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Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

Old 03-21-2013, 04:16 PM
  #76  
jester_s1
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

If it's "elitist" to think that learning a technique from someone with experience is better than screwing up on your own until you figure it out, then ok, many of us are elitists. I find that in nearly any discipline, there are people around that are simply anti-education. They somehow get the idea in their head that it's better to take twice and long and spend twice as much to get the same results than to let someone else who knows more tell them anything. It's a weird sort of narcissism that says, "I'm better than you because I did it without any help." I knew some really ignorant hicks growing up in north Mississippi that would go on and on and on about how much better and smarter they were than the college educated types because of their learning by experience instead of reading books. They were wrong, and the wannabe savants among us are too.

Myself, I say enjoy the hobby however you want to as long as you're safe and don't cause a PR problem for the rest of us. The anti-education types also tend to be the anti-rules types, so I'd just as soon see them go do something else. But if they can obey the safety code and not embarrass the rest of us then by all means, they should go have a great time. I don't think I'm a better human being or necessarily even a better pilot because I learned from others. But I know I spent less time and money doing it that way and am glad I took advantage of others who were willing to explain things to me and help me get my skills right. Why anyone would turn their nose up at that is beyond my ability to comprehend, aside from the narcissism mentioned above.
Old 03-21-2013, 07:19 PM
  #77  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

If it's ''elitist'' to think that learning a technique from someone with experience is better than screwing up on your own until you figure it out, then ok, many of us are elitists. I find that in nearly any discipline, there are people around that are simply anti-education. They somehow get the idea in their head that it's better to take twice and long and spend twice as much to get the same results than to let someone else who knows more tell them anything. It's a weird sort of narcissism that says, ''I'm better than you because I did it without any help.'' I knew some really ignorant hicks growing up in north Mississippi that would go on and on and on about how much better and smarter they were than the college educated types because of their learning by experience instead of reading books. They were wrong, and the wannabe savants among us are too.

Myself, I say enjoy the hobby however you want to as long as you're safe and don't cause a PR problem for the rest of us. The anti-education types also tend to be the anti-rules types, so I'd just as soon see them go do something else. But if they can obey the safety code and not embarrass the rest of us then by all means, they should go have a great time. I don't think I'm a better human being or necessarily even a better pilot because I learned from others. But I know I spent less time and money doing it that way and am glad I took advantage of others who were willing to explain things to me and help me get my skills right. Why anyone would turn their nose up at that is beyond my ability to comprehend, aside from the narcissism mentioned above.
Great post, I think most college kids think they are alot smarter than they actually are though lol.
Old 03-21-2013, 08:57 PM
  #78  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

College kids yes, most are idiots. But educated adults who have both formal training and practical experience know more about both their field and life in general than the ones who never left home and expanded their horizons.
Old 03-21-2013, 11:07 PM
  #79  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.

The part that I find to be funny is how focused you guys are on failure. Are none of you guys coordinated or athletic? Bad vision maybe? Mouth breathers? All of you sound way too dependent on others. Do your wives dress you too

I am kidding about the above. I know you all are coming at it with the best interest of others in mind. However, it is time to expand your Horizons a bit in this Hobby.

See what I did there?

GB


Old 03-21-2013, 11:50 PM
  #80  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: GBLynden

I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.

The part that I find to be funny is how focused you guys are on failure. Are none of you guys coordinated or athletic? Bad vision maybe? Mouth breathers? All of you sound way too dependent on others. Do your wives dress you too [img][/img]

I am kidding about the above. I know you all are coming at it with the best interest of others in mind. However, it is time to expand your Horizons a bit in this Hobby.

See what I did there?

GB


You sir are an exception to the rule and this does not give you the authority to speak for others. You need to start driving stock cars so you can become the leader of the pack.
Old 03-22-2013, 07:00 AM
  #81  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

I'd have to agree. When you talk to some of the guys who have been in the hobby for 20 years, they all have stories of the fellows who couldn't be told anything and left the hobby after failing too many times. There are also stories of the guys who were hard headed and made it, but spent twice the money on busted airplanes than they should have if they would have just sought some help. There are a few stories of guys who are wired well for this and picked it up easily without help, and there are a lot of stories of guys who listened to those with more experience than themselves and learned how to do things correctly the first time and got good at flying painlessly and quickly. Barring the special cases that are exceptionally talented, I'll take the last option any day.
Old 03-22-2013, 07:57 AM
  #82  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: Luchnia

... have decent skills with rudder, not necesarrily over the top, but decent. ...
Luchnia,

What are "over the top" rudder skills? I'm thinking I might want to be over the top, but I don't know what that means.

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 08:09 AM
  #83  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

ORIGINAL: GBLynden

I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.

The part that I find to be funny is how focused you guys are on failure. Are none of you guys coordinated or athletic? Bad vision maybe? Mouth breathers? All of you sound way too dependent on others. Do your wives dress you too [img][/img]

I am kidding about the above. I know you all are coming at it with the best interest of others in mind. However, it is time to expand your Horizons a bit in this Hobby.

See what I did there?

GB


Hahaha, why because they have more experience than you and know how learning yourself typically ends in many crashed planes and quitting the hobby? Then yes snobby old farts.... makes since. How does being athletic or not have anything to do with flying an rc plane?
Old 03-22-2013, 08:11 AM
  #84  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

College kids yes, most are idiots. ..
I have to disagree with jester_s1 on this one. "Most" are not idiots, and your statement makes you sound like an unhappy old fart - but i don't think you are.

I learned way back when on a very structured protocol with the club pres (late '70s). I don't think I flew a loop for almost a year. In contrast, I have seen new guys learn in days what it took me years - I have a friend who started attending our indoor fly-ins. He taught himself to fly indoors (not easy!), now flies aerobatics and combat with us and he has never worked with an instructor nor has he ever been to a hobby shop. Sounds like a "college idiot"....but wait, he's over 50.

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 08:14 AM
  #85  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: Bozarth


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

College kids yes, most are idiots. ..
I have to disagree with jester_s1 on this one. ''Most'' are not idiots, and your statement makes you sound like an unhappy old fart - but i don't think you are.

I learned way back when on a very structured protocol with the club pres (late '70s). I don't think I flew a loop for almost a year. In contrast, I have seen new guys learn in days what it took me years - I have a friend who started attending our indoor fly-ins. He taught himself to fly indoors (not easy!), now flies aerobatics and combat with us and he has never worked with an instructor nor has he ever been to a hobby shop. Sounds like a ''college idiot''....but wait, he's over 50.

Kurt
I don't think his statement had anything to do with rc, just that most college kids think they are sooo smart whether they are or not.
Old 03-22-2013, 08:18 AM
  #86  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

ORIGINAL: GBLynden

While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.
Again that is merely an anecdotal response which has NOTHING to do with years and years of experience teaching hundreds of thousands of novices.

The fact that you say "While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon" also implies a self perceived quantity of irresponsibility in what you are doing.

You didn't start out by saying "I fly by AMA guidelines and I doubt the AMA would have any problem with what I do." . Your response is indicative of a boastful "renegade" approach.

Chuck at the least is not advocating any such irresponsibility and I've seen him give VERY good advice on other threads to novices about seeking help and also when "doing it alone".

Most of the do-it-yourselfers get poor "do-it-yourself" advice and go out and fly on public lands or locations where such things are proscribed, thanks in large part to what they hear.

Forget their ability, forget the types of planes they fly, but remember a litigious public anxious about any perceived threats from RC aircraft.

Take everything in total, the assertion that telling a novice to "do it alone" is the worst advice you can give.

Old 03-22-2013, 08:19 AM
  #87  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: t-max97


ORIGINAL: Bozarth


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

College kids yes, most are idiots. ..
I have to disagree with jester_s1 on this one. ''Most'' are not idiots, and your statement makes you sound like an unhappy old fart - but i don't think you are.

I learned way back when on a very structured protocol with the club pres (late '70s). I don't think I flew a loop for almost a year. In contrast, I have seen new guys learn in days what it took me years - I have a friend who started attending our indoor fly-ins. He taught himself to fly indoors (not easy!), now flies aerobatics and combat with us and he has never worked with an instructor nor has he ever been to a hobby shop. Sounds like a ''college idiot''....but wait, he's over 50.

Kurt
I don't think his statement had anything to do with rc, just that most college kids think they are sooo smart whether they are or not.

I don't know anyone who knows "most" college kids nor what "most" think. I don't even think I know what "most" rc guys think.

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 08:57 AM
  #88  
Chucksolo69
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

I can assure you that the clubs I belong to, formal, and informal, definately adhere to all AMA guide lines where we fly. One of our "informal" flying fields is at the local Senior Center and those of us who fly there are all AMA and we fly there like it is a formal club. The longer I am in this hobby, the more I get attuned to things. There are simply some folks that will be able to learn the way GBLynden suggests, and there are those that won't. For those that won't, the club/instructor thing is the way to go, although I have seen some that don't get it even with an instructor.

The bottom line is, nowadays, with all that the current technology has to offer it is possible to learn "on your own" without spending a ton of cash. I did it, and so can others. There are so many awesome possibilities in this hobby that it staggers the imagination to think that 15-20 years ago, this hobby was pretty much an elite realm, and I don't mean that disparagingly; maybe that's what makes the "learn to fly by yourself" idea so abhorrant to the old guard, I don't know.  To be honest, without the VI software and stabalization built into the HZ Firebird Stratos, I may have failed. I will never know because that was the first non-helicopter RC aircraft I flew and I did it successfully the first time. Sure I crashed her a couple of times, but repairs were made and she flew again.

I do admit that I bought more than my share of trainers, but I enjoyed all of them. Money wasted? I don't think so. They gave me pleasure and that is all that counted. Like I have mentioned, those trainers are in the hands of select family and friends now and those planes continue to do their job well for those untrained folks. I love this hobby and will continue to recommend certain trainers based on my experience, but, I will also continue to recommend getting help from a club/instructor. That just makes sense.
Old 03-22-2013, 09:17 AM
  #89  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

     I'm an old fart and not nearways snobbish but I'm about to become one of those quitters.  I've flown for four years now, self taught with Real Flight sim and started with ugly stiks, high wings and graduated to low wings and even some sporty planes such as the Revolver but I truly believe there are just some people that aren't cut out for this hobby, me bieng one of them.
     I have mostly bought "experienced" planes so the investment wasn't so high and have built at least 20 planes (arfs) and the ego got into this game and I know I have probably close to $20k in inventory now from boxes of unbuilt arfs to work in progress to final tweeking planes ready to fly. 
I know I have wrecked at least 25 planes and recently lost a brand new Revolver with a new Evo 60nx on her,a brand new PTS P51 modified for the new Evo 60 gas and just Sunday lost a nice 3D profile with a 125 saito on her after trying several landing passes with some 15 mph crosswinds and then gusts dropped on me on my final attempt and she headed right for me so I hammered the throttle and ran her through a fence post..  STUPID STUPID STUPID. 
     Seriously there are so many scenarios that can't be taught even on buddy box.  Most buddy boxers will do basics and when the scenario warrants will NOT let a trainee recover from a potential disaster so that isn't the cure for events that I have failed to handle properly.
I'm not saying buddy box is bad.  I don't think starting buddy box is the right beginning.  A person needs to have a "bind feel" for how the sticks operate and the reaction that gives his aircraft LONG before he achieves his frist actual flight.  From there, it's a lot of luck and practice practice practice.  Unfortunately there are disasters which will get in the way of this hobby but I'm one of those that I think just doesn't do things right and have lost an incredible amount of money to this hobby which I love dearly.
     I must have 50 planes in various stages of new to beaters.  The ones I have spent all sorts of time making sure of balance, cgs, tank set up, etc have gone to trash sacks.  The Revolver was hot on landings so I made 5 passes slowing clicking down one click at a time to get her to slow down and the last turn into landing she just spiraled to death.  Cost me an brand new engine and plane.
    The P51 lost all power (battery y'd to the ignition and receiver 2300 Mah 6V new battery that test 99% after the crash) .  Engine quit, receiver quit so it somehow lost voltage across the board but we couldn't determine why.  
    Unfortunately build planes don't ship cheap so trying to sell on the internet is hardly worth it but after at least $5k in losses in 4 years is enough.  
   I need to take up needle point or cross stitch I guess.  Flying just isn't for me.  
And my 2 cents worth for the young kids.   Fearless, fiesty, and have much better dexterity so they make it interesting always.   

Old 03-22-2013, 09:35 AM
  #90  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: Bozarth


ORIGINAL: t-max97


ORIGINAL: Bozarth


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

College kids yes, most are idiots. ..
I have to disagree with jester_s1 on this one. ''Most'' are not idiots, and your statement makes you sound like an unhappy old fart - but i don't think you are.

I learned way back when on a very structured protocol with the club pres (late '70s). I don't think I flew a loop for almost a year. In contrast, I have seen new guys learn in days what it took me years - I have a friend who started attending our indoor fly-ins. He taught himself to fly indoors (not easy!), now flies aerobatics and combat with us and he has never worked with an instructor nor has he ever been to a hobby shop. Sounds like a ''college idiot''....but wait, he's over 50.

Kurt
I don't think his statement had anything to do with rc, just that most college kids think they are sooo smart whether they are or not.

I don't know anyone who knows ''most'' college kids nor what ''most'' think. I don't even think I know what ''most'' rc guys think.

Kurt
Haha, just my opinion chill out lol. You wouldn't happen to be in college would you? Just kidding. I didn't say anything about what most "think" I said I think most think they are smarter than they are, from having college education or just the general age idk but that's my opinion. Just in case you took it wrong I didn't mean I think college doesn't make you any smarter or isn't a great thing to go to, because it does and is but it doesn't always make you as smart as some of them think they are is all I mean't.
Old 03-22-2013, 09:40 AM
  #91  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

No problem! I understand what you are saying.

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 11:00 AM
  #92  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: t-max97


ORIGINAL: Bozarth


ORIGINAL: t-max97


ORIGINAL: Bozarth


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

College kids yes, most are idiots. ..
I have to disagree with jester_s1 on this one. ''Most'' are not idiots, and your statement makes you sound like an unhappy old fart - but i don't think you are.

I learned way back when on a very structured protocol with the club pres (late '70s). I don't think I flew a loop for almost a year. In contrast, I have seen new guys learn in days what it took me years - I have a friend who started attending our indoor fly-ins. He taught himself to fly indoors (not easy!), now flies aerobatics and combat with us and he has never worked with an instructor nor has he ever been to a hobby shop. Sounds like a ''college idiot''....but wait, he's over 50.

Kurt
I don't think his statement had anything to do with rc, just that most college kids think they are sooo smart whether they are or not.
Your an Obama fan no doubt.
I don't know anyone who knows ''most'' college kids nor what ''most'' think. I don't even think I know what ''most'' rc guys think.

Kurt
Haha, just my opinion chill out lol. You wouldn't happen to be in college would you? Just kidding. I didn't say anything about what most ''think'' I said I think most think they are smarter than they are, from having college education or just the general age idk but that's my opinion. Just in case you took it wrong I didn't mean I think college doesn't make you any smarter or isn't a great thing to go to, because it does and is but it doesn't always make you as smart as some of them think they are is all I mean't.
Old 03-22-2013, 02:23 PM
  #93  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

SIMULATOR... best money you will ever spend.

ARE WE REALLY HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN??
Old 03-22-2013, 02:35 PM
  #94  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight


ORIGINAL: on_your_six

SIMULATOR... best money you will ever spend.

ARE WE REALLY HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN??

You should shut it down!!! Please!

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

I started with a hz super cub, I taught my self, it was a expensive. In retrospect it would have been cheaper if I would have joined the club. But I kept it up and got a sensi trainer which then I joined a club, not because I wanted to but it was too big to fly on my own land. Not too long after that I got a 40 size gp big stick and worked with a experienced flyer, I was flying it after 2 weeks. I got a low wing trainer and now I'm doing sport planes and starting on warbirds, have I crashed planes yes most have been mechanical problems but that is the hobby. I think people learn different ways, I don't believe there is only one way to learn. The only thing I am pickey about is using things like gyros and other electronics to make it easier to fly. I want to do it with skill
Old 03-22-2013, 05:21 PM
  #96  
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ORIGINAL: Hawk131
The only thing I am pickey about is using things like gyros and other electronics to make it easier to fly. I want to do it with skill
Well since you object to "gyros and other electronics" that make it easier to fly - maybe you should study the aerodynamic concepts of static and dynamic stability before you dismiss such items. You should move your cg back a few inches - that would require much more skill. Or drastically reduce the size of your horizontal and vertical stabilizers - that would require more skill. Maybe you are just lucky that your planes have adequate stability included in their designs. Stabilizers (i.e. electronic, vertical, horizontal, etc.) are not auto pilots.

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 05:27 PM
  #97  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

Actually I have a Goldberg Cub, and yes I have to use a lot of rudder. I don't knock anyone for using gyros and other means for stability. I just don't want to use them.
Old 03-22-2013, 05:34 PM
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

My point is that stability, no matter how it is provided, is not a substitute for skill in maneuvering an airplane. A computer provides stability in an F-16 - and takes nothing away from the skill the pilot shows in maneuvering the airplane to exactly where it needs to be.

Come up to Denver and pylon race with us - we have several classes. We have a new field in the works!

Kurt
Old 03-22-2013, 05:40 PM
  #99  
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

Agreed, Thanks for the invite, I still need some more experience before I do that, but when I do I will try to get up there. Oh and I'm guessing you guys like us won't be flying this weekend unless its indoors:-)
Old 03-22-2013, 05:43 PM
  #100  
flycatch
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Default RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight

This is my take plain and simple. It is all about money. The more people in the hobby the more money to be made by the manufactures. The new wave in the model helicopter faternity is "fly by less" rotor heads. FBL rotor heads is not knew but the electronics are and the claim is these machines are easier to fly without a flybar. The same thing can be said of electronics added to fixed wing aircraft. If you have an on-board flight control system than the probability of crashing goes down and more people stay in the hobby. One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.

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