shleprock

I've been working with a wonderful elderly student with earning his wings. His trouble is a lack of feeling in his fingers. We got him set up with a buddy box with expo and this helped a bunch with the flying once in the air. The take-off roll needs some help to get straight. He uses too much rudder or not enough on take-off. Also, he could use a bit of help with keeping wings level in a bit of cross-wind. Could a gyro help in these situations? If yes, what would you recommend for aircraft use? Thanks for looking.

koastrc

That is a great question. I would like to hear what some of these folks have on this. Teaching young folks is pretty easy. Older folks with all the older folks problems is a challenge at times. Never gave this idea any thought. The potential to solve problems is enormous and ingenious. Thanks!

Live Wire

I am one of the old ones[] I know how to fly and believe that if I needed a gyro to fly I better find a different hobby. Teaching some one with a gyro is just asking for bigger problems and may cause some one injury. Not worth taking the chances [:@] buddy box and back up is the only way in this hobby
May the battle begin

shleprock

He doesn't need a gyro to fly, he has done a few take-offs and landings without my intervention. I'm just looking for some help in stability/consistency. I know of a few folks that have them on jets and warbirds to aid in the take-off roll.

carrellh

Depending on the gyro and transmitter, some can have the heading hold feature activated with a switch for the takeoff roll and then turned off for the rest of the flight.

acerc

All the arguing over needing one or not needs to be put a side. Some people need just a little assistance. Whether it be the reflexes aren't what they use to be, or orientation, or sight. Nothing wrong with a little help. That being said, I would recommend an Eagle Tree Guardian. Put it on a switch and in 3D mode one can fly normal with a little bit of assistance and when one gets into trouble flip the switch to 2D mode and it will return the aircraft to straight and level flight, dissorientation over! Resume normal flight!

goirish

2nd that. I,m 76 and can't run the 100 in 10 flat anymore. Eyes need a little help, so why not get a little help for my planes so I can enjoy the hobby also.

red head

I only get older students anymore ( live in Florida ) and usually in the winter ( snowbirds ) so I know your pain and theirs.

I'm not sure about using a gyro so I won't say much, you may want to look into Horizon's Glasair with " safe " installed , I've read some on it and it could be useful but I think they would still need a backup ( buddy box ).

I have one older student ( 70 ? ) that also has a physical problem and I'm sure that he will never be able to fly on his own so I just let him fly with the buddy box and Enjoy the flight. I did find out that making him sit in a chair and keep the TX in his lap that his hands and body don't wonder around as much and he seems to have better control .

One other thing that may help is to try switching the students way they hold the sticks . Maybe the thumb method is better then the pinch method or vise versa , what ever works. ENJOY !!! RED

shleprock

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. I will look into the Eagle Tree gyro.

jester_s1

He probably needs more stick tension in the radio so he has a better feel for what he's doing. If he has any hand shaking issues a transmitter tray and switching to the pinch method will probably help him with that. For the original question, I'd definitely have him look into the Eagle Tree unit. This is not a guy who is going to try and compete in aerobatics or take the hobby to the nth degree. At his age, he just wants to get some fresh air and enjoy the time playing with airplanes. That's exactly the kind of pilot that the stability systems were made for, and with his physical limitations it will probably mean the difference between soloing and being a safe pilot on his own or remaining on the buddy box forever.

koastrc

I agree Jester. Perhaps a gyro system could be one more tool in the box to help folks along. I have helped all kinds of folks with what we would associate with disabilities. I have come to understand that if anyone has the desire and the can do spirit, I will do my best to help them. My club is like so many others. Some in the club could care less about helping anyone, but most go out of their way to help. We have done some very remarkable things over the years. Each person that comes out to join in have their problems. Some times these "problems" are not really problems. Most of the time it is something different. One of my best stories is the latest person that joined in. I struggled for over a year teaching this man. Many of those, what I call unhappy people, complained about me spending so much time with this fellow. The man is a very good pilot and dear friend now. I found out over time he had polio as a child and just living had been a life long struggle for him.
Over the years the membership has helped train many folks making all sorts of things. Transmitter trays to special chairs to sit in while flying and all sorts of things in between.
I did do something I was ashamed of. One of the new guys from some place else was getting irritated with me tying up the flight line with this old man. I tried to apologize and asked he try to be patience. The young man pressed and asked if I could even fly anything other than a trainer. I got mad, fired up the trainer and did a low inverted pass over the field with the trainer, we are talking the fin in the grass pass, whipped the thing around and knifed the thing less than a foot of the grass. The young man packed up and left. I proved that I was just as bad as some of those unhappy people. Moral of the story is we all have to give and take. I hope I can glean enough information about these gyro systems to do some good, and take away some good stuff.
Like always, Thank you all that share this great aviation hobby with others.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I've had two seniors (in their 70's) for students in the not too distant past. I told them I will stay with them as long as they wanted. They both ended up quitting after about a year of training. A gyro or auto pilot may have helped, I dont know. But both of them had really bad eye hand coordination. We never got to the point of learning to land to figure out if depth perception was going to be a problem. I'm not sure a device would solve that problem. They both gave up on their own, it was their decision. I was not going to get in the way of their dream to fly rc. In their case, it just wasnt ment to be. The sad thing on one of them, he was a private pilot that failed his physical and couldnt fly anymore. So he thought this was a good way to get his aviation fix. About 12 years ago I had a senior that could take off and fly around ok, but couldnt land to save his life. He was an ex-fighter jock from the Korean war days.
Edwin

HOT COALS

THE OLD SAYING ::  YOUR NEVER TO OLD TO LEARN A NEW TRICK. WHAT I USE TO DO ALL NIGHT , TAKES ALL NIGHT NOW.  I USE TO FLY FULL SCALE. AND RECENTLY SOLD MY EROCOUPE. I BEEN IN THE R. C. FOR MOST OF LIFE. AT MY AGE ( 75 ) I STILL CAN FLY VERY GOOD. NOW I HAVE A MEDICAL PROBLEM. ONE DAY I WAS FLYING, I HAD A MEDICAL PROBLEM. AND ALMOST LOST MY PLANE. HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR ANOTHER FLIER NEXT TO ME. ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN LOSTED. NOW WHEN I FLY, I HAVE A COPILOT NEXT TO ME, JUST IN CASE. ALL I CAN SAY !!!  THANKS GUYS FOR STICKING BY THIS OLD MAN.

goirish

Hey us old guys need to stick together.

shleprock

I would like to try more tension on the transmitter sticks. His radio doesn't allow easy adjustments for that. (futaba 6ex) My student is 84 and a former Air Force pilot. He has flown the B-29 converted to tanker and nearly all of the multi engine prop cargo planes. He flies the pattern quite well and has made more than a dozen decent landings without my intervention. I believe if we can straighten out the take off run a bit he could solo this summer.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

It sounds like he just needs a gyro on rudder. This is one of those cases where I would say go for it. Personally I would not set up a switch. A few years ago my dad wanted to join me on the IMAC field of battle. I would help him set up his airplane that included a rate switch for his spins. He hated the setup I had done for him so we had to come up with one that worked for him that did not involve switches. IMO in a case such as this a gyro would be a great idea, if teaching someone who has the capability and drive to get into advanced flying then I feel the gyro unnecessary.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I pretty much agree with everyone who has responded (as if that mattered) And do believe there are legitimate uses for these devices. I am delighted that we can now talk about it openly even in cases that may not really be related to training but perhaps just helping out folks who will always need some degree of help in flight.

Not to long ago when I first experimented with the single axis Hobbico in just one of my multi engine airplanes with much success it very much had to be kept under wraps or the macho factor from others would have been overwhelming.

Just recently I have been experimenting with both the futaba wireless buddy cord as well as some homebrew ones for my Hitecs and this has been very successfull and reported here in a thread at the beginner forum. There are some folks for many different reasons who may never really be able to solo in a normal fashion without some sort of help and I currently have two like this and been mentoring them for years actually. The wireless system has been fantastic in this situation as I have been able to leave them alone at the station and go on back to the peanut gallery fifty sixty feet away and still completely monitor his flight and take complete control any time, now there are certain models of futaba and Hitec transmitters that even will allow me to add some imput without ever letting the trigger go and the student never even knows it and in both cases the instructor can completely trim the airplane still with the trigger pulled.

The individual being alone sometimes especially for someone who has struggled long and hard has an undeniable physicological effect that is very positive an both of my long term gentlemen have shone considerable improvement just by being alone at the station, Go Figure.

Now I too suspect that a good three axis system can also be of use in these cases. I am currently experimenting with both the Orange and the Guardian systems for a cross country airplane but have not flown either yet but soon. I also am considering the guardian for certain of these gentlemen. So am most interested with other folks results.

John

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

100% agree, if there is help out there why not? Let the guy fly in whatever way he can

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I forgot to mention, this tuesday we have a Horizon rep coming to our field to demo a flight stabilization system on an Apprentice 15e. The 15e is probably the most used trainer by my students. Sadly, I wont be able to make it, gotta work.
Edwin

landeck

My Feedback: (1)

As of this summer I have been flying RC for 40 years. About 3 years ago I found that I was having trouble keeping tail dragers straight on takeoff. My reflexes had slowed down ( 71 years old) enough that short coupled tail draggers such as my Escapade 40 were getting hard to handle on takeoff. I tried a GY401 gyro on the rudder and it solved the problem. I got some static from the guys at the field but I continued to use it. Now I have either a GY401 or the new GYA430 on the rudder of all my tail draggers making my takeoff runs straight and safer. Just last week we had a discussion at the field and no longer did I hear guys putting down their use but some of the guys were actually interested in my setup. In the near future I expect to see others using them for rudder control for takeoffs.

Bruce

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

what kind of plane is the guy flying tail dragger or nose gear nose gear might help him better iam 81 and still going strong

shleprock

We are using the 125 size Pulse from H9. I know, not a trainer. To be honest, he does much better with the big Pulse than his 40 size trainer. Much easier to see and it's more stable in the air. He was a bit all over the place with the trainer on take off, too. Once the plane veers a bit left or right, he has a hard time to get it corrected without overdoing it.

Chris Nicastro

My Feedback: (3)

Im helping a friend of mine with his plane and he installed a 3 Axis Gyro on it. I maidened the plane and trimmed it out for him yesterday. Its a high wing trainer, LiPo powered, and nice and big, red and white great high visibility stable flyer.
He didnt actually tell me this plane was set up with the gyro until after I took off for some reason. I remembered he said he was putting a plane together with this set up but didnt realize this was the one, I was deep into programming issues on an on-board glow driver. Anyway the gain on the gyros was low but functioning. Once in the air the plane felt very stable and set on course. The winds were light so I didnt perceive any assistance from the gyros. He didnt fly it yesterday due to a charger issue and a CG adjustment required but this will be a great plane for him to keep up on stick time. I'll dig up exactly which plane this was as I dont recall at the moment.

So in my opinion where and when the gyros help is on windy days otherwise a well trimmed out and balanced plane doesnt need this. On calm days with a high wing trainer type like a Kadet, Eagle, etc, you shouldnt have a very highly responsive plane and or set up, should be pretty mellow. However when the wind picks up these planes can get pretty sporty and kite like so this is when a 3 axis gyro set will help out.

mike109

G'day

I have recently been teaching an older bloke and one who uses a wheel chair and a few years ago I was teaching a younger person with cerebral palsy. All of them were able to fly but all had difficulties. The younger bloke had been using "normal" 46 size trainers and not really getting anywhere. The other two were newbies.

I used a Sig Kadet Senior to teach them. The kit built version. No ailerons. This version of the Kadet has its own built in stability system especially if the C of G is towards the front of the recommended range. The one I used has a trike undercarriage so it tracks well so long as it takes off directly into the wind.

I now suggest the Kadet to anyone who is having problems. It would be interesting to put a gyro into it but I think I would have to connect the aileron roll sensor to the rudder as it is the rudder that causes the Kadet to roll as well as yaw. The downside of the Kadet is that it only comes as a kit and so must be built from a pile of sticks.

Cheers

Mike in Oz

RCFlyerDan

My Feedback: (54)

I have taught a lot of elderly students down here in Florida. LOL>>>>wonder why? Anyway, things that I have found that need to be looked at with elderly students, are: When was their last eye check up? Do they have cateracts? Do they have diabetis? If they haven't had an eye check for a year, refuse to fly with them, until their eyes have been checked. I had one elderly student, that has now passed, that I was working with for several years. I like him a lot, and just figured that I would be on the buddy box for him until he passed. Well, he had his eyes checked, and he had cateracts. Had them removed, and soloed in 3 flights. Health plays a big issue, so I would start there. After the eyes are checked and ok, then go to the Hobbico "auto pilot" that they use in the Nexstar. I hate them, but they work. Good Luck! Dan