chadxp1

My Feedback: (2)

Ok, so I made a "beginners" mistake by installing golden rod for my elevator and rudder (40 size airplane). I think I already know the answer to my question but I wanted to get everyones take on this. Should I replace the golden rod with steel pushrods? I have not floan the plane yet. Its is a brand new kit. Im worried about flutter at higher speeds, sloppy control and any other thing that may go bad. I have read about the going out of trim problems due to temperature changes. I dont know if I should worry about this??
Before you says yes I should say that I did do a good job installing the golden rod. Its supported very well. Also I do not want to tear into this thing.

If I need to change out what are my options? Does putting small sections of golden rod around the pushrod work? Any other things I need to consider when replacing? I think its fairly straight shot from the servos to the control horns.

Thanks
Chad

countilaw

Chad, I've used 2/56 steel music wire inside the blue golden rod tubes for push rods on many airplanes. As long as the blue tube is secured to several formers through the fuselage. I solder threaded brass ends for the steel clevises. One the servo end of the push rod I solder on steel clevises. Some guys/girls will use z bends which are fine also.

Frank

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

First order of business, What exact airplane are talking about?

Have you already installed the golden rods and why do think you may have made a mistake?

Do you think you have made a mistake based solely on just reading negatives here at this forum?

If it is installed how does it work, can you grab the elevator servo and the elevator horn and push them at each other without the golden rod deforming like a snake?

While I am no fan of that system it can work perfectly well if properly installed, Soooo whats up?

John

gene6029

I agree with John about the golden rods not being my first choice, but the key to them working properly is that they need to be supported so they dont bend or flex. A good way to test this is to operate your servo & hold the rudder, elevator etc with your fingers & operate the radio to move that control surface you are holding. If the golden rod bends easily instead of trying to move the control surface you are holding in your fingers you need to reinforce the golden rods ( usually by glueing a cross brace over & under the golden rod from one side of the fuse to the other). The elevator is probably the most critical surface on a trainer to be concerned with, so get that one right. The ailerons will just make the plane roll lazy or slow or not at all. If the rudder is connected to the nose gear your steering wont be effective or reliable on grass if it flexes. I have used golden rods myself on trainers and they will work if properly supported.....Gene

PS.... Just replaceing golden rods with a 2-56 or even a 4-40 rod will still flex or bend also over a long run thru your fuse if they are not supported also. If you have a straight shot thru the fuse & you cant get in there to add support, you might want to consider useing a wood dowl rod with 2-56 or 4-40 short metal rod ends that will accept a clevis or z bend. The appropriate size carbon fiber rod with the same metal ends JB welded is another option......Gene

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

I am a fan of the Goldenrods. I use them on just about everything that uses rods to the rear. I rough up the casing, the tube, right where it passes by a former and then apply some epoxy to hold it in place. I do that at every former. I also reinforce where the tube exits the fuselage to insure that it will not flex during flight.

I have a method of attaching clevis's to the goldenrods, but it's a tad bit complicated to put here, so I'll just say that my method keeps the rods straight and prevents flexing at the rear most point of the tube.

My second plane was a Tiger 60 with an OS .61 SF engine. I used goldenrods but failed to secure them properly. What resulted was that the faster I flew the plane, the softer the response was with elevator input. This was because the tubes flexed under stress as John mentioned. It didn't take me long to fix the problem and taught me a valuable lesson about how to use the Goldenrods.

CGr.

sensei

My bad, double post...

Bob

sensei

+1

You just need to make sure the outer jacket is glued well and supported in enough areas to prevent movement under load.

Bob

exocet-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

You can also take the golden rod out, find the correct diameter of steel rod that will slide inside the golden rod and then cut the golden rod into half inch lengths. Then put the golden rod over the steel rod at about 2-3 inch intervals, secure with just a drop of CA (just to keep them in place when you put the rod back into the blue sleeve) and reinstall. That way the steel rod is supported by the golden rod in the tube the entire length of the run. You will have the strength and rigidity of the steel without having to tear up the fuse and replace everything.

Tim

jester_s1

A 2-56 steel tube isn't any stiffer than a golden rod, at least not stiffer enough to do you any good. Assuming you really did install them correctly, meaning the outer tube is supported properly, you'll be fine. I've heard guys talk about getting trim changes from temperature swings, but I don't buy it. Steel is going to expand more with temperature changes than plastic will, and all the guys running rod in a tube setups or pull pull setups don't have to redo their setup every time they go out. Sloppy control comes from poorly installed in inadequately strong pushrods. Again, if you've actually done it right the controls will be as rigid with the golden rod as it would be with anything else. For your flutter concerns, flutter isn't caused by sloppy control rods. It can be controlled somewhat with good rigid ones, but that's not the cause. If you are flying a plane that is prone to flutter and pushing the speed beyond what it's really intended for, mass balancing your control surfaces will fix the actual cause.

jetmech05

The only issue I've had with golden for is the trimming and retrimming due to temp change. They will not cause flutter

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I just used GR for the elevator in my Swoose builds. The little problem with heat changing the trim is minor and I have never gotten a flutter from the controls when using it. I wouldn't bother changing it.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

I am building a Great Planes RV-4 and was very surprised to find that the kit came with steel rods for control but plastic outer tubes for them to run in. That seems to be OK for tubes that are absolutely or very close to straight, but in a tube that has much curve to it, I am not sure. This kit uses twin tubes, one on each side, for the elevator and they are pretty much dead straight. Steel rods work fine there. But the one tube that goes to the rudder has a couple turns it it and the steel rod binds pretty bad in that tube. I am thinking seriously of replacing it with the inner Golden Rod. I have no problem with them if, as the others have said, they are supported properly.

Villa

Hi chadxp1
I have used Golden Rods for maybe 40 years and am very happy with them.

chadxp1

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you all for your comments. I think Im going to keep them. I was doubting myself and the golden rods but listening to everyones advice I think I will keep them. I have read before all the negative comments and a few positive ones.

i did make sure to epoxy them in per directions.I pulled the wing of tonight to take a look. There is only a very small amount of play. Also I dont think I could use metal push rods as there are a couple bends that I would be worried about.

Ok one more question, I beleive I installed the smaller diameter stuff, red outer jacket. Tower lists them as semi-flexible. I did not know there was a larger diameter rod unitl I came across one in my stock pile of parts (blue jacket). Will this be ok or should I be worried.

Oh and by the way the plane is a Simple Flier.

mike109

G'day

The biggest problem I have had with Golden Rods (and I like to use them) is when the plan calls for the push rod to exit the model a fair distance from the control surface. On some models, this can have the yellow part on its own outside the model for several inches. This leads to the possibility of the yellow rod flexing under load.

When this happens, I simply push a trimmed piece of Dubro metal pushrod with a 2-56 threaded end inside the yellow tube, unthreaded end first, and I then screw about half the thread into the end of the yellow rod. I cut the piece of metal rod so that it just goes inside the model. Sometimes it needs a small bend to make it work without binding. Then I put a clevis on the threaded end to connect to the horn. I have been doing this for years on models up to 60 size with no problems.

I also agree that the rods do need to be well supported inside the model.

At the servo end I either use EZ connectors on small models with a rod screwed into the end of the yellow rod or a rod and a solder clevis on larger models. I have never had these fail.

Cheers

Mike in Oz

Villa

Hi chadxp1
Glad to read you are going to keep the golden rods. Attached is a tool that someone else suggested for threading the threaded rod into the center, hollow, plastic rod. It works GREAT!!! The electric wire nut is filled with epoxie. A metal clevis is inserted into the epoxie. I also thread on a short piece of threaded rod into the clevice which will serve to stop to prevent the rod you are enserting into the plastic from going too far into the tool clevis. The explanation is a bit complicated but the tool is GREAT!!! Let me know what you and others think.

jester_s1

That's a little bit more elegant than my needle nose pliers going round and round method. Both get the job done though.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I just chuck the metal threaded end into an electric drill. Done in seconds!!!

chadxp1

My Feedback: (2)

Villa, that is a great idea. I see exactly how that works. I like Gray Beard use the drill idea but there have been times where as I need to remove the threaded rod and cant get a drill into the area, therefore the electrical nut/clevis tool would work great. Thanks for the tip.

Chad

chadxp1

My Feedback: (2)

Villa, that is a great idea. I see exactly how that works. I like Gray Beard use the drill idea but there have been times where as I need to remove the threaded rod and cant get a drill into the area, therefore the electrical nut/clevis tool would work great. Thanks for the tip.

Chad