How to handle the guys with flawed plans?
I know it's a long post but I'm writing out some frustration here. I want to promote the hobby and represent aeromodelers well, but guys like this aren't viable to become successful RC pilots IMO. So what do you do with them? Smile and help them however they'll let you and be sympathetic when they fail or do you go ahead and tell them the truth and turn them off of getting help from anyone?
Don.
I am self taught as well. I did however go to the local field once and was invited to take one of the instructors panes up on the buddy box. It was great. Everyone there was very nice and I've nothing bad to say about the experience. However, not having a great deal of money to spend on AMA and club dues, I decided to fly on my own property. I will say that if you go to your local field and ask for someone's help, like it sounds like these guys did, then it just seems like a mater of respect to listen to what they have to say. If you don't like what they have to say and want to strike out on your own then that's fine, but at least listen to what they have to say and don't waste their time. Just my thoughts.
James
Point being... Be yourself and those that you "turn off" will be forgotten moment of your past. Those that stick it out and accept your style will become integral parts of your life and/or memories.
For myself, if a prospective student doesn't want to play "on my terms", then we don't play at all. I don't have any problem with telling someone that I don't want to fly their plane for them; or teach them how to fly. Gotta learn how to say, "No" and walk away.
I must add that it is rare that I bother with instructing, nowadays ... 'cos I'm just not prepared to fly some bit of junk; since I'm responsible for the safe conduct of the flight.
Is that harsh of me?
Some show up with a toy motor glider and want to be taught. I will give my honest assessment of his chances based on my years of observation and experience. I'll at least maiden it and trim it for him but most of the time all I can do is stand next to him for moral support. Passing the transmitter back and forth usually doesnt work that well. When those guys see how smooth things go on a buddy box, attitudes usually change. But you always have someone that wants to go it alone and teach themselves. Thats fine, but you cant do it at our field. Many years back a guy shows up, joins ama and the club, and says he can fly. Turns out he couldnt, lost it in the parking lot and damaged a car. Cost him a fair amount of money since he lied about being able to fly to the ama. He was actually going to teach himself.
I will teach on any trainer as long as it can buddy box to the standard radios. If someone insists on flying something I dont think is safe, I will refuse. It has to pass my pre-flight. If they refuse to listen to my instructions while they are flying, I wont teach them any more. I dont loose any sleep over it, he can go somewhere else. And not all people can be trained. I taught one guy for a year, hundreds of flights. His eye hand coordination and depth perception just wasnt there. I told him I would stay with him as long as he wanted, but he realized after a year, it just wasnt going to happen and quite. I've had a couple early retirees that happened to. Yes, it can be frustrating when half that start actually solo. Then out of that, half again actually stay with it beyond two years. Every now and then, you get someone that takes to building and learning with the passion I remember when I was younger. Warms your soul to see that.
I teach because I had to learn by myself, very long time and expensive. Nobody in the club I was in was interested in teaching. I ran into someone later I had not met before at the field and he helped. Two flights with him made all the difference to me. So I make sure when others want to learn, someone will be there to teach them.
Edwin
Edwin
JMO,
If they wont listen to your advice,then they think
they already know everything. Not much you can
do for those types. Sit back and watch. I tell newer
younger pilots "ask me how I know"
Bob
I say this because I started in this hobby (first time) about 15 years ago. Went to the hobby store and bought a high wing .40 size nitro trainer with everything needed to fly in support equipment. The guy at the store kept telling me that I shouldnt try to learn to fly by myself...even gave me a number to a local club to get help to learn to fly. I told him I would just to shut him up...the whole time thinking..."how hard can it be...its just up/down/left/right...go slower/faster. I left that store about 450-500 dollars poorer, and with confidence that this was something I could do on my own without help.
That plane lived exactly 2 flights (still not sure how I maidened it and landed...it wasnt pretty). The 2nd flight it re-kitted itself and I pretty much gave up right there, out of embarrassment alone!
Over the years I had a few RC cars/trucks but nothing really of "hobby grade" and I just get bored with land vehicles pretty quick. Or at least tired of having to repair them/tweak them all the time. So I never really took to RC, but always wished I had of listened to the guy at the hobby store on that airplane, because as far back as I can remember I had always wanted to fly RC planes and helis.
So...3 years ago I decided to try it again. This time I sought out a club and joined it. While our club doesnt really have an official "instructor" I was still able to be buddy boxed 2 or 3 times before I solo'd. Really, the buddy boxing didnt do a whole lot for me because I had already been playing around on a SIM for a few weeks and had also bought one of those Phoenix Firebird pusher prop v tail airplanes and learned to fly in a field by my house by myself. I wanted to at least know somewhat of what I was doing before I went to the club field.
What really helped me more than anything was just going to the club and watching all of the veteran pilots. Asking a lot of questions regarding the things that I didnt understand and just took in everything I could. I probably went to the field at least 3 or 4, maybe 5 times before I ever flew the first plane! But, I learned something every trip made...and I continued to add to my knowledge by reading forums like RCU here online. I still learn something new almost daily...I dont think the learning ever stops in this hobby.
So...while instructors and clubs arent necessary for all...it will definitely be a benefit to be part of one. That is if you feel you fit in with the others in said club. If the club I joined was full of a bunch of buttholes, then I wouldnt have stuck around to learn what I learned, and be enjoying this great hobby today...flying anything from a small micro J3 Cub to a 65cc gas Yak54, not to mention a myriad of CP helicopters. All in less than 3 years time. If only I had listened to the guy at the hobby store, I would be 15 years into the hobby and my skills would be wayyyyyyyyy more advanced than they are now. But, cant turn back time...just enjoy the present and look forward to the future.
At the end of the day, if you are flying safely and having fun during the process...AND not crashing every model you buy, you are doing something right.
Our club has dues as well as AMA and IMAA membership requirements - AMA even for guests - which serve to bring only the more committed to our field. We do get visitors who see us flying and stop by - sometimes intending to fly because the local hobby shop had been in the practice of mentioning models could be flown at our field (leaving out such details as "private property" and membership requirements, dues, etc.) We partially solved that by arranging to put up a bulletin board in the LHS with club info.
It's not a new problem. Even before ARFs and fomies the occasional garage sale P-51 would show up. Worse are the kit built. I know what it's like to build a model and take home a bag of balsa shards. Both control line and R/C.
I find a demeaning chuckle works wonders!
I get this type of individual a lot in my business, and one learns to spot them early. A firm hand is needed, and explain in sequence the path they are on. Unfortunately, most of them don't listen, will argue, etc. The few that have an open mind and are respectful will do well.
Fair enough, but I still say flying is flying. Those of us with some education, I have a BS in Information Systems, do understand aerodynamics. But I do take exception to the "flying outlaw" comment. Why is it "outlaw" to fly outside a club? I guess things are different here in SoCal. We don't need "permits" to fly like in New York. Oh well, I am not trying to de-legitimize clubs or instruction, I am just trying to point out that those of us who fly "outlaw" don't enjoy our exerience any less than you guys do.
A couple of observations (not mine - just sharing):
On RC flying - in your 2nd year you are likely to crash everything you bring to the field.
On driving a class A vehicle - the most dangerous drivers are those in their 2nd year 'cause they think they have learned everything there is to know about driving.
On driving a race car - you exceed your limitations and it's gonna leave a mark - maybe just $$ but could be a lot more personal.
Good flying ...
BTWchuck - I used to teach the DBA, admin, technical classes that you figured that you didn't need. My customers wanted to insure success and avoid failure because the success of their companies depended on it. Risk, reward.
Our field is on City of Austin park land and has to meet insurance requirements which the AMA provides. No choice in that. If safety becomes an issue, it could easily shut us down.
As for outlaw pilot, that phrase has been around since the early 90's, maybe longer. Not ment as a derogatory remark. Lots of us flew outlaw when there were no fields for us to fly at. We were kicked out of more than a few parks. Later became a term of endearment for those of us younger guys that did what we wanted where we wanted.
Please dont think this is an us versus you thing. Just different ways of learning to fly. It was very expensive for me to learn on my own, and I was by no means gifted. [&o]
Edwin
Irrelevent, besides, by the time I got my BS, I had already been a self taught network admin, DBA and business manager for 10 years starting back in 1984! Idon't understand why so many of you guys think it is impossible to teach yourself to fly?Getting a BS degree is infinately harder to do than flyRC aircraft. It's time people realized that for some people, it may be rocket science, for others..............like me................not so much. To me it's all about having fun flying...that's it.
Did you learn to drive by yourself? Would you get in an commercial jet liner with a self taught pilot?
Im not saying it can't be done, I'm saying is easier, cheaper and faster to get club instruction.
I don't understand why so many of you guys think it is impossible to teach yourself to fly?
In order to teach, it is necessay that the teacher know more than the student and it's impossible when you are the student to know more than you know. The teacher is way ahead of you and already knows what you are trying to learn.
As for me, being the ignoramous that I was,I actually attended school and even paid tuition. Never did know everything on my own and realized that there were a lot of much smarter people than me who had valuable info to pass on and brind to my atttention, as well as the ability to explain and present things in different ways to help my learning.
You can't do any of that for yourself. You are simply a learner, not a teacher. Self-taught does not exist.
I share this with the utmost respect for our academics ...
do335a - nicely stated.