dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Digital servos with high torque capabilities are required for 3D where the surfaces are very large.
Digitals do have a better torque curve .with some exceptions.
I have seen fellows get the best digital servos then waste them with high expo on the transmitter.
I have tested JRs most expensive servo and its torque curve was no better than a 3003. But it had 0 us deadband. That meant it would jitter at neutral and waste your battery.
Futaba and Hitec had very good torque curves and about 3us deadband. I think this ideal.
I tested several servos for RCU. They paid me but never published it.
I think some of the advertisers didnt like my results.If you would like to see some of my results PM me after 1 Sept. I am now on vacation.

harttvboy04

My Feedback: (32)

For what it's worth, I am VERY anal about servos. I have had servos fail on me, but in retrospect it seems to me that they failed because I was asking too much of them. Putting 3003's, 4's or otherwise with plastic gears in a plane with either a powerful 4 stroke or gasoline 2/4 stroke is asking too much, primarily if they are on primary flight surfaces. I am building a top flite mustang 60 with dle 20. I am using metal gears on the elevator, rudder and ailerons (savox 0251's, and 0255's) . I am using power hd 6001's on the flaps as they are pretty strong, and they are my test of plastic gears on gasoline planes. If cash is an issue for good holding power that will stand up to vibes, here you have the answer.

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items/HD-1501MG.html

These have better internal support than most hitecs, and put out like crazy. And, at 14 something dollars you can not go wrong. I put these in my 1/4 cub. 250 flights later I sold the cub, and these still center just as we'll as I'd expect an analog to center. The only down side - when you make power, you use power. Make sure you have a decent batter for ANY torqeuy servos. On 3D planes, electric, gas or otherwise, my planes get nothing but high speed digital metal gear servos, and more lately I have been buying titanium gear servos.

Moral of my story - if you plan on flying with a .91 four stroke, 3004's will work. Since the difference in price is negligible, I'd just go for the 3004's over the 3003's. on the other hand, anything bigger than a .91 four stroke, in my opinion, should get beefier servo. I realize that people have been using weaker servos in the past for long periods of time - but no one can argue that today's servos offer better strength and reliability. If the technogy is there and has been proven more reliable, why not use it?

FWIW, the Spektrum DS821 is a great servo when used properly. Too much load has been known to sheer the heads of those servos though, since people push them too hard I'm most cases.

Not all digital servos are created equal. Only you will know how much you want in terms of centering, torque, weight, etc. once you narrow down your choices, spend an hour and compare the specs on paper. Once you select a servo on paper run to google and see how people feel about theirs. I once purchased hitec 6635hb's thinking they would be good. As it turns out, they are terrible centering servos and barely break 100oz. Torque. Totally worthless for me.

Hope that helps you!

Chris

bob8619

analog FTW

dogshome

A tough crowd on here Bob It is only a 60 size plane (a small 60 at that too)!

Let us know how she flies!

bob8619

Yeah I am wondering how many people who said go digital even read what size plane this is for LOL. Other than the rudder and flaps, all the throws are under an inch, surely that means something

2walla

My Feedback: (10)

It isnt that big a plane. The 3003 will be fine. Back in the day i had a 1/4 nosen citabria that had a single 148 futaba per surface, 45 degrees of throw on everything and it flew over 1000 flights before i got scared and split the elevator and added a second elevator servo. People get way too hung up on having digital servos and 300 oz of torque just because they can buy it.

SkidMan

My Feedback: (17)

Then they call everyone else irresponsible for not doing the same.

Two years ago a member of our club that used to win advanced IMAC competitions had his old competition plane out at the field. Thinking I might learn something I looked and asked him what servos he was using. Boy was I surprised that they were Futaba 3004's. Even though he hadn't competed in recent years he proceeded to put that heavy old plane powered by a G62 through its paces. I'm certainly no IMAC judge but I do wish I could fly like he flew that plane.

Lesson - Good pilots can make inexpensive equipment look amazing.

The reverse is true too - High dollar gear isn't necessarily going to help poor pilot.

60-sized warbird? Fly what you can afford and have fun.

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

Bob. I am going to build the new hanger 9 p47 v-1.as for servos I would not worry if you an analog .there are good ones out there just make sure you have ample torque once inches.as for ditigal I admit I started swaping out analogs but mostly because my style of aerobatic flying really works better with digitals.they hold center far better than analogs and thats critical for my manuvers.but with the 60 size warbird you can comfortably use analogs for general flying but if cost is an issue dont worry use the analogs just decide if you want plastic gears or metal or even titanium.but when you can afford some digitals go for it.I just tried some Dsk excellent response.

yosephwhite

My Feedback: (34)

I always go with more torque.... Digital or analog is not nearly as important to me as enough torque and a strong gear train. Remember if more force is applied to a lower torque servo there is a higher chance of a stripped gear and a loss of control. Just my 2 cents.

kiwibob72

Re the E-Flite electric retracts, no, you don't need a separate battery for the retracts, as those specific retracts draw next to nothing, and have a built in fail safe to stop them if they jam (killing the current) until they are re-cycled the other way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_s0vFIvfjo
I'd still "personally" run a twin receiver battery redundancy system on that model, but that's just me. You would still need a separate battery for the FG21 motor though.

spd101

I always go with hitec servos and have not had an issue in 15 years, but as we all know it only takes one time lol all my models are on 6volts also

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

The only real consideration of whether or not you need digital servos is the frame rate of the radio you are using. If you have it set up to run at the 11 mS frame rate, then you have to use digitals since analog servos have a pulse stretcher configured for 22-28 mS frame rates. Otherwise, it doesn't matter too much for your particular application.

gjhinshaw

My Feedback: (303)

If you are going glow than standard servos or OK...... Now..... If you are going to put a gasser in it? If "GAS" you can still run standard servos BUT this time you must use "Metal Gear" servos as with all the vibrations it will kill those plastic gears. Remember its a WAR BIRD, Not a 3D plane! Digitals aren't all that, just tons of money, but I do have to say they are coming down on price.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Actually again the reverse is true. Since plastic is less brittle they stand up better to vibration than metal. Metal gears will provide more strength, but they will get sloppy and have to be replaced.
Every metal gear server that I have disassembled has had the first gear made of plastic. Could it be that the manufacturers have found that plastic stands up better there?

bob8619

That makes sense dirtybird.

So 4 stroke gassers produce a lot more vibration than a 4 stroke glow? How come?

[email protected]

My Feedback: (29)

Stay away from the Saito gasses. They are week on the power

bob8619

Compared to what?

[email protected]

My Feedback: (29)

That's what I herd and read the reviews on RCU. I have owned a few saitos.
Most guys are using DL 20cc. That's what I have in my TF P-47D 60 size .
Vally View 20cc I like better then the DL. Cheeper too. Running that in a Great Planes Super Chipmunk
If price is not a problem then go with a Molki 4 stroke .

[email protected]

My Feedback: (29)

If you are needing a saito Charlie has two for sale in Moyock NC. He has a plane on there with a Saito. Also has one new in the box you can grab.
Don't mistake me on the saito. They are running clocks , so I was surprised to here they are dogs

jetmech05

I think you need to look at the price of those servos or the torque you were looking at. 140 dollar servo is or should be a monster somewhere in the 300plus or more torque range. You can get HiTec 5645s for around 50 and that is before a bulk discount some places give.
As far as a 20CC on a .60 sized plane that is way over powered.
Id run a 120 4 stroke burning cool power 15% 2 stroke fuel. that'll give you all the speed you want. not as cheap as gas. Just food for thought

harttvboy04

My Feedback: (32)

The first gear being made of plastic is done for a number of different reasons - the first being to remove the slop the most of us complain about in metal gear servos (or at least attempt to remediate that effect over time).

The above quoted statement is simply not true. Brittle in the sense that the do not flex prior to breakage, yes, but your statement eludes to show that plastic gears are actually more durable than metal for the application of servo gears. I have not broken the metal gears of a servo *yet*. I do doubt that I will though.

PLEASE DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE ABOVE QUOTED POST.

There is not any way that a plastic gear will hold up to more abuse than a metal gear. If someone is able to produce a side by side test (video) showing a metal gear servo breaking before a nylon/plastic/karbonite gear servo with equal load and shock, please share.

Now, Honestly, what the OP was asking about was what servos make sense in his application and if it was ok not to use the digitals recommended by the manufacturer.

I feel most would agree - if using glow under the size of a small block Chevy, plastic gears should be fine. But with gasoline, on a small airframe with nothing else to absorb the vibrations then it is important to consider other materials used to produce servo gears. Metal gears happen to be widely available at reasonable prices. The beautiful thing about this hobby is the almost unlimited number of options when it comes to equipment, hence my prior post about looking at the specs of the recommended servo and comparing that to the servos you are considering. Chances are anything you pick will work, so long as it is a standard servo. My prior recommendations will simply help you in the future, since higher torque and durability can't be a bad thing in this scenario. Hell, the OP might love the .60 size so much he/she wants to get into the Hangar 9 30cc Thunderbolt. Then, he/she could simply move his/her servos into that bigger bird and not worry about torque, metal vs plastic, ETC.

To the point on the large IMAC plane with the G-62 -

I am glad that worked out great! It goes to show that the Futaba 3000 series is in fact a good servo. The truth is, really, that there is nothing wrong with having extra insurance in what is proving to be a more durable material. I am convinced after losing a couple planes to either stripped plastic or sheared off nylon gears to make and support the statement.

To the OP - Your 3003's should work fine. I would recommend a beefier servo on the elevator and rudder, since one is a crucial surface and the other routinely comes into contact with the ground and the shock forces associated.

Please, let us not bash those of us who take advantage of the technology available for SAFETY REASONS. Just because a 'large IMAC plane with a g-62' flew with 3004's does not mean that by today's standards that is a good idea! That statement is almost like saying that modern tires are no better than tires produced 20 years ago. The statement would simply be untrue, and even if those tires were still available it would not justify their use...

Can we try and keep to the facts for the OP's ease of decision making? I remember being in those shoes - we should be glad that this person is asking prior to making what could be (but in this case is not) a bad decision.

Best,

Chris

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Please pay attention to what I said. Plastic gears will hold up better to vibration. I did not say they will hold up better to abuse.
Please explain how that first plastic gear can counteract the slop that metal gears will develop.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Go with analog. They are perfectly suitable. The digitals require more battery, and it is not necessary for this plane.

kiwibob72

Not true.
We are only talking a 1.20ci motor after all, and people have been stuffing 1.20 four stroke nitros into '60's for years. These newer style high detail H9 "60 sized" warbirds like this new P47 razorback and the older P51 blue nose actually list 20cc gas options as being suitable (my own H9 P51 lists the instructions for fitting a Saito FG20 (cc) gas motor in the instructions, and the Horizon Hobby promo vid for this new H9 P47 is showing a 20cc Evolution gasser powered model). My own P51 fitted the DLE20 quite well inside the cowl, and that specific motor actually weigh's less than the spec'ed FG20 4 stroke gasser.
In fact, the DLE20 is proving quite popular in "60" sized P47's as it fits fully inside those large cowl's (just have a look on you tube), and it's also cheap to buy, powerful, and cheap to run. It makes even more sense then you look up the expected flying weight of both the 60 sized H9 Blue nose mustang, and this new P47 razorback - they are both fat, and thus need the extra power.
To me a 20cc gasser in those size warbirds is one of the better options out there.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Here is my .60 sized FW 190 Pica kit with a DLE 20. It is a perfect combo. Just sayin'