite. i love the cold and snow i grew up skiing and ice skating. i have never been anywhere hotter than probably 90 degree farenheit. we dont have warm wter beaches here at all... we have many beaches its just the wake and the water are so cold you would freeze to solid in them lol


  4. #29

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    7 airplanes? that is insane. i guess you learned from each mistake. each crash builds better skills i assume. i just hope i dont crash mine so in a way crashing is not 100% bad. can you glue or rebuild them after crash or do you just salvage electric parts? i imagine somthings you could save. like the black boxes that move control surface or the battery or reciever or something. i am glad i am going through a club to start so i dont fall down same road lol
    ORIGINAL: lopflyers

    Oh no, don't be afraid to ask. We like helping new people because we were new some time ago and we got help.
    Believe me it is the only way. I crashed 7 planes, I mean total destruction, before I got into a club, buddy box, instructor.

  5. #30

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Alena23,

    Welcome to the Addiction..  Most of us started out like you, one trainer.. Now after about 30 years or so, I have about 30 planes in different states of completion..  so just be ready to feed your addition..  also, the tricks and stunts will come to you as your flying abilities progress.. eventually, you might get a full blown case of Dyscirclia, this is where most of your horizontal circles become vertical circles (Loops) and it progresses from there, so be prepared..

    Anyway, welcome to the hobby and RCU..  sounds like you are doing everything correctly in your training, so keep it up, and keep us up to date on your progress..  Don't be afraid to ask us questions...  like previously stated, most of us like helping new flyers, as most of us remember how difficult it was when we were learning..

    Craig.
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #10
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  6. #31

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    yes i know i am addicted now. it is like a drug. you see if rc airplanes were more publicly known and accepted i think harmful drugs like cocaine and heroin would not be problem as rc airplane building and flying is obviously more addictive than any other substance lol i had not heard of the hobby until i found the deal and decided it was something i might enjoy. now i have the itch to fly again. i am just thinking about what i need to do to improve and try to solo safely. computer simulator really helps i think. hopefully tomorrow. i figure maybe after i get really good with training airplane i could get something electric power to mess with and learn to fly something a bit more wild with more skill then possibly build my own airplane as project. that will be down the road. i rarely have time for anything with work and my studies. possibly build someday. it seems very time consuming but being able to craft a piece of art that flys well and be able to say you built it with your bare hands is nice i bet. but before any commitments that large i need to get down the landings and all around flying first
    ORIGINAL: SeaJay

    Alena23,

    Welcome to the Addiction.. Most of us started out like you, one trainer.. Now after about 30 years or so, I have about 30 planes in different states of completion.. so just be ready to feed your addition.. also, the tricks and stunts will come to you as your flying abilities progress.. eventually, you might get a full blown case of Dyscirclia, this is where most of your horizontal circles become vertical circles (Loops) and it progresses from there, so be prepared..

    Anyway, welcome to the hobby and RCU.. sounds like you are doing everything correctly in your training, so keep it up, and keep us up to date on your progress.. Don't be afraid to ask us questions... like previously stated, most of us like helping new flyers, as most of us remember how difficult it was when we were learning..

    Craig.

  7. #32

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Welcome to RCU and the hobby!
    You sound excited and smart, you're going to have a great time flying and learning. The only additional piece of advice I have is....look for some storage space now! You're going to need it sooner than you think!

    BTW, I'm VERY proud of my fellow fliers for being so welcome, positive and considerate to our new flying friend. Thank you!

    Clear skies to all.

    -PD


  8. #33
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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Alena23, You fall into the 10% club.

    You came here with absolutely no R/C back ground, asked the usual questions, but unlike 90%, you took that advice and are having a successfull experience. Many come here ask the same questions then try to go and fly the plane by themselves anyway. For some reason we rairly hear from those guys again. Congratulations and welcome. Craigs List is a good source for used planes as well as the market place here on RCU. I have about 12 planes and 8 or so unbuilt kits and ARFs.

    This thread needs to be stickied and renamed "How get started right!"
    He who dies with the most toys wins!

  9. #34

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    My advice is contradictory:

    1 Avoid clubs, go straight to a flight school. They will trim your plane and in a few concentrated sessions will train you solidly. That's their job. Don't trust the club amateur arrangements.

    2 Buy insurance from a specialist broker. Get more than the basic. Club insurance doesn't cover injury to yourself or to your family. It also doesn't cover loss from your van, shed or garage. You need all these.

    3 Don't fly scale models, they tend to be less stable and more brittle. Get a model made of Elapor, it will absorb a huge amount of damage. The EasyStar model is perfect for building hours of air time. Buy the original not one of the inferior clones.

    4 If you have a slope soaring site locally, get soaring. It will allow you fuss free 30 minute flights all afternoon. With typical powered models you'll take twice as long to build up hours of fight experience.

    5 Avoid IC engines, they are all noise and no power. Youll spend hours fiddling instead of flying. Electric motors are more powerful, and don't restrict your choice of flying sites.

    6 Flight simulators are good for helicopter training, but I have never found them of much use for fixed wing, perhaps because of the narrow field of view. But do try one. Get a good controller that looks like your transmitter, but don't spend a lot on the software, the free and low cost systems work fine.

    7 Bear in mind that clubs and forums tend to have people with opinions,  but no experience. It stands to reason that the guys loafing around giving advice or posting hundreds or thousands of times a year are not the ones off competing in expert events, or busily practicing. They are sometimes frustrated army types who enjoy a good shout, but really aren't much use to you.

    8 For the camaraderie, join several clubs, and see where you fit in best. A few clubs have officious types, and if you like that, it's there for you. Others may be more welcoming. 

    After fifty years of flying, I still enjoy the new. I fly power (electric only since 1977), high performance gliders up to 3m span, delta EDF jets, helicopters (since 1972), and FPV. I buy only German radio control systems now after bad experiences with Japanese sets, and buy motors, speed controllers, and batteries from Hong Kong. I buy a sample to test out, then a whole batch with spares. I rarely buy what my local flying chums advise, although I carefully study what they are doing. Instead, I read technical specifications and independent reviews from several sources to try to eliminate bias, and narrow minds.

    One last thing. Have several flying sites. If you spot any obstruction like a building, tree, power line or fence, cross the site off your list. You always want a big sky, and plenty of ground, especially at the beginning when you cant be sure when your motor will quit. If you see a person, animal, car or full sized plane, hang glider or anything else you might collide with, stop flying immediately, and go elsewhere, or wait until they do. 






  10. #35
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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?


    ORIGINAL: bikerbc

    Alena 23 welcome to the wonderfull world of RC...Any full size flying experience you have will not help you in fact it will probably make it harder for you...I am a full size pilot and I can tell you from experience that it is far harder to fly rc than to fly full size...That said you got a fantastic deal and you are going about this rite with the rite attitude....I used the Nexstar for about a year when I came back into the hobby...They are a great flying trainer....If you get an instructor and join a club , you will do fine...You can set it up on skis or floats for flying from the snow if winter flying is going to slow you down...I did see that you are in Alaska didn't I ? You must be running out of good fall weather soon I would think...


    Not disagreeing with you for the sake of argument, because i agree that there are many differences between full size and RC flying, mainly perspective and lack of any physical feedback to your body except the stick tension in the RC transmitter..

    Having said that.. I have been an RC pilot for 34 Years and a real pilot for 31 years (now flying a Global Express), I understand what you are all saying about being a full size pilot does not help.. but in many ways it will help..

    They can be mutually beneficial as long as you respect the differences...

    IE, Stalling theory, washout, aileron differential, thrust and drag line, CG, all that knowledge from full size helps with the models.

    I learned RC planes before real planes but i learned Real Helicopters before RC helicopters and I can say, in all cases the knowledge gained from RC and Full size crosses over well..

    I would have never attempted an RC Helicopter without understanding basic rotor theory from the fullsize..

    Having said my 2 cents worth, I do agree with those who say the physical skill of flying a real plane will not enable you to automatically fly an RC model.. very different muscle memory required and no Kinesthetic feedback from RC... its all eyes and ears..

    Good luck and get some training from an experienced club instructor and you should have no troubles.

    PS..I wouldn't say the RC models are harder.. try spending a month at Bombardier in Montreal on initial, exams every day, stressful simulator sessions... and an 8 hour flight check ride at the end...

    I fly the models to relax and uwind... I took my MCPX and a DX6i to Montreal and it kept me sane, having a few flights each night after class...
    My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my planes for what I told her they cost.

  11. #36

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Welcome to the wonderful world of R/C. I am glad to see you followed the advice of the members here before you went out on your own.
    Don't get in a hurry to solo. Take your time. You will find that taking off by yourself is quite easy but landing takes a lot of practice. Don't rush it and stick with your instructor until you are completely ready to solo.
    All of us here were beginners at one time and we understand very well where you are coming from.
    Welcome to RCU and the great hobby of model aviation.
    The Pamster
    AMA 202345
    Balsa USA Brotherhood Member #55

  12. #37

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    omg guys good news. I flew most of yesterday. I probably put four or five full tanks of fuel through.(half of which just ended up on the wing and side of body waiting to be cleaned off lol) so this time I was allowed to take off Everytime and I did figure 8's almost nonstop. I also learned some throttle management and how to make turns(it feels like the airplane is going to slip out of the air and crash on turns without using left stick to balance it out. I also practiced "touch and go" but that was mainly instructor giving demos. I did have one here I came in alone a touch down but I was to fast and hard and bounced like a ball and tried one last time and bounced again so I just throttle it and go back up. the wind was blowing from the side so that was not easy but I am learning. Now 80-95% of my flying int the air is just me with no help but landing and take off I need a few corrections. the engine died once but instructor just flip his switch and bring it in with no power some how. I didn't think that was possible lol. I know full size airplanes can but I thought an rc would just lose all control and crash. so another succesfull day in the air and itching for more maybe a solo in a few more flight if all is well. I attempted picture but it was to high. They tell me to practice very high in the air so crashing is less likely. Thanks for the help everyone, I think I will be joining this club

  13. #38

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Excellent again!

    Learning to fly using both sticks I think is very good practice.

    Doing lots of figure 8's at various speeds and sizes I think also helped me a lot.

    If the instructor is ok with it, you might do some stalls up high. IE cut power to idle, and add up elevator to keep the same altitude. Eventually the plane will loose enough speed that airflow over the wing stalls, and the plane will nose down. Then you (or he) will get off of the elevator and add some power to get airspeed, and pull out of the dive.

    It gives you an idea of the plane's stall speed, and how it acts when it is about to stall. This might help with your landings.

  14. #39

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Great news! Figure eights will give you some good practice. I know they helped me a lot. I did them over and over and I bet bugged folks watching, but it sure helped me get the "hang" of it. I also was relentless practicing circuits left to right and right to left. I struggled the most right to left and now I can glass the landings both ways.

    One thing I noticed watching other guys is that some guys even after flying for 20+ years still struggle right to left landings and even making the right bank turns to approach to land. I felt like I should be able to fly comfortably in both directions and in most any circumstances so I practiced, practiced and more practiced. I got to where I could make right to left better than left to right and almost messed up when I went back to normal landing approach

    For me it is important to continue to work both directions and always keep your skills honed. I was flying the other weekend and it was somewhat windy. All of a sudden I saw leaves and the wind picked up and it was boisterous. I thought to myself, yikes this was not good. I tried to keep flying through it hoping it would die down, which it did slightly but was not going to be the best situation.

    The point is all the practice paid off. I just kept a level head and flew right through the wind gust with some throttle management and watched carefully for a slight break then brought my plane down. It was sketchy and I had to bring the plane in extremely fast to keep control, but I made it. Without the practice I don't think I would have saved my plane.

    I read somewhere that you should go to the field with goals and accomplish them and I will state that goals help me to not become a stale RC pilot. When I start getting complacent I plan a new strategy and decide to practice a new routine. Right now I am working on smooth rolls maintaining constant altitude and better knife edges. I had been recently practicing knife edges in complete circuits left to right and right to left and I can do a complete circle of the field doing knife edge - totally cool for someone only flying a few years now.

    If you have a plan, RC flying will never get boring [8D]

  15. #40

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    well I have decided that pretty soon I will be able to land.  I have figured it out mostly.  You have to slow down before you make the last turn and basically idle or glide I and just slowly let it drop down onto the runway.  they have had me doing touch and goes and practicing getting out of stalls and certain spins.  but I only do that really high up.  the engine died once while I was flying but I did did not land it. Why do they do that? Is it my motor? I have never seen other planes randomly die.  they said it was my fuel because I have to run it at a high idle and if I give it throttle to quick it will bog and be very unresponsive or it will just die all together.  not a massive problem but annoying.  Other than that all is fine so far

  16. #41
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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    edited

    I thought I had read the whole thread....

    You've already done everything I thought of.
    - Carrell

  17. #42

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Glow engines can kind of load up when idling, and suddenly opening the throttle can cause it to die.

    Well tuned a good engine is generally reliable. Sometimes a different glow plug can help. Fox makes one called the miricle plug.

  18. #43

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    ok everyone sorry for no updates lately. I have been flying about daily and getting the hang. now I can fly without he input of and instructor and I have landed a few times. today I am going to solo. I had a few flight where the instructor never touched the controls so I think I am ready. I did come into land way to fast and high but I cut the engine so I was not able to go around. I hit the ground and bounced like twice before going of into the field and eventually slowing down and crashing but I only bent the nose wheel back. nothing serious at all thank god. I think the trick to landing is comin in at a near stall and starting early and just putting it down. thanks for all the help guys, wish me luck

  19. #44

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?


    ORIGINAL: Alena23

    *ok everyone sorry for no updates lately. I have been flying about daily and getting the hang. now I can fly without he input of and instructor and I have landed a few times. *today I am going to solo. *I had a few flight where the instructor never touched the controls so I think I am ready. I did come into land way to fast and high but I cut the engine so I was not able to go around. *I hit the ground and bounced like twice before going of into the field and eventually slowing down and crashing but I only bent the nose wheel back. nothing serious at all thank god. *I think the trick to landing is comin in at a near stall and starting early and just putting it down. thanks for all the help guys, wish me luck
    One of the best pieces of advice I have received about landing was to simply FLY the plane in and not so much stalling it to the ground. It all starts with a good downward leg and approach. I learned once I bought a fast sport plane just how important it is to fly the plane to a successful landing with the correct speed. I had tried to slow down real slow and flare my sport plane out only to find out what a stall on a sport plane is like! Let me just state it was not pretty and required some repair work.

    As I bought larger gas planes that advice has paid great dividends and my landings have improved so much that I am more comfortable now. I fly with different groups of folks that fly different styles and some just have not gotten a handle on the art of landing. I fly with some older guys that fly larger gassers and have been flying for probably 30+ years. I am so amazed at how these guys land and it is like art. The takeoffs are equally impressing - smooth, consistant and precise. It becomes a joy to watch.

    I am anticipating your next report. Let us know how it goes. [8D]

  20. #45
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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?


    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    My advice is contradictory:
    Maybe you do things a bit differently than we do here.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    1 Avoid clubs, go straight to a flight school. They will trim your plane and in a few concentrated sessions will train you solidly. That's their job. Don't trust the club amateur arrangements.
    Many clubs have instructors, club planes, and formal training sessions.

    Instead of spending undue amounts of time trimming out and tuning planes, these club trainer planes permit the pilots to maximize their time in the air.

    The people providing the training are normally certified as instructors and many registered that way with the AMA for this purpose. Often the instructers must first certify as instructors.

    The instructors will also provide on-going help with trimming, etc. long after training is over.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    2 Buy insurance from a specialist broker. Get more than the basic. Club insurance doesn't cover injury to yourself or to your family. It also doesn't cover loss from your van, shed or garage. You need all these.
    For most of us, our Homeowners or Apartment insurance covers most of what the AMA insurance doesn't cover in terms of liabilty. Damage to the planes themselves... good luck with that...

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    3 Don't fly scale models, they tend to be less stable and more brittle. Get a model made of Elapor, it will absorb a huge amount of damage. The EasyStar model is perfect for building hours of air time. Buy the original not one of the inferior clones.
    Trainer planes get a LOT of abuse. Unfortunately foam of all types does not hold up very well, breaks easily and gets dinged up quite quickly. Foamies are "one season" planes IMHO.

    The sales hype would have you believe that you can easily glue damage back together.

    The reality is that you CAN glue damaged parts back together if the damage done is fortuitous. 40% of the time it is not... so by your second impact, you'll need a new airframe.

    Larger Ply/Balsa planes are much easier to repair and teach the necessary repair skills needed to go forward. With a little experience even a severely damaged Ply/Balsa plane can be restored to better than new condition. Parts are easy to fabricate. Foam not so...

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    4 If you have a slope soaring site locally, get soaring. It will allow you fuss free 30 minute flights all afternoon. With typical powered models you'll take twice as long to build up hours of fight experience.
    That's assuming you have a slope nearby. Most of us don't, but there ARE AMA sanctioned fields almost everywhere in the U.S. where the poster is based.

    With powered models I typically fly "fuss free 30 minute flights all afternoon" thanks. Larger receiver packs are much lighter than the packs powering an electric plane's motor.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    5 Avoid IC engines, they are all noise and no power. Youll spend hours fiddling instead of flying. Electric motors are more powerful, and don't restrict your choice of flying sites.
    Most novices purchase pre-built RTF electrics which are typically small inexpensive planes.

    These do not fare well in winds and are not exactly "powerful".

    As with all things R/C it is up to the pilot to properly size components.

    Some electric plane afficionados tout a "more power" advantage, but what they are really doing is sacrificing flight time to get more wattage out of the motor.

    IC planes can be refueled and flying again quickly in comparison.

    The choice of glow/gas/electric can be left up to personal preferance, without the dubious color of people saying that one is better than another.


    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    6 Flight simulators are good for helicopter training, but I have never found them of much use for fixed wing, perhaps because of the narrow field of view.
    Nonsense. They are great, particularly for orientation training for fixed wings.

    Thanks to simulators I soloed on my first day out and I've instructed many others who have learned very quickly thanks to a good simulator.

    The better simulators are great for learning manouvers and things a novice would barely attempt at the field.

    We put novices on simulators while they await their turns at the real sticks...

    They do not teach you EVERYTHING, but even the more expensive simulators end up saving you more than they cost.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    but really aren't much use to you....
    ... pot calling the kettle....

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    8 For the camaraderie, join several clubs, and see where you fit in best. A few clubs have officious types, and if you like that, it's there for you. Others may be more welcoming.
    Good advice in number eight...

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    You always want a big sky, and plenty of ground, especially at the beginning when you cant be sure when your motor will quit. If you see a person, animal, car or full sized plane, hang glider or anything else you might collide with, stop flying immediately, and go elsewhere, or wait until they do.
    Or just fly at a AMA sanctioned club site and avoid all the fuss, danger and liabilities.


    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  21. #46

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    I said my advice was contradictory, that is, its a diferent approach.

    That doesn't mean that its wrong. Its an alternate opinion, and your laboured stomp through my advicewon't change that however dogmatically you express yourself. Bluster was never a good indicator of good sense, was it? But I'm sure you're a charmer in real life and love kittens.

    You may have good experience with your particular approach, I don't know how well you fly, so I can't tell.

    I certainly have had good experience with mine and the evidence is that the newer approach that I advocate has seen a vastly greater interest and take up of the hobby than the 1950s style ever did.

    Yes, times have changed, and the days of heavy, oil-soaked noisy flying bricks have gone, for most. I know fields where your attitude is still staggering on, though. But its amonsgt a dying breed, most of whom, as far as I can see, are still barely able to fly the very same 40 powered high wing trainers they failed to fly decades back.

    I've been flying for fifty years, so have gone through the widest possible variety of aircraft types, locations and approaches. Helicopters since 1971, electrics since 1977, jets since 1999, FPV since 2009. Single channel, reeds, Galloping Ghost, digital proportional. 27MHz, 35MHz, 2.4Ghz.

    Your club may be forward thinking and advancing the hobby, but there are some that are anti-foam, anti-glider, anti-electric, anti-FPV, anti-helicopter, anti-everything that isn't something that they grew up with, makes a lot of noise and stinks.

    Sadly that is why the great US and UKmanufacturers of the past have disappeared.

    No more Bonner, Kraft, Min-X, Fleet, Skyleader, Controlaire, Orbit and the others. No supplier was prepared to move forwards, and compete by using new techniques. Where are the entrepreneurs to come from to set up to compete with the likes of Multiplex or Futaba, for examples of high-wage manufacturers, let alone the low-wage economies of China, India, Malaysia and Brazil?

    Is your club able to produce such people, or are your people skilled only in balsa, dope and tissue, glow-plugs and chicken sticks.

    I hope that your comments are not an indication that your attitudes are locked in the past. Closed minds are not what this world needs right now, or ever.

  22. #47

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    Mchael, you seen to be forgetting something:
    You're talking from a British Isles point of view while Opjose is talkng from an American point of view. What works on this side of the pond is much different than what works on your side. That would include insurance, teaching methods so enough on that.

    As far as aircraft, materials, engines and such, we tend to leave those choises to the person building or buying the plane. I personally don't care for an electric airplane and have found nitro and petrol engines have plenty of power if properly sized to the aircraft. Also, if broken in properly, they don't require much "fiddling with" and don't restrict your flying sites unless you are flying in a public park where, unless it's very early or late in the day and deserted, you shouldn't be flying anyway. Rules on where, when and how you fly were established by the FAA, AMA and FCC and, if followed, will keep the person flying out of trouble.

    One more thought for you to think about before I head off to other projects. I take offence to you comment
    "Is your club able to produce such people, or are your people skilled only in balsa, dope and tissue, glow-plugs and chicken sticks." The implication we in the "colonies" are a backwards society that can't look ahead has me wondering how much longer would England have lasted if two American companies hadn't shown that the Rolls Royce Merlin and high performance single seat fighters to install them in could be quickly mass produced instead of being built by hand one at a time as they were by RR, Hawker and Supermarine?

  23. #48

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    I didn't say that you are backward colonials who cannot look forward, but then you go on to cite an example from seventy years ago!!! How could you??

    Besides I have spent a great deal of time in lovely Yale University over the last ten years, and know Dupont Circle in Washington DC better than my home town, and like it better too. And not just for the nearby Air and Space Museum. I know flying clubs over there, and they aren't much different from those over here, except for the weather.

    No, there are people everywhere who sell decrepid antiques and others who sell beautiful modern furniture, and you won't have any problem working out my preference. 

    My interest is with the new. The New World was usually the place we turned to for inspiration in music, architecture and, certainly, RC. It's a great disappointment that this isn't true anymore. And painful to see. It must be a problem at the grass roots because without a healthy, thriving and developing client base the industries will not emerge and develop new products.

    We know the iPhone was designed by an Englishman and built by the Koreans in China. We know that all the great RC companies I mentioned earlier have gone. we know that your car giants have had to go cap in hand to the taxpayer. 

    How could this have happened?



  24. #49
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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    I said my advice was contradictory, that is, its a different approach.
    That doesn't make it good, applicable or even permissible here.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    That doesn't mean that its wrong. Its an alternate opinion
    While it may apply for you, it is not good advice for someone on this side of the pond. Quite the opposite.

    I can't speak for the rest of the U.K.


    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    and your laboured stomp through my advice won't change that however dogmatically you express yourself.
    You elected to jump in espousing things that in some cases are not allowed, nor good practice. Easy target...

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    Bluster was never a good indicator of good sense, was it? But I'm sure you're a charmer in real life and love kittens.
    Not too fond of cats.

    Do agree with your bluster though.... there's that "pot calling the kettle" again.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    You may have good experience with your particular approach, I don't know how well you fly, so I can't tell.
    Very well thank you... I'm also a certified instructor...

    Throwing out credentials is normally indicative of a lack of self confidence. Better to let knowledge and experience speak for itself.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    Yes, times have changed, and the days of heavy, oil-soaked noisy flying bricks have gone, for most. I know fields where your attitude is still staggering on, though. But its amonsgt a dying breed, most of whom, as far as I can see, are still barely able to fly the very same 40 powered high wing trainers they failed to fly decades back.
    Come over to our side of the world.

    The smaller planes are the electric ones, while gassers are used for larger planes, that most experienced RC'ers quickly move to.

    A lot of clubs are also employing club trainers that harken back to those original trainers people have successfully learned with for all of intervening decades.

    They work because they are the best planes for this task, in spite of what you personally believe.


    The increased cost of glow fuel is driving some people out of glow engines. Not attitude, etc.

    So in the smaller end of the scale electric TRAINER planes predominate.

    Given that larger planes are easier for a novice to see and fly, we utilize large gas trainers or Stiks for that purpose.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    I've been flying for fifty years, so have gone through the widest possible variety of aircraft types, locations and approaches. Helicopters since 1971, electrics since 1977, jets since 1999, FPV since 2009. Single channel, reeds, Galloping Ghost, digital proportional. 27MHz, 35MHz, 2.4Ghz.
    Goes to show that even experienced flyers can sometimes still give poor advice.

    Check out the "fuel stays in the back of the tank" arguments around here.

    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    Your club may be forward thinking and advancing the hobby, but there are some that are anti-foam, anti-glider, anti-electric, anti-FPV, anti-helicopter, anti-everything that isn't something that they grew up with, makes a lot of noise and stinks.
    An "anti-everything" club would by definition exclude RC'ers right?

    And yes we put a lot of effort into "advancing the hobby" but how does this go against anything?

    "Noise and stinks"... I don't know what you are talking about. In the larger sizes electrics can be every bit as noisy as gassers, given that the largest component of the noise is prop noise.

    EDF's are anything BUT quiet... and of course there are the Turbines we love...


    It may be that you are used to flying smaller planes.

    Gassers don't "stink".

    Many LIKE the "smell of glow fuel in the morning". I haven't met anyone that finds it offensive.


    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    Sadly that is why the great US and UK manufacturers of the past have disappeared.
    Eh, no. They've disappeared because of

    A) lower margins due to Asian competition.
    B) lower manufacturing costs in third world countries
    C) direct marketing via the internet.
    D) global economy
    etc., etc.

    You are equating local production and sales with interest in RC. These are not the same thing.

    If anything we've seen and tallied INCREASED interest in RC and RC products in the last two years, commensurate with the economy bouncing back to life.


    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell
    No more Bonner, Kraft, Min-X, Fleet, Skyleader, Controlaire, Orbit and the others. No supplier was prepared to move forwards, and compete by using new techniques. Where are the entrepreneurs to come from to set up to compete with the likes of Multiplex or Futaba, for examples of high-wage manufacturers, let alone the low-wage economies of China, India, Malaysia and Brazil?

    Is your club able to produce such people, or are your people skilled only in balsa, dope and tissue, glow-plugs and chicken sticks.
    Wow, talk about throwing in the kitchen sink as a means to argue a point!

    NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with providing any type of justification for the advice you gave.

    And btw: you may be somewhat familiar with one of our club members. Maynard Hill. ( Google if you do not know ). So YES our club is able to produce such people not that this has ANYTHING to do with your argument..


    ORIGINAL: Michael Powell

    I hope that your comments are not an indication that your attitudes are locked in the past. Closed minds are not what this world needs right now, or ever.
    Exactly! Someone who believes the hobby is limited to electric slope soaring, especially as a training mechanism, needs to broaden their views.





    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  25. #50

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    RE: very first airplane-where do i start?

    QUOTE:  Eh, no. They've disappeared because of 

    A) lower margins due to Asian competition.
    B) lower manufacturing costs in third world countries
    C) direct marketing via the internet.




    Lazy thinking. You can directly market from Poolsville. Taxes are very low in Poolesville. And they use robots in manufacture these days, so wage costs are not a significant issue anymore. Germany and Japan both manage, and their wages rates are higher than your own.

    That applies to this country, we innovate but can't manufacture well, but it's got fek all to do with production costs or the Internet.


    The way you are determined to crush all my points suggests that you aren't familiar with having dissent in the ranks. Ha, tough, that's life in the real world, so get used to it.




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