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flying With the wind..

Old 11-18-2012, 03:25 PM
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Popriv
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Default flying With the wind..

Had a ball today, maidened my 40" 2lb electric Yak..
Its underpowered with a brushless 400 I took out of my seawind.
With a 10x3.8 prop it was pulling 170 watts on the ground
I plan on putting a .10 supertiger on it.

Winds really picked up but this plane handled it fine.

I did notice the plane would get real mushy when flying With the wind. seemed to lose aileron control abit. I assume this was because while my ground speed looked high, my airspeed going with the wind was very low and I had no air flowing over the wings... is this Yak design more suseptable to this? I havent noticed this mushyness before on my other planes.
I think I like the yak type plane.. maybe get one for my .60 glow engine?

steve
Old 11-18-2012, 03:53 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

Congrats on your maiden and it is great that you are not afraid of flying in the wind. You are probably right that you are not judging the planes airspeed well and are getting a bit slow going downwind. Try flying with more throttle on windy days.

I fly at a runway where the wind is in my face often so that base legs can be a problem. Visually, I think I have plenty of airspeed but I have noticed there is no energy left as I turn final and land. It is tough to judge the airspeed visually as the wind can be such a large percentage of it.

Just keep flying! Good to see your are thinking of the actual airspeed of the plane.
Old 11-18-2012, 04:21 PM
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Gray Beard
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

Funny this came up today. Yesterday I was flying my Aeroworks electric Extra and as soon as I took off I knew the wind was going to come up any second. At about 50 feet the plane was getting kicked around. You are correct, on the down wind leg you have to at least be flying faster then the wind speed or your controls get mushy. The only way I was able to land was to get over the runway and kill power and hold the plane into the wind. Every flight I had to do a Hairier landing, just float down. I knew someone was going to say they were flying in a 20 MPH wind so we pulled out the wind Gage just to prove them wrong, my 17 ounce plane just doesn't fly very well at all in real high wind. The Gage was only showing a 13 MPH wind and it would drop down to about 8 MPH then jump back to 13 MPH. I don't think I could ever get it to land in a 20 MPH wind, 13 was a lot of fun though and mine isn't under powered.
I'm surprised you maidened your new plane in a strong wind! The YAKs and Extras can handle it, landing is always the big thrill though. Glad it went well for you. I don't know if my wing will take much more then 15 MPH or not but stunting with the motor off was a lot of fun!
Old 11-18-2012, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..


ORIGINAL: Popriv


I think I like the yak type plane.. maybe get one for my .60 glow engine?

steve
Yes, good plane...which manufacturer?
Old 11-18-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

So many factors with windy day flying. Erratic gust are the worst, especially accross the runway. I have had more problems with that than any. Once I was flying in fairly high gusty winds and was coming in for a landing. I had decent speed and all of a sudden a gust come from broad side and turned my plane right at 90 degrees! I did my best to stabilize but the wingtip caught and cartwheeled the plane. I had considerable damage.

Steady wind is not bad and can really help strengthen flying skills. I have some planes that just don't mind much at all. I have a blast flying the Twist in windy conditions. As far as most of my flying, I go out most any time it is steady winds here as long as they are not too high. Gusty high winds seem to take a lot of joy out of flying to me. Not sure I would maiden a plan on a windy day unless it was somewhat light/moderate winds and nothing serious.
Old 11-18-2012, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Funny this came up today. Yesterday I was flying my Aeroworks electric Extra and as soon as I took off I knew the wind was going to come up any second. At about 50 feet the plane was getting kicked around. You are correct, on the down wind leg you have to at least be flying faster then the wind speed or your controls get mushy. The only way I was able to land was to get over the runway and kill power and hold the plane into the wind. Every flight I had to do a Hairier landing, just float down. I knew someone was going to say they were flying in a 20 MPH wind so we pulled out the wind Gage just to prove them wrong, my 17 ounce plane just doesn't fly very well at all in real high wind. The Gage was only showing a 13 MPH wind and it would drop down to about 8 MPH then jump back to 13 MPH. I don't think I could ever get it to land in a 20 MPH wind, 13 was a lot of fun though and mine isn't under powered.
I'm surprised you maidened your new plane in a strong wind! The YAKs and Extras can handle it, landing is always the big thrill though. Glad it went well for you. I don't know if my wing will take much more then 15 MPH or not but stunting with the motor off was a lot of fun!

well, Actually I had two flights yesterday,in no wind. Flew,great with a couple down elevator clicks.
Today I got out of the car and watched for awhile as the flag was standing pretty much straight out. I should get a meter to check the wind. I'm sure it's usually over estimated. The wind was great. Slight forward progress into the wind, then roll inverted and swoop,dowN with the wind... Then curl around into the wind and hang there... Pretty cool.. Steady wiNd so I wasn't getting buffeted around much. I have to switch the rimfire 400 for a .10 thunder tiger. Gonna need the power... Good time.. I did have a problem with the yak elevator tips catching on the ground when landing. I have to be careful not to flair at the end. So they don't catch..

Steve
Old 11-18-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

It will help with windy landings to learn how to do higher speed touch and go's. Sometimes when you get caught out in some bad wind you may need 1/2 throttle to keep the plane moving forward. In that scenario, you can never do a traditional stalling landing unless you want to have the plane moving backwards when it touches down. Having the skills to touch the wheels to the ground when you are well above flying speed will save your plane on those days when hard winds just show up out of nowhere.

My worst wind story was a takeoff in maybe 3 mph wind out of the north, then about 4 minutes later I had very gusty 15 mph wind out of the south. I had noticed the dark clouds in the distance and misjudge how fast the storm was coming in. It was the first time I had landed when standing at the wrong end of the runway, but luckily I was flying my Kaos which just does what you tell it to no matter what.
Old 11-18-2012, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..


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ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Funny this came up today. Yesterday I was flying my Aeroworks electric Extra and as soon as I took off I knew the wind was going to come up any second. At about 50 feet the plane was getting kicked around. You are correct, on the down wind leg you have to at least be flying faster then the wind speed or your controls get mushy. The only way I was able to land was to get over the runway and kill power and hold the plane into the wind. Every flight I had to do a Hairier landing, just float down. I knew someone was going to say they were flying in a 20 MPH wind so we pulled out the wind Gage just to prove them wrong, my 17 ounce plane just doesn't fly very well at all in real high wind. The Gage was only showing a 13 MPH wind and it would drop down to about 8 MPH then jump back to 13 MPH. I don't think I could ever get it to land in a 20 MPH wind, 13 was a lot of fun though and mine isn't under powered.
I'm surprised you maidened your new plane in a strong wind! The YAKs and Extras can handle it, landing is always the big thrill though. Glad it went well for you. I don't know if my wing will take much more then 15 MPH or not but stunting with the motor off was a lot of fun!

well, Actually I had two flights yesterday,in no wind. Flew,great with a couple down elevator clicks.
Today I got out of the car and watched for awhile as the flag was standing pretty much straight out. I should get a meter to check the wind. I'm sure it's usually over estimated. The wind was great. Slight forward progress into the wind, then roll inverted and swoop,down with the wind... Then curl around into the wind and hang there... Pretty cool.. Steady wind so I wasn't getting buffeted around much. I have to switch the rimfire 400 for a .10 thunder tiger. Gonna need the power... Good time.. I did have a problem with the yak elevator tips catching on the ground when landing. I have to be careful not to flair at the end. So they don't catch..

Steve
Lot oflittle tricks with these little light weights in the wind. I didn't see you mention if you had the side force generators on your YAK or not. I removed the ones I had on my Extra. Reaqlly didn't need them for knife edge, the Extra will do a knife edge loop without them. First time I did a cross wind landing they were more trouble then they are worth. Floating in doing a hairier was my best way of landing. Once I touched down and tried to get the plane back to the pits, I had full up elevator and as soon as I got any forward movement the plane lifted off again and I wasn't expecting it. Looked cool but could have gotten real ugly. I haven't ever flown the small electric YAK but I would think it is about the same as my Extra and just too much fun rolled up in a small plane.
I do have a wind plane I built a few years ago just for those days when the wind comes up without warning but yesterday was just an all electric day. I didn't even have an extra prop with me. Just change the battery and fly!!
Old 11-19-2012, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

I'd like to buy an accurate wind meter someday. Like GB implies, most guys overestimate the wind speed. I like to cut their estimate in half and then I think we're close to the actual wind speed. Nevertheless, it is a lot of fun and you learn a lot by flying in the wind. And while many of the guys say this or that heavy plane would do well (maybe they are right), I like to take out my Funstar 40. It's my lightest plane, powered with an OS 52 four stroke, and it is the most fun on windy days. Great fun playing with throttle and elevator to stop it or even back up when going into the wind. And landings are fun on the short runway, or on the width of the runway if the wind is crosswind, to just about hover/harrier in like GB talks about. Rollout is just a few feet or less. I agree what gets folks in trouble is flying WITH the wind, downwind. They see their plane zipping down wind but with no control because the plane is in a stall in that moving mass of wind. They need to have that throttle on enough to give them forward airspeed and effective control within the mass of air that is moving downwind fast. Come back into the wind, and play again. On days like this, there is usually just one other guy and me playing. Jon
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..


ORIGINAL: maukaonyx

I'd like to buy an accurate wind meter someday. Like GB implies, most guys overestimate the wind speed. I like to cut their estimate in half and then I think we're close to the actual wind speed. Nevertheless, it is a lot of fun and you learn a lot by flying in the wind. And while many of the guys say this or that heavy plane would do well (maybe they are right), I like to take out my Funstar 40. It's my lightest plane, powered with an OS 52 four stroke, and it is the most fun on windy days. Great fun playing with throttle and elevator to stop it or even back up when going into the wind. And landings are fun on the short runway, or on the width of the runway if the wind is crosswind, to just about hover/harrier in like GB talks about. Rollout is just a few feet or less. I agree what gets folks in trouble is flying WITH the wind, downwind. They see their plane zipping down wind but with no control because the plane is in a stall in that moving mass of wind. They need to have that throttle on enough to give them forward airspeed and effective control within the mass of air that is moving downwind fast. Come back into the wind, and play again. On days like this, there is usually just one other guy and me playing. Jon
I agree, most overestimate wind speed. I have to laugh sometimes as you hear guys say the wind was around 15 mph and it really is around 8 at most. Wind rarely causes much problem if it is not quick strong burst. My lightest plane, the Twist is a lot of fun, too. I have a 4 pitch prop on a 55AX on the Twist and that plane is a hoot!

I read that a lightweight flag will stand straight out in 8-12 mph winds. One nice thing is that you won't find many at the flyfield on those days I know one fellow that it is rare if he flies if a leaf shakes.
Old 11-19-2012, 10:29 AM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

I also agree that many people over-estimate wind speed. I use weatherundergound.com classic view to double check wind speeds on days I plan to fly, but I can usually get pretty close just by observing my plane on the ground. My 1/4 scale cub will get on one wheel and drag a wing tip if I taxi cross wind in 10mph or more. I have flown it in 20mph winds and if flies just fine, but it can not taxi at all unless facing into the wind. I have to place it facing in to the wind by hand, and it is a beast to get down unless there are absolutely no gusts. My Venus 40 will taxi cross wind with some help from the ailerons as long as wind is under 15mph, any more and it will flip all the way over. I also have a flying budy who has a GPS with an anemometer, great gadget, but I wouldn't buy a GPS just for that feature. If you really want to verify wind speeds, you can buy a digital anemometer for about $30.
Old 11-19-2012, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..


ORIGINAL: maukaonyx

I'd like to buy an accurate wind meter someday. Like GB implies, most guys overestimate the wind speed. I like to cut their estimate in half and then I think we're close to the actual wind speed. Nevertheless, it is a lot of fun and you learn a lot by flying in the wind. And while many of the guys say this or that heavy plane would do well (maybe they are right), I like to take out my Funstar 40. It's my lightest plane, powered with an OS 52 four stroke, and it is the most fun on windy days. Great fun playing with throttle and elevator to stop it or even back up when going into the wind. And landings are fun on the short runway, or on the width of the runway if the wind is crosswind, to just about hover/harrier in like GB talks about. Rollout is just a few feet or less. I agree what gets folks in trouble is flying WITH the wind, downwind. They see their plane zipping down wind but with no control because the plane is in a stall in that moving mass of wind. They need to have that throttle on enough to give them forward airspeed and effective control within the mass of air that is moving downwind fast. Come back into the wind, and play again. On days like this, there is usually just one other guy and me playing. Jon
Jon, the wind Gage we use is a small unit and sold through Amazon.com for about $30.00. We were talking about them this week and one of the ground station type is on sale at {I think Kmart} but it is the one will all the weather and needs a mast to attach the wind meter.
My old student is one of those that won't fly in the wind. When I trained him to fly I took him up in all kinds of weather and never mentioned the term too much wind to him. It was after solo and he bought his own planes he started to freak about it.
Wind estimation is one of the biggest things people over estimate. So much so it's laughable. I see guys posting here stating they were flying there XYZ plane in 28 MPH winds all the time and just shrug it off with a smile. The wind meter puts truth into the statement.
I was once at the local IMAC event and it was called off because the wind was sustained at 28 MPH. A lot of people were upset about that but the basic pilots were thrilled. One pilot took up his 40% plane and was stunting, some other pilot took up his little electric like my Extra and would copy the 40%er side by side and stunt for stunt so I know I can fly my small planes in the higher winds. My 17 ounce plane handled it just fine but much more wind and it wouldn't go down wind very well. It's just one of those pilot things though. Bev once posted some windy day flying photos and she was keeping a trainer up about two feet off the start up stand, it was floating by itself in the wind, that was a cool shot.
It can be done, I was just surprised the OP took out his light weight plane on a windy day for the maiden. Wind doesn't bother me but on a new plane I wait for a nice calm day before I maiden. Once it's in trim I'm good to go but they are often hard to trim in the wind. It impressed me a lot.
Old 11-19-2012, 03:10 PM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

A sign of an impending stall is mushy controls.....a bit of power....next time you feel mushy.
Old 11-20-2012, 02:22 AM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

Again, I misspoke that the maiden was on Sunday when it was so windy. I had a couple of quick flights on Saturday so I knew the plane was flying well.
Reguarding the maidening of me planes, I'm glad to be past the point of having someone else maiden my planes. I've found that by checking everything and setting the plane up to specs most of my maidens have been uneventfull. A couple of click one way rote other at most. Then I can experiment with the CG a bit. Learned my biggest lesson on a flat out 3d foamy that I had the elevator reversed. Flight didn't last long but It was a good plane to have it happen on as an easy repair. This was after spending quite a bit of time setting my controls and dual rates, I never noticed the reversed elevator...
The wind at our club field is erratic, probably due to the trees? The local park seems to have steadier air and is not as much of a problem.

Steve
Old 11-20-2012, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: flying With the wind..

I have set up the ailerons backwards on a students plane, lucky it was me doing the maiden. You know, when you have the ailerons backwards you have to think about what you are doing. That was the only time I have done anything like that but we all tend to have that brain fart thing happen once in a while.

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