Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I'm a big fan of the LA .46. I think it is the most user friendly of all the glow engines. Under powered when compared to the AX and old FX OS engines but way easier to operate. Way cheaper too. Engines are one of those choice things and if I was buying a new glow two stroke and thinking in the long term it would be the AX. I'm a 4 stroke guy though and for someone new to them I would go OS. very user friendly. To me a Magnum is just a parts engine. That's just my thinking, I know they have a following but I'm not one of them.

GaryHarris

When was the time you had a Magnum 4-stroke Gene? Their quality now days are pretty good but I was just checking the prices on a Saito 56 for an upcoming project and it comes down to this.

Magnum 52. $130
Saito 56. $240.
OS 56. $310.

On a budget, it's hard to beat the Magnums. The middle of the road is the Saito and far cheaper than the OS. I guess if I wanted to keep the same engine for 15 years and didn't mind the up front price, the OS might be the first choice, but not mine. I think they are way over priced. Ill be lucky to be alive in 15 years and buy toilet paper one roll at a time. [&:]

I like Saito's if I can spring the extra $110.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

If one breaks it down to user friendlyness and in a comprable displacement I beleve the AX is far better in that regard. For example what would be comprable to the La .46 is the .35AX both about the same power perhaps favoring the 35 but that little .35AX is a superb engine at idleing and throttle response. I can launch one of my old timers at full power for around ten seconds the throttle back to a full idle and that little guy will run steady for 34 minutes on three ounces of full at that idle but instantly throttle up to full power and no hesitation anytime during that long, long idle. There is no way a 46LA will do that.

Also initial setup and tunning of the AX's is proveing to be far easier for all I have recomended the various AX when compared with the LA's. The one that seems the most troublesome is the LA65. The fellows seem to have the most trouble learning to operate that one and see lots of flameouts.

I do have one LA (I think) and do fly it at times. Mounted in and old Ready Two plastic arf float trainer. Not able to get to the lake as often as in the past so I fly that brittle old ship of a launch dolly and just land it on the float bottoms with some alluminum tape along the keels. That tired old LA actually does a good job but to use in for primary students? well lets just say it cannot even approach the user friendlyness of an AX.

As far as four strokes I agree with Greay Beard for everyday flying and not warbird pylon or something like that the yes I like the current crop of OS fourstroke.

But DCE do yourself a favor at this stage stick to the two stroke you will save money and first time you have a firm arrival (happens often enough at this stage or just after solo) With that two stroke you may come out of it with a still serviceable engine at least far more likey that a four stroke.

John

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I have never bought a Magnum, I have worked on a lot of them for others. Early last year was the last one I had in my hands. I keep my engines for decades and just rebuild them when needed. When I get a Magnum in trade I give them away, I won't bother rebuilding one for myself. I have stuck with OS and YS for my own use. My first choice is always YS. I just mailed off an OS 120 pumper to a friend because I have several YS 120s on hand and will never use it again. I have kept my OS 91s though, not for sale or trade. Last OS I sold was the 70 and I have been kicking myself for doing that for years. If I could I would go 100% gas now days but you can't make any of the money back from a used glow engine, even the YS or OS.
If you want to get a good engine buy a used OS and rebuild it for your own use. I find YS cheaper to rebuild but they aren't for everyone either. Last new engine I bought myself was a 91 SK two stroke. I find them much better and more suited to my use then even the OS two strokes. For $100.00 a pop and with a muffler they are hard to beat. I have only had one bad one, the little end of the crank broke on it. Only took two weeks to get it back from service and it has run perfectly ever sense, not one dead stick but none of my engines ever dead stick on me.
Magnums were the rage in my area a few years back and I had a lot of them on my bench. The carb design is an old one and not very good. I just really think they are very poorly made.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I lit a candle in celebration of the demise of the LA 40 and I have never used the 65 but I have been given a lot of the 40s that were stuck on the end of trainers that were given to me. Total dogs but I have still never had a flame out with the 40 or 46. I found the air bleed carb idiot proof and didn't see the added tons of power when comparing the LA against the FX. The new AX is a different mater. At one point I had 8 of the LAs installed in my Uproars during the fun fly era. I just gave away the last one I had two years ago so a friend could replace the old Fox he had in a plane. Much improvement. And for the price they are hard to beat unless you plan on flying with a 46 for a long time. Then the cost of the AX may be worth it? I do feel OS has priced themselves out of the reach of a lot of new to the hobby people. As I mentioned, I haven't bought a new engine other then the SK in a long time. I buy used and rebuild. I only know one guy at the lake bed that has bought a new small two stroke OS engine. I do see a couple new four strokes but for the price people I fly with have all gone bigger and are using the DLE gas engines.

bikerbc

I agree with John about the 46LA It is a bushed engine and not as user friendly as the OS46AX .. The OS46AX is my favorite engine...The Magnum engines are pretty good for the price but for myself I like to spend the extra and get myself an OS, weather it be a four stroke or a two stroke...I just have better luck with them . Plus I deal with Horizion and if I have trouble with an OS they will back it up ...I do not know about the service on a Magnum

bikerbc

I think the Tiger 60 would be a good choice for a build..It sort of falls into the war bird pattern , low wing and you can easily make it a tail dragger...It is a nice looking plane, With a OS75AX it really zips and yet it is quite manageable...It is a low wing trainer...The Tiger II is another choice..Its a bit smaller and so maybe a bit faster...

spd101

The eagle 2 is more compact so it helps with portability, but the LT 40 will help with the wind you have to deal with, i had a evolution. 46 on my LT 40 and it was awesome. The LT 40 comes with a book by Sig that is extremely helpful about getting into flying. The eagle 2 is a great learning platform for building and flying. You cant go wrong with either plane

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

Wow, deja vu. I'm teaching a fire fighter here in Austin. He started off learning on his own with foamys and made progress, but got to a point where he stagnated. His wife bought him a foam P-47 then came to us. We put a few flights on the club trainer, then buddy boxed the P-47. He would have never been able to trim that plane on his own. Trashed it a week later. Short story is, he knows a lot, but is disorganized. We are in the process of going through an accelerated training program using the club trainer. I teach to a program which gives him flight exercises to do until he's ready to move to the next. His schedule, like yours, makes it hard to meet up but I think his patience is finally winning over.

I for one am a big fan of the Kadet LT-40, but any trainer will do, go with as simple an engine as you can get. You want to spend time flying, learning field etiquette, aerodynamics, maintenance, and much more. You dont want to waste time messing around with a cantankerous plane. Get good quality stuff. Like others have said, I fly them for years and years, and do high time maintenance on them. I prefer saito for 4-strokes. I've messed with enough magnums to know that quality has improved over the years but not enough for me to buy them, just my opinion. I do engine repairs for club members. This hobby is a blast and has so many different skills that can be used, it will last your life time if you're so inclined.
Edwin

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

If you wanna move into warbirds eventually, I would recommend going right into gas engines. I would say, look for a trainer that will fly with a DLE 20. Then you can use that engine to advance further until you get to your warbird. You will learn about dealing with Gasoline powered engines, and this will give you a head start. I would not bother with glow at all as they are ddying on the vine. The future is gas.

GadgetGeek

Hi;
Lots of great info. However, if you want to use a gas engine and fly a fun trainer type plane I would recommend the Sig Cadet Senior. Like the Eagle 2 only bigger and with SIG quality. And being bigger it will handle a larger gas engine which makes the power to weight ratio much nicer. One of the main flyers in my club has this and he loves it.

sprgfvr02

My Feedback: (1)

If you really want to learn to fly with a gas trainer, try looking at Maxford. They have a plane that uses a CRRC 26cc engine. It is the 'Mentor'. I bought one in 2011 and have flown it many times. I bought it to get a plane I could play with gas engines. The plane is a high wing trainer with an 82 inch wingspan. I don't know the current price, but I bought mine as a bundle (engine and plane) for $400. I think it is a bit more now. Check it out.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Oh man you are too late haven't you heard the electric evangelicals are trying to stomp you out also!

Most I think would agree that each of the power disciplines have their missions that they do best and its all good. The future is an interesting thing after all look at controlline, long thought extinct but now vibrant and growing rapidly in these depression times and guess what its 2.4 on throttles that is contributing to that newest growth. Go figure?


John

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

If you can fly a helicopter, then I think you'll be bored silly after just a couple of flights with a high wing trainer. I’d say go with the Goldberg Tiger 60, or with something like the Bruce Tharpe Venture 60.

http://www.btemodels.com/venture.html

It was my second plane, and I believe with a little help, you'll be flying it quite easily. Even just one check flight can tell if the CG is correct and the control surfaces are set up properly.

It has a very light wing loading (19 oz / sq ft) which means it will really slow down for landing. Landings are one of the scariest things for a newbie, so this will ease you along.

Once you're comfortable with it, you could even remove one wing bay off each side and add some lead to make it fly more 'warbird like'.

You can download the manual and see if you can understand what the steps are.

It is a very nice kit. The only thing is that I am not sure if he has them in stock. I remember back when I bought mine that supply was an issue for him.

Just my 2 cents.

dce21b

I think I'm going to stick with a high wing trainer because I would eventually like to try and get my son and wife flying eventually and even though I'm confident in my abilities they are not.

This was my original thinking, to start with what I plan on using and not use old technology and equipment. That way I can learn the equipment and maintenance need to up keep my stuff. Also to cut back on having a bunch of redudant stuff hanging around. I see alot of guys now trying to get rid of their old glow stuff to go gas and electric is something im not interested in.

I am still open to the idea.. in fact i would prefer it. But I am not jumping into anything yet until I make a solid decision. Could anyone pair up a gas engine with a good trainer? Would any available gas engine fit into a Kadet LT-40? I'm still trying to figure out how gas power engines convert to the glow engine sizes.

Is the Sig Kadet Senior the same plane design as the Kadet LT-40 only bigger? From what I understand though its an older kit, Die Cut and does not inclued all the parts to complete the plane that the Kadet LT-40 comes with.

Thanks for the suggestion but I'm looking for a kit.




Ok update... after looking further into getting the Eagle II I was a bit taken back by the final price point that didn't include servos, receiver battery etc. With the engine, parts I needed for mods and building supplies I was looking at spending between 350-400 dollars. So I was a bit taken back. Not so much about the money I know this hobby is gonna be a money pit regardless but I would also like to get more bang for the buck.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

So confused, you say it has to be a gasser and now it has to be an LT-40. The LT 40 as well as the eagle trainers are too small An airframe for any of the practical gassers out there.

John

dce21b

It doesn't have to be anything. I'm moving away from the Eagle because I believe it will cost significantly more to complete the plane how I want it then LT-40. The LT-40 has alot more build threads and information available to make me more confident in doing the build.

I would really like to use gas out of convienance then to have to stock up on nitro... not that its a game breaker its just what I was thinking.

The Senior Kadet seems a bit larger then the LT-40 I was wonding if that would be suitable for a larger gas engine.

Regardless im thinking of going nitro and building a LT-40.

Sorry for the confusion... I must be making you guys feel like I do clothes shopping with my wife lol.

dce21b

Would this work in the LT-40? It has the same deminsions as the saito fa-40... it just weighs twice as much.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

The last one you listed is the sensible choice both in performance and suitability for the airplane. It is the 46AX series 11 that I first recommended in Post 20, it should be at the top of the list. The saito 40 would also work ok. Both of those gas engines will incur considerably more weight since you must remember you will be adding an ignition system to be mounted somewhere and will have to carry a second battery pack to be charged separately each time.

The LT-40 is not practical for a gas engine. You are going to engineer yourself into an impractical ship and likely be very disappointed. There are a lot of those out there mostly they never make the trip to the flying sites since the are so unpleasant to fly and become hanger queens.

The Senior Kadet has a 78 inch wing in kit form and the LT-40 is 70. It is not the same structure and built much lighter its my opinion that even it is far better off with glow engines. Here is a case in point, Last year when I ran my first Kadet Senior pylon races races one the fellows insisted on using some gas engine that is 15cc I cannot even remember the engine. At any rate it was a three round event and he could only keep it running just one round and the performance was pathetic. Even one of the Kadets using a 35AX was far better.

John

dce21b

I know... why do you think i picked it

mike109

G'day

I have had about 8 or 9 Kadet Seniors. I have had two Kadet LT-25s. I have also had two Senioritas (small Seniors) and two LT 40s. I guess you could say I have tried the Kadet range. I also have a Kadet Mk 2. I don't like it.

The Seniors. They have had various engines ranging from a very old and very powerless OS FS 40 to one which briefly had an ASP (same as Magnum) 91 four stroke. My all time favorite, which I still fly and is now about 8 years old, is a kit built version (no ailerons). For a long time it had a Saito 56 which was perfect. Then I needed the 56 for another project so I put a Saito 62 in it. Also perfect but a bit more power.

Another has a Laser 70 (beautiful hand made British four stroke) and I still have it. It has a modified wing with ailerons. It is OK to fly but I prefer the original.

Yet another has a Saito 90R3 three cylinder radial. Why? Because I wanted to run the engine in. It has very little power for its size and needs 20% fuel to keep going. I would not recommend this.

I have also seen two stroke powered ones but I like my Saitos and OS four strokes better.

The LT 25s. The first had a Magnum 30 four stroke which suited it extremely well. Later on it got a Leo 46 two stroke (briefly - too powerful and heavy) and ended up with a Thunder Tiger GP 25 when I gave it away. The second, which I still fly and which I LOVE flying, has an Enya 36 AAC four stroke. It is PERFECT. Nice power, quiet and very economical. Any decent 25 two stroke would also be good.

LT 40s. The first was an ARF and started out with a Saito 62 which suited it extremely well. Then I sold it to a friend and I put an Enya 40SS plain bearing engine in it for him. It was perfect for the trainer. Not underpowered at all but the muffler was quite noisy. This engine became lost after a prang and has been replaced with an OS LA 46 which is perfect for the model. Plenty of power, very economical and VERY easy to use.

The Senioritas. The first was kit built (no ailerons) and started with a Magnum 30 which was a perfect fit. At one stage I a PAW 15 (2.5cc) diesel in it. Senioritas do not need a lot of engine. The little PAW flew it perfectly. The current one is one of Hobby King's. It really is a Seniorita but they call it a Margurita. It is electric with a 25 size brushless and is a delight to fly.

I am currently building another kit built LT-40. It will probably have either my Saito 56 or Saito 62. Then again, I might go mad and put a PAW 40 diesel I have in it. An OS LA 46 would be my other choice for serious teaching/learning.

Mike in Oz

dce21b

Ok I'm hoping to place an order today.

Im gonna get the Kadet LT-40 with either the O.S. .55AX or the .46AXII as suggested by John and i think a few others.

Should I go with the

.55AX
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detai...p?ID=200808458

or the .46AX?
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detai...p?ID=200878211

I'm gonna order these at the same time so i can make sure i build the firewall right.

gene6029

I own several of the 55AXs & i like them. Never owned the 46 so i can advise on it. I use the 55s in both pattern planes & fun fly models & they have lots of power. We have guys at our club useing the Evolution 10cc gas motors in the same size airframes with great sucess. I'm thinking of picking up one of those myself to play with....Gene

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

You have made some excellent decisions. Either one work very well indeed and both will provide more that needed power without excessive weight. The better than average throttling of these engines is where they really shine and the reason having more power than needed is not a problem .

Just so you will know let me give you a little history about the AX line. The original .46AX was introduced I think around maybe seven years ago it was intended as a replacement for the .46FX. The FX's most all of them were formerly my favorites and I loved them I think having around 16 25FX that I used especially for my multi engine airplanes.

The 46FX I beleve experianced a bad production run and experianced cylinder peeling some years back and I beleve it was only one batch but that stigma may have promted OS to an early introduction to the new AX line and specifically the original .46AX. This AX While a fine engine in it own right ended up being an orphan an unlike all the rest of the later AX's with a vastly different carburator and setup that has been used on all the subsiquient AX's and while I do not consider myself an engine man I do feel this is one of the key points that made the AX's so special.

The 46AX11 or series 11 is now is an AX inside out and and just like the rest of the series, Its a great choice.

John

tevans55

Based on your original post a viable option would be a 1/4 scale Hangar 9 cub with a DLE 30 cc gas engine.

It is a great flying 4 channel plane, gas engine, and a gas engine that you can use in many warbirds later.

You can also use this plane to teach the whole family to fly.

I use it at or club to teach people how to fly and to buddy box people that just want to try flying.

Sorry to throw a wrench in the works this late in the decision making process!

Good Luck, you have a lot of good choices.