Stormrider51

I've been flying RC for about 3 months so everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm also someone who did what a few pilots with much more experience said couldn't be done. I taught myself to fly successfully. I did so by using one of the better simulators (Phoenix 4) and using it to its best advantage. I spent at least 20 hours "flying" the simulated version of the plane I had purchased, an Apprentice 15e. It did not have the SAFE system. I took the time to change the weather settings so that I was flying in higher winds and different wind directions. In other words, I tried to make it as realistic as possible. It must have worked because I still have the Apprentice although it doesn't get flown much.

What does get flown are my ultra-micro planes that have AS3X (Aritficial Stabilization 3 Axis) and that's really the subject of this post. I'm hoping that my experience can keep someone else from crashing their new plane. I went from the Apprentice to a micro Champ and J-3 Cub. Then I moved on to a 44" wingspan model of the WW-I British S.E. 5a fighter and one of its German opponents the Albatros D5a. Both are great flying planes. But my lifelong dream has been to fly the British Spitfire and wouldn't you know it, my LHS had one in stock. It was the PZ ultra-micro version of the Spitfire Mk-9 and included the AS3X system. It said "Just Fly" on the box. The model is highly detailed and beautiful so it went home with me. In the weeks since I've added the UMX Carbon Cub, P-40 Warhawk, and P-51 Mustang. All have the AS3X.

Let me tell you what the AS3X does and doesn't do. What it does is smooth out air turbulence and help the pilot maintain a course and attitude in wind conditions that ultra-micros normally don't fly in. What it does not do is guarantee that you won't crash. Unlike the SAFE system which is supposed to prevent you from crashing, if you point the nose at the ground the AS3X will dutifully assist you in maintaining that course and attitude until the plane hits terra firma. Pull a stall at too low an altitude and you will crash. The AS3X never overrides control inputs as the SAFE system is said to do. That's a big difference and one that leads me to say that these aren't beginners planes despite the "Just Fly" advertising. If you buy one as a beginner and take it out to fly with no training or assistance I can almost guarantee you will crash. The planes are relatively fast and very maneuverable so you need to know what you are doing. Learn and gain experience on bigger planes before you tackle these birds.

Having said all the above, let me add that I love these planes for a number of reasons. First, I'm a scale aircraft fan. These look like planes I've dreamed of flying all my life. I can fly them in a scale-like manner which is good because they don't have the power of 3-D planes. (The Carbon Cub uses a different motor and battery and will do some pretty good aerobatics.) Second, they don't break the bank to purchase. Third, I love the look on the faces of guys at the field when I fly in wind conditions they say I can't fly such tiny planes in. Last, I can load all four planes into my truck and transport them to the field with room to spare. The field I have available is grass and not always well mowed so I just slip the landing gear off the planes, hand launch them and belly them into the grass at the end of the flight. Bottom line, they are one heck of a lot of fun but I'm glad I didn't start with one.

John

Charlie P.

It makes a model more stable - but will not correct for errors. I have two models so equipped and they fly very well.

A purpose-designed trainer without AS3X will be a better learning model than a small foam neutral model with AS3X. The trainer has at least some inherent stability designed in and can be landed with easy throttle management.

carl24bpool

I'd lose sight of these micro planes after 100 yards. I guess you have to keep them close.

Stormrider51

The field we have available to us is about 100 yards X 200 yards and is owned by the school district. The field is bordered by the school bus barn on one side, a fairly busy road on the other, and buildings at the far end. The agreement with the school district is that we will not fly over buildings or vehicles. So if I'm standing at the normal flying position at one end I only have about 50 yards to the left and and another 50 to the right. I'm facing the length of the field. I estimate I allow the little planes to get about 100 yards out. That's about the same distance I let my +/- 44" biplanes get to. Given that I'm usually doing loops, rolls, and spins or making low level strafing passes down the runway I seldom let them get far away. Except when chasing buzzards. Don't tell the SPCA but low flying buzzards make irresistable "targets". All of us "attack" them when they come over. One time I chased the bogie with my P-40 far enough that I realized I couldn't tell if the plane was flying toward or away from me. I had a moment of panic but then put the plane into a steep left bank and let it circle. The underside of the plane is grey while the upper is dark camo. When I saw the flash of grey I reversed the bank and leveled out knowing the plane was flying toward me. A few seconds later I could see the bright red prop spinner. Then the battery got low and the motor shut down so that I got to make a long distance landing and hike out to recover the plane. I got the plane turned into the wind and let the AS3X do the rest. It kept the wings level while the plane settled into the grass. I doubt I could have done as well given the distance.

John

jetmech05

Good for you I'm glad you're having fun and are successful.
Self taught is by no means the best avenue to travel down.

Stormrider51

I think there is a change taking place in RC flying. Like all changes, this one has met with disapproval by many who learned differently using different technology. I see this at the flying field. There are veteran fliers who don't trust the 2.4 Ghz radios. At least one guy told me I couldn't be successful going it alone. I'm saying this as a 62 year old whose favorite rifle is a flintlock. The development of simulators like the Phoenix 4 that actually simulate the flight characteristics of various real world models, stability enhancing electronics, and the popularity of "park flier" models are driving the change. My original intent was to use an instructor but I live in a small town and the local instructor and I could never seem to make our schedules match up. After a few weeks of this and many hours on the sim, I decided to go it on my own. I made mistakes that an instructor would probably have caught and corrected. The difference between the battery compartments on my S.E. 5a and Albatros, for instance. The two velcro straps that hold the battery in place on the S.E. 5a do the job because the compartment itself is such that the battery can't slide around. The Albatros has the same straps but the compartment is different and open at the rear. On the first flight the battery slid to the rear changing the CG and forcing me to make a hard landing that broke the lower wing and landing gear. That compartment now has velcro in it and the battery does too. They call it "experience" and we can get it from others who have more or we can get it the hard way. Or, in this new century, we can apparently get at least some of it from simulators.

John

AMA 74894

My Feedback: (1)

you're absolutely correct, OF COURSE it's possible to teach yourself how to fly (as you and many others before you have done... even in the days before simulators)
and yes, one thing that has never changed about RC is that it ALWAYS is changing!
RE the 'Just Fly' advertising... just fly... no BUILDING... it doesn't say 'just LEARN to fly' (it's assumed you know how to fly...)
the advertising is pointed to folks who used to have to BUILD, THEN fly

I realize the subject (teach yourself to fly) has been beaten to death and I won't address that part here, but there is one thing teaching yourself will not teach you:
field rules and etiquette (again, I'm NOT saying you NEED to join a club or fly at an 'approved field' but if you ever do, imagine this example)
you want to learn how to play golf, without a pro, or instructor. you DO learn how to play golf.
then you go out to the local golf course and get reamed for not following the 'rules' (playing through, yelling 'FORE' etc etc...)
you may know how to fly, but may or may not ever learn how to fly at an 'approved' (or club) field.

carl24bpool

I would of thought that most people who want to self teach (like myself) start out with no intention of joining a club or they would in the first place. The main skill to learn is the flying. Etiquette is just knowledge and can be learnt in a couple of trips to a field without problem and besides as long as you show willing and common sense nobody is going to beat you down for making an honest mistake.

I self taught and thought I wold never join a club but I find myself now in a situation where its difficult to find a decent place to fly safely. Also all my local fields are not being mown as frequently as I'd like so take offs can be difficult at times and my plane looks more like a strimmer than a plane.

Anyway I'm at a point where I need to decide to join the club or not, Still can;t decide whether I want to become part of the politics and cliques that there is with any club.

jetmech05

Ok let me clear things up a bit. I'm glad it works for you. But self taught is not the best avenue to travel. For everyone like you I bet there are 50 that don't succeed.
A sim is just a sim, real life is different.
so for all those that are thinking of getting into this great hobby self taught is not the best way.
by the way I fly 2.4

Stormrider51

jetmech05...I didn't intend to take a potshot at you. I was just observing changes I see happening. The sims like the Phoenix 4, which I single out only because it's the one I'm familiar with, are head and shoulders above what has existed in the past. I also pointed out that I took as full an advantage of the simulator as possible by flying only the Apprentice plus I increased the challenge in terms of weather conditions. I used a structured approach to learning. I did the same when I moved up to the S.E. 5a. It's available on the Phoenix 4 sim and I "flew" it extensively before I ever took the actual model up. When I flew the model I got only two surprises. The model requires less throttle than the simulated one and the sim doesn't account for the roughness of the grass field I fly from. I learned to give full up elevator and advance the throttle very slowly to prevent a nose over in the real world.

As for being one out of fifty who can do this, I disagree provided the others do things the way I did. I'm nothing more than average by anyone's measure. All I did was take a patient structured approach to learning using the latest available technology. I didn't run out and launch a plane into the air with no preparation and no experience of any sort. I did try to use an instructor but it reached a point where "Plan B" seemed the only option. My original post was intended to point out the difference between the supposed capabilities of the SAFE system and those of the AS3X with which I have experience. I don't know if the SAFE system works or not. I have no experience with it. I know the AS3X does work but does not prevent a crash by taking over control when the pilot goofs. It allows an ultra micro to be flown in wind conditions heretofore considered impossible.

John

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Well John, I don't condone the chasing of birds by anyone, so I am forwarding your contact info and this thread to the Texas SPCA.

Stormrider51

Crap! I'm in trouble now! I will solemnly swear that I am the only member of our little group who ever chased a buzzard. After all, we aren't an officially sanctioned club. Just a bunch of rebels flying from a grass field in the boonies. But I'm the only one nefarious enough to actually buzz a buzzard. It was me, I tell ya!

John

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Well, I looked at their web site. Too much effort to submit anything, so you are off the hook. Though that type of bird is among the 900 or so species that have federal protection. And big fines. Even picking up a dead one and taking it home can get you fined.

Stormrider51

Too darned ugly to take home, even if I shot one down.

John

siberianhusky

Way to go! Love hearing about the successes of other self taught renegade no club pilots.
My 200 acre flying site if FAR FAR better than what the clubs around here have to offer, nothing but the odd cow to crash into.
One club is surrounded by hydro wires and runs right beside a busy roadway, the other you only have access at certain times.
Too windy to fly, there is also a shooting range at my spot! Also not available to the public.

GerKonig

You are OK, we determined it was a ilegal buzzard. We deported it!

On another note, on our filed we have sometimes some hawk-like birds and in rare instances they tried to approach my models. I normally make a run for it, and they cease and desist. They look big, but my giant stick with a 20" prop could cause a lot of damage to the misinformed bird... Maybe they are FAA birds...

Gerry

Stormrider51

I had a red-tailed hawk make a determined effort to catch my ultra micro Spitfire. Gave me a chance to see how good my aerobatics really are. The bird persisted until I flew the plane back toward myself. As they got closer the hawk must have seen me and broke off the pursuit. It was the most exciting flight I've had to date.

John

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

Well at our field we don't chase birds........ We chase cows.
See our neighbor is a farmer and at this point the barb wire fence was broken, well two cows came to eat our grass, of course it was greener, to get them out we chased them with the planes
No animal or machine was harmed

redbiscuits

My Feedback: (6)

{{{{{ I live pretty close, PM me if you ever need help. I know all the guys you fly with at the bus-barn. I choose to fly in Austin at a sanctioned field though because of the obstacles at your preferred flying site.

Gary

Stormrider51

Thanks, Gary. I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it. I'm retired and often go fly during the week when no one is around. Sunday mornings lately have been getting crowded out there!

John

thepamster

The point of this hobby or any is to enjoy yourself. It sounds like you are doing that and that is what counts reguardless how you achieved it. Nice job.
Don't chase any more birds though as I know you would feel terrible if you actually hit one and had to watch it flopping on the ground injured.

toolmaker7341

Back in the 50's-60's everyone taught themselves to fly. You started with a high wing at 5 lbs. with lots of dihedral with an .09-.15 size engine balanced,checked insidance,did test glides,trimmed for best glide then did short hops from a hand launch. Not like today where you start out with a .40 power rocket that would have won the nats back then. Thats why you need all kinds of help now. Anyone can teach themselves to fly but not with todays trainers. My hats off to those that teach themselves!

carl24bpool

I think there is a lot to be said for getting educated first and making use of simulators. If you can fly on a simulator and make a dozen successful landings then there's nothing standing in your way in the real world as long as the plane is correctly setup and checked. I can't stress enough the 6 P's.Pi$$ poor planning = Pi$$ poor performance. In this hobby it also equals a whole pile of balsa and ply.

redbiscuits

My Feedback: (6)

The club I belong to, Austin Radio Control Association. has over a 100 members, but when I go out to the club on a Sunday, many times there is the same 5-6 guys having a good time. We all take turns going up, and the sky rarely has more than two planes up at the same time.
If you ever want to accompany me as a guest pilot, give me a shout.
http://www.austinrc.org/

Gary

Stormrider51

Thanks and I appreciate the offer. Right now I'm happy flying from the field I have access to. I'm hearing impaired (Meniere's Disease) so being around groups of people often doesn't work well. My plan is to eventually buy 10 or so acres of pasture land and set it up as a flying field and site for an astronomical telescope.

John