jim billings

I'm sold on the Eagle tree Guardian. I'm installing it on ALL my planes (balsa and foam). My personal feelings are that I am not interested in contests or becoming an expert in flying RC planes. I simply want to fly my planes, do a few SIMPLE moves, and land without any major damage. The Guardian allows me to do just that.

A question: What's the best way to determine the setting for pitch in order to fly level? Should I put a level on the stabilizer/elevator to determine the level attitude of the plane? Or do I use some other criterion? I have used the stabilizer method and the plane seems to want to climb at about half throttle. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

JIm Billings in Fort Worth

bikerbc

It probably takes more skill to set your plane up to function properly with these little devices than it it does to fly with out them.. I have only flowen a Nexstar with an auto pilot installed in it and I found it harder to fly so I could see if a person didn't know what they were doing possibly these little stabilizer things might fight you for control and make it harder to fly .. I think its like anything else , if somebody wants to explore that aspect of the hobby then let them explore it.. This hobby is big enough for us all and we dont all need to be doing the same things.. Maybe when I need the use of some of these things( and this could be soon) the path will be paved and I will not need to know everything there is to know about them , I will just need to know where to look to find out what I need to know..So thank goodness for the guys that are playing with them..

kraldmark

Just to practice more and more, or you may also ask some skilled friends to show you how to make it fly well.

jim billings

Ken: I appreciate your comments and suggestions but, like I said, I'm sold on the assistance provided by the Guardian. I still need to know how to determine the "level configuration" of an airplane. Can you help? (Thanks for your interest in my situation.)

Jim B.

Stormrider51

I see that this is a fairly old thread and probably everything that needs saying has been said. I'm still going to offer one observation. One of my other bad habits, I mean hobbies, is astronomy. Today we have computer assisted amateur telescopes. After a simple set up the computer will guide the scope to objects in the night sky that are invisible to the naked eye and do so with amazing accuracy. Old timers on the astronomy forums, who had to use star charts and learn to "star hop" to find those invisible objects, complain that newcomers will never really learn astronomy. How can they when the telescope does all the work? My answer to this is that the computerized scopes are bringing many more people to a hobby they would have never tried if they were requried to star hop in order to see anything more interesting than the Moon and whatever planets are currently visible in the night sky. It's true that many of them will never do more than use the scope to go on an automated tour of celestial objects but that's fine. It's all about enjoyment and fun.

I'm seeing the same sort of thing in RC flying. Many of those who learned to fly in the days before gyros, or things like the SAFE system now offered on the E-Flite Apprentice S, dislike the new technology. They say you will never really learn to fly with those gadgets. They say an instructor and stick time is the only way to go. My answer is much the same as above. If the new technology draws in more new fliers then the entire hobby benefits. And if those new fliers never want to do more than take their plane up and fly lazy circles in the air? So what? They're flying and having fun. That's what it's all about.

I taught myself to fly with a good simulator and an E-Flite Apprentice (not the new S model). Had the S been available I would have bought it. I've got some other planes in the hangar that I'll graduate to when I'm ready but if I never do whose nose is it skin off of?

Storm

jim billings

Storm:
I think you have a lock on human nature. Astronomy and telescopes (I made 4 mirrors when I was younger, 10 inches was the biggest) have always fascinated me so in my later years I bought a computer guided scope (10 inch.) On my first outing, I told the scope to goto Uranus. In a few seconds I was seeing a planet that has always eluded me when trying to use the star charts. I enjoy my automatic telescope.

I enjoy flying my airplanes when they do what I tell them to do and fly level when I don't tell them to do something. I have used the Guardian 2D mode while turned off and I can do loops, rolls, upside down, and a couple other moves without fear of losing control afterwards. I then switch 2D mode back on and have immediate control again. Landing is almost automatic. I obviously enjoy what I have and no amount of Old-timer wisdom is going to make me do different. Use stabilation. It works.

Now--- how do I determine the level configuration of the airplane?

Note: I'm 73 years of age, so maybe my advice could be deemed Old-timer wisdom? Or not?

Jim B.

Stormrider51

Jim,
Being a beginner myself I'm not sure I can offer much in the way of help with your question. I do have a few hundred hours in full scale planes though and maybe this will help. All planes will tend to climb from level flight when the throttle is increased. Increased throttle increases airspeed which increases lift and up you go unless you put in a bit of down elevator. What I do on my models is set all control surfaces even with whatever they are attached to, wings, stabilizer, or rudder. Then I take off and use the sticks to keep things from misbehaving until I get to a safe altitude. Then I center the sticks and click in trim adjustments until the plane maintains straight and level on its own. The throttle will still make the plane want to go up or down depending on how much power you apply but that's just something you anticipate and deal with manually.

John

jim billings

John:

I am positively a beginner in this hobby for about two and a half years, now. From all I could determine, the model should fly level at half throttle. The Guardian requires zeroing out the transmitter trim adjustments and ensuring the transmitter throws are at 100% (I interpret transmitter throws as end point adjustments.) I, like you, mechanically set all the control surfaces even with whatever they are attached to. The Guardian maintains proper yaw and roll even with poorly adjusted surfaces. But--a couple of my planes want to climb at half throttle so the Guardian is obviously in need of pitch adjustment. That adjustment requires that I have the plane in its "level configuration" before telling the computer to adjust and record everything (I use a small laptop running Windows XP to program the Guardian.) I've tried compensating after flying, but that is becoming a pain. I need a general way of determining the pitch (while it is at the bench) of a plane that will fly level at half throttle with no transmitter trim. Is it a line from the center of the propeller to the elevator, or the elevator is level, or the bottom of the wing (if it's flat) is level, or what? Or am I stuck with guessing? I am reluctant to but in on some forum and ask my questions. I don't want some "expert" to give me a ration of crapolla. But if that"s my only resort, I would gratefully appreciate any advice/suggestions.

Jim B.

Stormrider51

Jim,
You have skidded waay past what I know. Maybe you could call customer service at the folks who make the Guardian? I know what you mean about some other forums. I posted a thread on one which will not be named about how I taught myself to fly using a sim. It turned into a virtual fistfight between those who have done what I did and the ones who said it was impossible. I don't go there anymore.

John

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I guess after 43 years of flying RC with 6 years of control line before that, I think you really need to learn the basics before becoming enamored with bells and whistles. Over the years I have been honored/burden with flying many hundreds of other people's models. Most models tend to have multiple problems that prevent great performance. Just getting the radio installed with proper geometry of the control system is beyond many, and getting a well set-up fuel system that works well with the engine at any attitude is unusual. Assuming that today's typical flier achieves this, you then get to work on trimming the airplane. By this, I mean that you get the balance correct and the engine thrust line adjusted. Failure to do these basic steps are why so many have difficulty in flying even simple models.

I do think that stability augmentation systems have their place, but are just a distraction for 95% of sport flying. They do help the micro-sized model achieve dynamics similar to larger models, and in a twin could prevent loss when an engine fails.

I noticed many years ago that a significant percentage of sport fliers only fly with elevator and ailerons for the majority of their flights. Quite often they do not touch the throttle or rudder between the take-off and landing. Perhaps the best thing you can do to learn to fly a model is take flying lessons in a full size airplane. Most people can solo in under 10 hours, but you will learn how much there is to learn in that period, and what the rudder and ailerons really do in all facets of operation in the air and ground. Oddly enough, flying RC models also benefits full size pilots.

BTW, most full size general aviation aircraft are set-up more like the typical R/C trainer (both will fly themselves once trimmed), while more advanced models are quite different.

jim billings

I fly all electric. I don't do sport flying. I do fun flying. My biggest model has a 74 inch wing span. My smallest is a Rare Bear foamie park flyer. I do well with both except for that nagging propensity to climb when at half throttle. Maybe I'm being a stickler, but I'd still like to know how to determine the "level configuration" of a model airplane. That's all I want to know.

If I had umpteen years of flying experience, I would probably be advising someone such as I just as you are doing. I appreciate all the learning, adjusting, and flying advice I'm getting. But the fact still remains thatI still don't know how to determine level configuration so I can properly adjust the Eagle Tree Guardian.